J.C on immigration cooking the retiree frog....

[fhickson]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

I was recommended an agent by a friend who has used him for several years, and used him again this year, despite the new visa laws.

 

I contacted him for the same service and paid 25,000 baht, all included.

 

This whole system seems to be designed, and allowed, to make money for immigration and / or their friends and family agents, but as it circumvents to law, it's completely illegal, and the rug can be pulled out from under me, my friend, and anyone else who has used an agent, at anytime. 

 

This is why my Plan B is firmly in place. 

is it subject to possible jail time and fines, or just a blacklist or visa cancellation?

[MeePeeMai]

1 hour ago, tabarin said:

Believe you get like 10-15 years after 2 years marriage in Indonesia too. At least that makes sense.

If you have been married to an Indonesian for 10 years or more and then you get divorced (or she passes away), you are free to continue to live in Indonesia for the rest of your life. 

 

I wasn't always this way though, about 15-20 years ago it was an annual thing for foreign males married to Indonesian women to go through the visa nightmare (same as here) but they had a much different set of rules (much less restrictions and longer stay etc) for foreign women married to Indonesian men which was discriminatory in nature.

 

Indonesian wives (married to foreign men) formed a group and began to petition and lobby the government and Immigration, as well as starting many public forums and websites to pressure the governmental agencies to change the laws and make it more sensible and easier for their husbands to live and work in Indonesia (to support their "families" there) and not have to visit Immigration every year etc.

 

Over the course of several years, and after many news articles and TV interviews etc. the laws were changed and became more favorable for the husbands of Indonesian women thus making it much easier and less hassle for them to live and work in Indonesia.

 

Sadly, due to the current political situation in Thailand, the laws (as well as the attitude of the Thai women towards making noise while addressing their concerns), we know that this will probably never play out here.

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, fhickson said:

is it subject to possible jail time and fines, or just a blacklist or visa cancellation?

Take your pick.

 

It could be none, one, or all of the above, and things can change at any time. 

 

We all know it's been going on for years, but this is the first time I have used this method.  I was lucky I had some time to sit back and see what happens.  When I saw agents were still continuing to operate, and zero enforcement for this method, it become an option.

 

This is why I have my Plan B well and truly sorted. 

[fhickson]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

Take your pick.

 

It could be none, one, or all of the above, and things can change at any time. 

 

We all know it's been going on for years, but this is the first time I have used this method.  I was lucky I had some time to sit back and see what happens.  When I saw agents were still continuing to operate, and zero enforcement for this method, it become an option.

 

This is why I have my Plan B well and truly sorted. 

feels like one step away from a fake visa or messing with a passport. also opens up a whole can of worms where a thai agent has control over things and could potentially turn on you.

 

ill do the plan b before an agent, esp in a country where i dont have many legal rights.

 

 

[Leaver]

15 minutes ago, fhickson said:

feels like one step away from a fake visa or messing with a passport. also opens up a whole can of worms where a thai agent has control over things and could potentially turn on you.

 

ill do the plan b before an agent, esp in a country where i dont have many legal rights.

 

 

It's been going on for decades.

 

Apparently, I must have a seasoned 800,000 baht in the bank.  ????

 

It's a real visa, just obtained with false information, submitted by the agent. 

 

I had the time to sit back and see what the 90 day report and produce your bank book was going to do to these people.  The agents take care of this as well.

 

They have made using an agent so easy for a reason, and that is to push people in that direction, because it's worth hundreds of millions of baht to corrupt immigration officials.

 

This is why I would not be surprised if in the future there is an announcement that no Embassy letters will be accepted, even if your Embassy still issues them, or, they raise the 800,000 baht to 1.2 million baht, or more.  Thus, more using agents, and more corrupt money to immigration officials. 

 

The time may come, if not already, where if you do things the right way here, you will be given grief, and if you use an agent, it's plain sailing. 

 

I've had my Plan B in place way before these visa law changes, it's just these changes had made me consider my Plan B a lot more seriously since they have been introduced, and even more so if compulsory insurance is implemented.

