I'm held by immigration in suvarnabhumi airport

[UKresonant]

2 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

They only would grant me single entry non o 2 yrs ago, proof of marriage, no funds (Thai Embassy Ottawa). 

That's what it is like in the UK now, only the single entry available.

(In the UK they did ask for 3 months bank statements showing £1500/month when applying for the non-O ME Feb 2019). 

[elviajero]

30 minutes ago, Timwin said:

You must be guite a new guy with Thailand and dealing with the officials ???? It does not work like in the West. 

Yeah after 24 years I don’t have a clue!

 

People being denied at the airport are not being extorted, unless you can prove otherwise?

[elviajero]

26 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

But numerous posts have said it is not possible to get a 1 year marriage extension in under 90 days.

So perhaps not compatible with many using non-O ME. 

Even if an extension could be obtained, cannot see the great advantage of one of those with a multi-entry permit, compared with a ME visa. They are both  temporary visit mechanisms.

A ME visa can be a big benefit to some visitors, but it doesn’t mean it’s the right visa under the visa system,

 

They are not “both temporary visit mechanisms.” One provides multiple short term visits. The other provides long renewable stays.

Edited November 20, 2019 by elviajero

[Maestro]

Removed some troll posts and the reply to one of them.

[Tayaout]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

Yeah after 24 years I don’t have a clue!

 

People being denied at the airport are not being extorted, unless you can prove otherwise?

As far as I know they a not being extorted even tho some previous report suggest it does happen. However, there is a "worry free" entry system going on at BKK airport (and maybe other) if you contact the right visa company. They don't care about genuine tourist but they seem to harass some of those who play with the gray zone of legality. 

[elviajero]

32 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

As far as I know they a not being extorted even tho some previous report suggest it does happen. However, there is a "worry free" entry system going on at BKK airport (and maybe other) if you contact the right visa company. They don't care about genuine tourist but they seem to harass some of those who play with the gray zone of legality. 

No visa company provides any "worry free entry system". You may be confusing the VIP airport services that operate at the airports and provide a fast track through immigration. You still have to run the gauntlet, but it probably does reduce the chance of questioning or denial.

[Tayaout]

32 minutes ago, elviajero said:

No visa company provides any "worry free entry system". You may be confusing the VIP airport services that operate at the airports and provide a fast track through immigration. You still have to run the gauntlet, but it probably does reduce the chance of questioning or denial.

No I'm not confused. I talked with the owner. If you are a serial tourist or you are worried for some reason they will not let you in then you can pay immigration. I don't remember how much but it's something around 2-3K.

 

Same thing happen with some consulate that limit the number of tourist/ED visa and some nationality can pay for a third land border visa run per year. 

 

You don't need to believe me but I even received line notification promoting this service... 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Tayaout

[elviajero]

8 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

No I'm not confused. I talked with the owner. If you are a serial tourist or you are worried for some reason they will not let you in then you can pay immigration. I don't remember how much but it's something around 2-3K.

What you mean is pay a corrupt IO working at the airport via a corrupt agent.

 

That’s no doubt possible, but it’ll get shut down quickly if it’s promoted on forums!

[Tayaout]

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

What you mean is pay a corrupt IO working at the airport via a corrupt agent.

 

That’s no doubt possible, but it’ll get shut down quickly if it’s promoted on forums!

Exactly.

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, elviajero said:

You well know that it is the underlying reason for the denial, but not the reason given for denial on the issued (legal) expulsion notice. IO's are instructed to use their discretion when denying entry to serial tourists - and to use any qualifying reason under S.12 that fits.

No I don't know that.

They use one of the clauses under section 12 as a bogus reason for denial of entry since none of them states the reason they want to use.

 

10 hours ago, elviajero said:

The visitor would be appealing the actual reason given on the notice. And you also well know - or should - that the IO's are working to orders from the top and they are the same people that would be deciding/influencing the appeal. So the visitor would effectively be appealing against the people instructing the IO's.

The same people would be the officer in charge of the group working at that time.

The appeal has to go much higher than that. I am sure that the appeal has to go up to at at least the division level.

I wish more people were aware of the right to appeal the denial. I think if more people did one it would help to end the bogus denials of entry.