[jayceenik]

I did watch the contentious (with most TV posters on this thread) VDO. The vloger is right on target. Unfortunately.

Except that I didn't hear him mention the latest Immigration requirement.

The one about having to show your bank book updated every three months. in person, to verify that you're keeping the 800/400k needed for your extension.

Soon to be followed no doubt by a request for more bank letters certifying the amounts in the book.

 

Add to that annoyance that we have two houses (in TGF's name but paid by me) in the same province and theoretically! she must file a new TM30 every time we go spend time in one or the other.

 

The 800k in the bank don't bother me. It's money for the TGF when I die anyway.

And the IO said we can now do the 90-day reporting online.

But the TM30 and the bankbook thing are a real pain.

Add that if they ever require a Health Insurance for Extensions I'll have to leave because I'm too old to qualify for one.

Leaving behind TGF, car, motocy, houses, land (bought in TGF's name of course).

 

Yes. When I decided to retire in Thailand years back it was good to do so. Now I regret not to have moved to South America instead.

Too late for me. I do feel like the unfortunate proverbial frog.

 

[Leaver]

On 11/24/2019 at 4:31 PM, jayceenik said:

Add that if they ever require a Health Insurance for Extensions I'll have to leave because I'm too old to qualify for one.

If they implement an insurance policy requirement for extensions, they will just be junk policies that will be expensive, but practically cover nothing. 

 

It will just be a money making scheme.  

[Leaver]

On 11/23/2019 at 6:06 AM, fhickson said:

sounds like his vids are tour guide oriented for subscribers in country. that would encroach on thai jobs in a big way with that many subscribers.

I thought it was more pitched at the expat retiree community.

[Leaver]

On 11/23/2019 at 7:13 PM, MeePeeMai said:

If you have been married to an Indonesian for 10 years or more and then you get divorced (or she passes away), you are free to continue to live in Indonesia for the rest of your life. 

 

I wasn't always this way though, about 15-20 years ago it was an annual thing for foreign males married to Indonesian women to go through the visa nightmare (same as here) but they had a much different set of rules (much less restrictions and longer stay etc) for foreign women married to Indonesian men which was discriminatory in nature.

 

Indonesian wives (married to foreign men) formed a group and began to petition and lobby the government and Immigration, as well as starting many public forums and websites to pressure the governmental agencies to change the laws and make it more sensible and easier for their husbands to live and work in Indonesia (to support their "families" there) and not have to visit Immigration every year etc.

 

Over the course of several years, and after many news articles and TV interviews etc. the laws were changed and became more favorable for the husbands of Indonesian women thus making it much easier and less hassle for them to live and work in Indonesia.

 

Sadly, due to the current political situation in Thailand, the laws (as well as the attitude of the Thai women towards making noise while addressing their concerns), we know that this will probably never play out here.

Interesting post.  I agree, there is nothing Thai women with foreign husbands can do.

 

I'm wondering what percent of married expats that want to leave / have to leave will be followed by their Thai wife.  

 

Maybe, for most expats that leave, Thailand loses two people.

[beautifulthailand99]

On 11/23/2019 at 10:43 AM, Leaver said:

It's been going on for decades.

 

Apparently, I must have a seasoned 800,000 baht in the bank.  ????

 

It's a real visa, just obtained with false information, submitted by the agent. 

 

I had the time to sit back and see what the 90 day report and produce your bank book was going to do to these people.  The agents take care of this as well.

 

They have made using an agent so easy for a reason, and that is to push people in that direction, because it's worth hundreds of millions of baht to corrupt immigration officials.

 

This is why I would not be surprised if in the future there is an announcement that no Embassy letters will be accepted, even if your Embassy still issues them, or, they raise the 800,000 baht to 1.2 million baht, or more.  Thus, more using agents, and more corrupt money to immigration officials. 

 

The time may come, if not already, where if you do things the right way here, you will be given grief, and if you use an agent, it's plain sailing. 

 

I've had my Plan B in place way before these visa law changes, it's just these changes had made me consider my Plan B a lot more seriously since they have been introduced, and even more so if compulsory insurance is implemented.

I have heard that 2 banks in Pattaya provide the books and statements to make sure the paperwork is ahem correct. Sounds almost to be an industrial process by all accounts. Maybe 'Big Joke' stepped on a few toes of what must be a very lucrative industry. 

[Leaver]

On 11/29/2019 at 7:10 PM, beautifulthailand99 said:

I have heard that 2 banks in Pattaya provide the books and statements to make sure the paperwork is ahem correct. Sounds almost to be an industrial process by all accounts. Maybe 'Big Joke' stepped on a few toes of what must be a very lucrative industry. 

I've never needed to go down this path before, but thought I would give it a try.  Like so many others, no problems thus far, and probably a lot easier and cheaper than people doing things the right way.  Yes, your 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, that pays you nothing, makes for an expensive visa here.

 

It appears that the use of agents is state sanctioned, and guaranteed for a visa. 

 

This Is Thailand.  If they are pointing me in that direction, no problem, but I have my Plan B well sorted, and if they ever refuse me entry, no problem, I'm off to Plan B, which is becoming more and more like Plan A anyway. 

[fhickson]

On 11/24/2019 at 12:31 PM, jayceenik said:

I did watch the contentious (with most TV posters on this thread) VDO. The vloger is right on target. Unfortunately.

Except that I didn't hear him mention the latest Immigration requirement.

The one about having to show your bank book updated every three months. in person, to verify that you're keeping the 800/400k needed for your extension.

Soon to be followed no doubt by a request for more bank letters certifying the amounts in the book.

 

Add to that annoyance that we have two houses (in TGF's name but paid by me) in the same province and theoretically! she must file a new TM30 every time we go spend time in one or the other.

 

The 800k in the bank don't bother me. It's money for the TGF when I die anyway.

And the IO said we can now do the 90-day reporting online.

But the TM30 and the bankbook thing are a real pain.

Add that if they ever require a Health Insurance for Extensions I'll have to leave because I'm too old to qualify for one.

Leaving behind TGF, car, motocy, houses, land (bought in TGF's name of course).

 

Yes. When I decided to retire in Thailand years back it was good to do so. Now I regret not to have moved to South America instead.

Too late for me. I do feel like the unfortunate proverbial frog.

 

its never too late to boogey, mark.

[EricTh]

I am surprised why JC has not been caught by immigration by now.

 

He's working illegally using his Youtube videos to make money for more than 10 years while he is in Thailand.

 

Now he's in Vietnam working illegally online.

 

[fhickson]

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

I am surprised why JC has not been caught by immigration by now.

 

He's working illegally using his Youtube videos to make money for more than 10 years while he is in Thailand.

 

Now he's in Vietnam working illegally online.

 

how would they catch him, wanted posters?

 

unless he posts pertinent info on his vids hes unlikely to be caught unless he gets overconfident and starts coping to it during reporting or on immigration income forms.

 

[Leaver]

56 minutes ago, fhickson said:

how would they catch him, wanted posters?

 

unless he posts pertinent info on his vids hes unlikely to be caught unless he gets overconfident and starts coping to it during reporting or on immigration income forms.

 

Another member says he's in Vietnam.  I wouldn't know.

 

If he is in Vietnam, how can he be working illegally in Thailand.  That said, I am sure Thai authorities could argue his Youtube clips are a breach of the computer crimes act, or are defaming Thailand, and issue warrants, so he never comes back to Thailand again, or is arrested.

 

If he is still in Thailand, the same as the above, but with the possibility of also being charged with working illegally. 

 

They know who he is, and if in Thailand, they know where he is.  Of course, he can hide out at another address, but eventually, he will be in breach of immigration laws, and will have to surface somewhere, and then he faces the possibility of immigration law breaches, labor law breaches, computer crimes act breaches, or defamation law breaches.

 

Then again, nothing may happen at all, because Thai authorities couldn't care less about the message he is trying to get across to them. 

[MeePeeMai]

9 minutes ago, Leaver said:

They know who he is, and if in Thailand, they know where he is.  Of course, he can hide out at another address, but eventually, he will be in breach of immigration laws, and will have to surface somewhere, and then he faces the possibility of immigration law breaches, labor law breaches, computer crimes act breaches, or defamation law breaches.