 

10 hours ago, elviajero said:

That doesn't make sense, and what "biased opinion" would that be?

Your attitude/opinion.

[chrisinth]

7 hours ago, UKresonant said:

But numerous posts have said it is not possible to get a 1 year marriage extension in under 90 days.

So perhaps not compatible with many using non-O ME. 

Even if an extension could be obtained, cannot see the great advantage of one of those with a multi-entry permit, compared with a ME visa. They are both  temporary visit mechanisms.

It seems that many people don't understand the points you have made above. Someone on a 30/30 day rotation would have problems (even if the under consideration period could be extended and a re-entry issued for that stamp) and of course there is the problem of aligning the annual application for extension with time off; not all companies allow reshuffling especially if working offshore and restricted to company/country policies on days allowed for working.

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, Just Weird said:

If you are asked for funds you have to produce cash!  TCs are not cash.

Nonsense

Immigration has accepted travelers checks before since they are good as cash. 

[ubonjoe]

I have just removed a bunch of inflammatory, off topic, baiting, bickering posts and replies to them.

[unamazedloso]

Glad you sorted it out!

 

Im under the impression they have no right to ask for this. You've got the visa and should have 20k cash backup which is all they can ask for and should keep them happy but could be wrong.

Im aussie and just returned from getting another multi marriage visa from aus and had to now show 8k aud which is fine but never before been requested. Same shts happening to marriage non Os now i think thats been affecting everyone else. 

A little ethnic cleansing i believe....?

I always feel im going to end up losing houses, cars, bikes, other machinery, my kids, etc if i dont magically have some made up amount of money or crossed T or dotted I when asked. Its a constant fear and no way to live a life.

Thailand should take a little responsability for letting people set up lives here that otherwise wouldnt have. Biggest regret of my life so feel im already being punished so stories like this make me absolutely sick. My wife and kids want out of this miserable place but at our ages and worth (because weve been screwed out of everything here) we cant afford to do it so will most likely be seperated eventually.

Real nice Thailand!!

Sadists!!!!

 

[samran]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Never a good idea to let your Thai wife talk for you.

They don't really think before they speak, and have been trained from birth to agree with people in uniforms.

 

"I have the right to enter Thailand with my valid VISA" is all you need to say.

It's up to them to speak in English, and give you a legal reason to deny your entry.

 

Sounds to me like they're looking for a bribe.

Wow. So much incorrect advice in such a short space.

 

The only people who have unfettered rights to enter are citizens and to a slightly lesser extent, permanent residents.

 

For everyone else, it’s at the discretion on the immigration officer, visa or no visa. 

[BritManToo]

12 minutes ago, samran said:

For everyone else, it’s at the discretion on the immigration officer, visa or no visa. 

Thai immigration officers have no such discretion under current Thai law.

They are currently acting like a criminal extortion gang, using false excuses to illegally deny entry to legitimate VISA holders.

[moonseeker]

All these occurrences do circulate in the community and lots of people just don't come anymore. Plenty of better places to go to, but who is invested or tied down is screwed. I have never seen similar... MS>

[Barry343]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Never a good idea to let your Thai wife talk for you.

They don't really think before they speak, and have been trained from birth to agree with people in uniforms.

 

"I have the right to enter Thailand with my valid VISA" is all you need to say.

It's up to them to speak in English, and give you a legal reason to deny your entry.

 

Sounds to me like they're looking for a bribe.

I disagree with you, after we have heard what their problem is and if there is a problem she will tell me the fault or misunderstanding we politely apoligise and ask what we need to do to fix it. I have seen my Thai partner has up a polite stance against people in uniform when she has the proof on hand she never argues or tell them that they are wrong.

 

[UKresonant]

2 hours ago, unamazedloso said:

Im under the impression they have no right to ask for this. You've got the visa and should have 20k cash backup which is all they can ask for and should keep them happy but could be wrong.