It seems as though he bought a large passenger type van and converted it to a living quarters.  Last I saw on his videos, he was living in his van (with his girlfriend) and traveling around Thailand staying in the National parks (camping areas), beaches and such.  It seems as though he is possibly now just a "drifter" (with no permanent address maybe?)

[EricTh]

2 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

It seems as though he bought a large passenger type van and converted it to a living quarters.  Last I saw on his videos, he was living in his van (with his girlfriend) and traveling around Thailand staying in the National parks (camping areas), beaches and such.  It seems as though he is possibly now just a "drifter" (with no permanent address maybe?)

 

That means that he doesn't need to do 90 days report?

 

Maybe he's trying to evade the authorities by not having a permanent address.

 

[fhickson]

6 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

It seems as though he bought a large passenger type van and converted it to a living quarters.  Last I saw on his videos, he was living in his van (with his girlfriend) and traveling around Thailand staying in the National parks (camping areas), beaches and such.  It seems as though he is possibly now just a "drifter" (with no permanent address maybe?)

back in the heyday he used to show up with a different lady every vid or so  helpers he called them.

 

i used to post comments on whether donations were being used to pay the helpers ????

 

these guys who ask for handouts to travel around are really annoying, but fun to bag on. just like those guys we all knew in high school who who be kn the fringes always asking for beer money  ill pay you back! etc. then you never see the money for some reason.

 

we used to say its not my job to support your habit when someone asked for spare change. same principal applies here.

 

another one i bag on even more then jc is an american in bangkok. whole vid is just asking for beer money as he walks around.

 

 

 

[Leaver]

On 12/5/2019 at 7:09 PM, MeePeeMai said:

It seems as though he bought a large passenger type van and converted it to a living quarters.  Last I saw on his videos, he was living in his van (with his girlfriend) and traveling around Thailand staying in the National parks (camping areas), beaches and such.  It seems as though he is possibly now just a "drifter" (with no permanent address maybe?)

Eventually, he has to extend, whether through an agent, or present himself at a boarder. 

 

Who knows what awaits for either his passport, himself, or both?

[fhickson]

On 12/9/2019 at 10:49 AM, Leaver said:

Eventually, he has to extend, whether through an agent, or present himself at a boarder. 

 

Who knows what awaits for either his passport, himself, or both?

how does the immigration person know its him?

 

does his face pop up on a screen somewhere?

 

do they show his vids on a wide screen movie night that the immigration person is forced to watch?

 

do they remember the initials j.c. and send everyone with those initials into interrogation?

 

do they force him into a back room with a gimp makUK ng watch and does he hear a weird thumping in the other room and a guy watching in the corner?

 

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, fhickson said:

how does the immigration person know its him?

 

does his face pop up on a screen somewhere?

 

do they show his vids on a wide screen movie night that the immigration person is forced to watch?

 

do they remember the initials j.c. and send everyone with those initials into interrogation?

 

do they force him into a back room with a gimp makUK ng watch and does he hear a weird thumping in the other room and a guy watching in the corner?

 

I would think it not so hard to take a snap shot from one of his many videos and match it with immigration's facial recognition, then you have a short list to flag, or even a 100% match.

 

In any case, how hard would it be for immigration to search first name J, family name C, American, then Canadian.  There's a short list that comes passport details and photos from the boarder for each JC from America or Canada on the list.  Look for the ones on retirement visas, now you have a very short list.  Visually compare the photos, and there's JC. 

 

If they wanted to go hard at the guy, I would think Thai police make contact Youtube and see what bank account his click money is going into, thus also giving a name to flag.  That said, maybe he is paid in Bitcoin, which is untraceable.  

 

I'm sure the police have a cyber section that can take the metadata from the clips to reveal IP addresses, MAC addresses, and the like, then send local police around to make enquiries.

 

I am sure they could identify him if they wanted to, and perhaps they already have. It's not like he is wearing a balaclava in his clips, is it? ????

 

As another member said, if he is making clips in Thailand, and is being paid, he is working here, with the possibility of the content of some of those clips breaching other laws.

[moontang]

Makes a great argument...for requiring the way too many bloggers to have work permits, and four Thai employees.  Still babbling about TM30?  Bag up your stuff and switch motels.

[Leaver]

7 minutes ago, moontang said:

Makes a great argument...for requiring the way too many bloggers to have work permits, and four Thai employees.  Still babbling about TM30?  Bag up your stuff and switch motels.

I would think you would need a journalist or media visa, not necessarily a work permit, with four Thai employees, but for sure he has exposed himself to some form of scrutiny. 

 

In my opinion, his clips go beyond the definition of being a digital nomad.  

 

I agree with most of what he said in this clip.  I just think some Thai authorities may wish to silence him. 

[moontang]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

I would think you would need a journalist or media visa, not necessarily a work permit, with four Thai employees, but for sure he has exposed himself to some form of scrutiny. 

And filming at a temple?  The only change this is likely to bring about will be special attitude adjustment for retirees, at their own expense.

[digibum]

On 12/5/2019 at 10:57 AM, EricTh said:

I am surprised why JC has not been caught by immigration by now.

 

He's working illegally using his Youtube videos to make money for more than 10 years while he is in Thailand.

 

Now he's in Vietnam working illegally online.

 

How is he working illegally? 

 

A lot of people still like to claim that any sort of online work is illegal but I think it's fairly established that nobody has ever been prosecuted and the head of immigration in CM said that online work was not illegal in Thailand. 

 

But, is there a point where you cross the line?  Simply making money off YouTube videos is a silly line because any idiot that comes here on holiday and posts some videos would be guilty of working in Thailand. 

 

However, does that change when you set up a Patreon account and people are paying you to make videos?  I mean, that's how a lot of this gets pitched.  You're not supporting them, you're paying them to produce special content or to have access to these "creators." 

 

Hmmm, now are you working in Thailand? 

 

What about if you set up a membership based site where people have to pay to use your forums?  If there are a significant number of expats living in Thailand paying you, are you working for them? 

 

I know, I know, even the most minor infraction can be considered a violation but what's the realistic chance of anybody bringing any heat?

 

He's got 34K subscribers to his YouTube channel.  A lot of these YouTubers have substantial followings.  If they tried to bust anybody with a decent subscriber count, chances are it would come back and bite them in the butt. 

 

First off, what YouTuber is not going to use that as a rallying cry to increase their subscribers.  They'll be posting every day about the injustice.  The WORST thing Thai immigration could do is single him out. 

 

How many of the really big YouTubers (people with hundreds of thousands or millions of subscribers) would steer clear of Thailand after hearing a YouTuber got busted for "working" in Thailand?  They would be sending JC tons of traffic telling his story of how Thailand's immigration department is trying to destroy creators filming personal videos (which they aren't but YouTubers will control the narrative of this story far more than Thai immigration). 

 

I think they need to create a new visa category for people that work online but until that happens, I doubt anybody is going after some YouTuber unless they do something really stupid like commit a crime on video or do something disrespectful of Thai people/culture (because they'll have 70 million Thais supporting them). 

 

EDIT:  Just wanted to make it clear, I find JC's videos to be as exciting as watching paint dry.  I'm certainly not defending him personally.  I'm just reacting to the often used, "Well that person is working illegally" you always see on TVF. 

 

[fhickson]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

I would think it not so hard to take a snap shot from one of his many videos and match it with immigration's facial recognition, then you have a short list to flag, or even a 100% match.

 

In any case, how hard would it be for immigration to search first name J, family name C, American, then Canadian.  There's a short list that comes passport details and photos from the boarder for each JC from America or Canada on the list.  Look for the ones on retirement visas, now you have a very short list.  Visually compare the photos, and there's JC. 

 

If they wanted to go hard at the guy, I would think Thai police make contact Youtube and see what bank account his click money is going into, thus also giving a name to flag.  That said, maybe he is paid in Bitcoin, which is untraceable.  