I have to ponder that if the OP had his wife top up his THB account to just over 20kTHB, everything would have been fine as well. They would have felt they had complied with what their boss expected them to do, and the OP would be on their way. Them not understanding the CAD$ TCs, are as good as cash, could it be just their experience so far. (A couple of entries ago, the lovely immigration officer, at the entry desk, asked for the boarding pass of the flight I had arrived on. Others were still beside the desk, frantically searching their pockets. Also it was the first time for finger prints, both sets of fingers, then asked for index fingers, I said, two thumbs, as placed them. Perhaps that nice young officer, is asking for two thumbs, and return ticket as appropriate now. I have been mistaken sometimes, when I don't understand a conversation between two Thai's, that it sounds aggressive, when it is not. perhaps others get that vibe)

2 hours ago, unamazedloso said:

I always feel im going to end up losing houses, cars, bikes, other machinery, my kids, etc if i dont magically have some made up amount of money or crossed T or dotted I when asked. Its a constant fear and no way to live a life.

Reading such concerns, I often feel that there is no point in owning any houses, cars, bikes, other machinery, and other toys, they must be owned by the wife and kids only, if located within the Kingdom. 800000 in a Thai bank, ???? , ????, not in my account, is then the perception.

Perhaps the policy should be only to own a pack of medium cheddar, until it's expiry date, which it's unlikely to reach ????. 

It makes me think the holding of a Multi-entry visa, is most important, from a user perspective. 

2 hours ago, unamazedloso said:

Thailand should take a little responsability for letting people set up lives here that otherwise wouldnt have. Biggest regret of my life so feel im already being punished so stories like this make me absolutely sick. My wife and kids want out of this miserable place but at our ages and worth (because weve been screwed out of everything here) we cant afford to do it so will most likely be seperated eventually.

Real nice Thailand!!

Yes not sanuk, it is sad that people feel in that position.

Edited November 21, 2019 by UKresonant

[Just Weird]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

13 hours ago, Just Weird said:

If you are asked for funds you have to produce cash!  TCs are not cash.

Nonsense

Immigration has accepted travelers checks before since they are good as cash. 

Yes, I know!    I made an error and acknowledged that IOs may accept travellers' cheques also to another poster who pointed that out to me 11 hours before you posted that!...

13 hours ago, 4evermaat said:

@Just Weird  you can use travelers cheques to prove sufficient funds.  Unless that has changed very recently???

Ok, if that's correct, I stand corrected, thanks.

 

Just for the record, it is also nonsense to make the blanket statement that "travellers' cheques are as good as cash"; IOs may accept them but cash cannot be cancelled, travelers' cheques can and they then become pieces of paper.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Just Weird

[Caldera]

7 hours ago, elviajero said:

What you mean is pay a corrupt IO working at the airport via a corrupt agent.

 

That’s no doubt possible, but it’ll get shut down quickly if it’s promoted on forums!

It might. It might get shut down as quickly as those "agent-assisted" retirement extensions. The mechanics are the same, an IO who can exercise the necessary discretion is given an incentive by a third party to use that discretion in the visitor's favor.

 

In both cases, the availability of such a "service" gives IOs a financial incentive to hassle people who don't use it. Add to this that corruption is endemic in Thailand (not limited to just a few bad apples) and it's easy to see how this can become a contributing factor to questionable decisions.

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No I don't know that.

How is that possible! It’s been reported by TVF members countless time’s, and — in the case of VE — formally notified by immigration that they will deny serial tourists (“visa runners”).

 

The underlying reason the denials are made — as reported by TVF members — is due to too much time spent in the country. That’s an indisputable fact.

 

Quote

They use one of the clauses under section 12 as a bogus reason for denial of entry since none of them states the reason they want to use.

Someone can qualify to be denied for more than one reason. It’s your opinion that the alternate reasons given are bogus. 

Easy example. It is not bogus to deny entry under S12.9 to a serial tourist that doesn’t have the required  ‘pocket money‘.
 

In an ideal world I wouldn’t accept what they do, but the reality is that they can, and legally. And the alternative — a regulated fixed limit — is worse for the many still getting away with long term tourism.

 

Quote

The same people would be the officer in charge of the group working at that time.

The appeal has to go much higher than that. I am sure that the appeal has to go up to at at least the division level.

Yes, I know.

 

And it is the people at divisional level and above that are ordering the officer in charge/IO’s to use whatever reason under S.12 that fits; making an appeal pointless.
 