 

I'm sure the police have a cyber section that can take the metadata from the clips to reveal IP addresses, MAC addresses, and the like, then send local police around to make enquiries.

 

I am sure they could identify him if they wanted to, and perhaps they already have. It's not like he is wearing a balaclava in his clips, is it? ????

 

As another member said, if he is making clips in Thailand, and is being paid, he is working here, with the possibility of the content of some of those clips breaching other laws.

you joking right?

 

these people cant even figure out how to process a tm30 correctly and you want "them" whomever that is to conduct some sort of organized manhunt for one guy and have some sort of superior coordinating it?

[EricTh]

3 hours ago, digibum said:

How is he working illegally? 

 

If you don't think he is working illegally, then you can bring up his case to immigration and hear what the immigration head says about this.

 

The problem is there is a language communication problem. 

 

A bunch of Chinese nationals were working online while in Thailand on tourist visa and their customers were all Chinese people but they got arrested and deported.

 

They weren't even producing any videos promoting Thailand or selling anything related to Thailand (eg. membership, retirement books) like what JC did.

 

Yes, making Youtube videos does earn him income if he has enough subscribers to watch. He knows about this too.

[digibum]

5 hours ago, EricTh said:

If you don't think he is working illegally, then you can bring up his case to immigration and hear what the immigration head says about this.

 

The problem is there is a language communication problem. 

 

A bunch of Chinese nationals were working online while in Thailand on tourist visa and their customers were all Chinese people but they got arrested and deported.

 

They weren't even producing any videos promoting Thailand or selling anything related to Thailand (eg. membership, retirement books) like what JC did.

 

Yes, making Youtube videos does earn him income if he has enough subscribers to watch. He knows about this too.

Are you talking about the 5 guys busted for running a FOREX business last month?  The guys that had an entire business operation (like a dozen+ mobile phones, computers, etc) they were running from a rented house?  Isn't running any sort of FOREX business illegal for foreigners in Thailand? 

 

There have been a few busts of Chinese illegally working in Thailand so it's difficult to tell which case you're talking about. 

 

I just don't see YouTuber's getting busted though.  I mean that in the sense that I am absolutely unaware of a single YouTuber ever being arrested or deported for work permit violations (related to their monetization of YouTube videos).  If you know of some cases, please share the links because I've never heard of it happening and would be sincerely interested. 

[EricTh]

8 hours ago, digibum said:

Are you talking about the 5 guys busted for running a FOREX business last month?  The guys that had an entire business operation (like a dozen+ mobile phones, computers, etc) they were running from a rented house?  Isn't running any sort of FOREX business illegal for foreigners in Thailand? 

 

Do you really think that the type of online business matters?

 

So you are saying that we can sell certain physical things in Thailand but not other things? This is for non-online business. Selling any type of things in Thailand without work permit is illegal.

 

Similarly,  whether that business those Chinese guys are doing is illegal or not in their home country doesn't contravene Thailand laws because the customers are Chinese and not Thai-related. A company may be legal in country A but not legal in country B. 

 

Their problem was that they were working illegally in Thailand without a work permit rather than working for an illegal FOREIGN company.

 

Similarly, JC's customers are all foreigners and his company could be unregistered (so-called illegal) and not paying taxes to either USA or Thailand.

 

See the similarities?

 

If you really want an answer, just take his case to immigration and let them investigate whether it's legal or not. 

 

Making Youtube videos in Thailand is probably not illegal but selling membership fees, selling books, paid consultancy etc online while you are in Thailand on a retirement extension is illegal.

[EricTh]

Most people here don't seem to realize that Thailand doesn't care whether your foreign company is registered or unregistered (i.e. illegal) in a foreign country because every country's laws are different.

 

What Thailand cares is if you want to do physical or online business in Thailand , the company must be registered in Thailand and you have the work permit to do so.

 

Similarly, a Thai national (not a foreigner) can do online business selling Thai products or promoting Thailand as a retirement 'heaven' like what JC did, does that mean this Thai national doesn't need to register his company in Thailand just because it is online and he doesn't need to pay taxes?