Quote

I wish more people were aware of the right to appeal the denial. I think if more people did one it would help to end the bogus denials of entry.

I’m all for making people aware of the appeal process; I’ve been advising the possibility of appeal for years. But I also know it’s pointless in situations where visitors for tourism are denied ‘for staying too long’ — regardless of the formal reason given —because the orders are coming from the top.
 

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Your attitude/opinion.

Well my only motivation is to give people the full picture/facts. And not to misinform people into believing waving a TM.11 at border IO’s is the answer to their problem!

Edited November 21, 2019 by elviajero

[BritManToo]

I've been staying in Thailand on non-o VISAs off and on for ten years (mainly on).

Originally I would apply and under reason would write "to stay with my wife", under length of stay 365 days, 1 year or 4x 90 days.

They were always granted, so I assume I could stay 365 days.

Later I've been applying for SE non-o, reason "to look after my son". length 90 days.

The last ten consecutive VISAs were granted without question.

I'm out of the country for each exit for between 3 days and two weeks (might as well have a holiday while I'm there).

 

If I'm applying for the wrong reason, or the wrong length of time, or too many times, it's surely up to the issuing office to point out any problem. 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by BritManToo

[khunpa]

Just another reason, why I am happy with my Elite Visa.

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by khunpa

[Cloggie]

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

"I have the right to enter Thailand with my valid VISA" is all you need to say.

 

As far as I know a VISA doesn't give you ANY rights to enter Thailand, it is up to the Immigration Officer to allow you access to Thailand. If they say 'no' it's 'no' regardless of your VISA.....

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, Cloggie said:

As far as I know a VISA doesn't give you ANY rights to enter Thailand, it is up to the Immigration Officer to allow you access to Thailand. If they say 'no' it's 'no' regardless of your VISA.....

Thai law was deliberately written to deny Thai immigration officers that discretion.

Probably in an attempt to stop corruption. Don't assume your countries laws are the same as Thailand's.

 

The appeals form is addressed to the 'Prime Minister' and 'The Minister of the Interior', and not a senior immigration officer for the same reason.

Edited November 21, 2019 by BritManToo

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, fruitman said:

So if you get the ME non-o marriage based in Canada don't you have to show them sufficient funds first when you apply?

Income or a  balance equivalent to 400,000 Baht. Still unsure where the 7000 CAD (158,000 baht) even comes from. 

[geistfunke]

15 minutes ago, khunpa said:

Just another reason, why I am happy with my Elite Visa.

The Elite Visa is for me a kind of bribe on a higher level and should be completely boycotted. If someone pays the money, they make life harder for all other foreigners in Thailand. But of course, if you have enough money, first think about yourself and how you can lead a more comfortable life. It's only human.  

[007 RED]

If I’m correct, it was suggested in one of the very early posts that if the OP is denied entry he should submit form TM11 in order to appeal against his denial.  The poster kindly provided a download link to the form.

 

Firstly:   OK the download link would be great but in fact will be of little use as even the most sophisticated smart phone don’t have a printer built into them (yet) and I doubt very much if the IO is going to let the OP use his/her computer and printer.  To make matters even more complicated in order to submit the form you also need attach a passport type photo to the form, which begs the question how many people carry spare passport photos with them all the time?

 

Secondly:  You can bet your bottom dollar that if the OP asked the IO for a copy of the form he would be told sorry we don’t have any.

 

Thirdly:  Even if the OP were to submit an appeal form, what is going to happen to him whilst the appeal process takes place?  According to The Immigration Act (Section 22) the Minister should give his/her decision within 7 days.  So if the IO’s want to play ‘games’ the OP could be stuck in the airport detention suite for the next week awaiting the outcome of his appeal.

[ubonjoe]

35 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Well my only motivation is to give people the full picture/facts. And not to misinform people into believing waving a TM.11 at border IO’s is the answer to their problem!

You are not stating facts when you say that they can legally deny entry for staying in the country to long on tourist visas.

The only part about your post that is correct is denying entry for not having 10 or 20k baht but they do not do that. Showing any amount of cash does not matter as has been reported many times.

No need to discuss it further.