Thai elite visa

[Ratt Thai]

I am here under second rule and quite confident that i know what i am talking about... 

(2) a non-Thai who enters into Thailand to: operate a business; make an investment; or who has knowledge, ability, or skills that are considered beneficial to the development of the country;
 

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You can apply for a work permit with a PE visa, but it wouldn’t be issued until you get a Non B and the PE visa is cancelled.

 

There are no circumstances where you can legally work with a PE visa entry.

 

With Thai Visa membership I had to re-enter Thailand on a Non-Immigrant Type B (and then process my work permit). 

My *S.E. Visa was not cancelled, I simply held two open visas at the same time. 

 

*S.E. Visa is the Thai Elite Visa I have - Life long Thai Elite Membership which was issued at the beginning of the program. 

 

Additionally: I had a confusing issue upon towards the end of a contract. I'd been in the UK at which time my contract (work) had ended, my flight back into Thailand was 1 day before the Extension of Stay (based on my Work Permit) expired, but I also had the Thai Elite Visa (a 5 Year S.E. Visa sticker).  

The Immigration Officer wanted to stamp me in based on my Extension of Stay (based on my Work Permit) for 1 day. I told him to use my Thai Elite Visa. I wasn't willing to leave the country the following day upon expiry of my Extension of stay just to re-enter on my Thai Elite S.E Visa. 

The Immigration Officer refused, I pushed this up the chain and demanded to see a more senior officer who without any further fuss stamped me in to Thailand with my Thai Elite visa.

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

I am here under second rule and quite confident that i know what i am talking about... 

(2) a non-Thai who enters into Thailand to: operate a business; make an investment; or who has knowledge, ability, or skills that are considered beneficial to the development of the country;
 

 

Good luck with that...  It still doesn't allow you work on a Thai Elite Visa because the Thai Elite Visa is not a Non-Immigrant Visa.

 

To Operate a Business you need a Non-Immigration Type B visa or a Smart E or I Visa.... on which you can work without a work permit. 

 

To stay based on Investment you will need to be on a Non-Immigrant Visa (and you can stay longer term based on your investment, but you are still not permitted to work other than to 'continue your investment in the country').

 

To stay based on 'knowledge, ability, or skills that are considered beneficial to the country you would need to apply for a 'smart visa' [https://www.boi.go.th/index.php?page=detail_smart_visa]

 

Someone can't just say, that they are going to work in the Aviation Industry and decided they can work with a Thai Elite Visa, they would need to go through the application process to apply and be awarded a 'Smart Visa T' etc.

 

[Fairynuff]

6 hours ago, smutcakes said:

It always gives me a wry smile when in visa threads people who cannot or do not want to pay for elite or don't want to leave deposit in the thai bank say its because they could be investing that money elsewhere as if they are Warren Buffet.

 

 

I don’t think I’m like Buffet but I KNOW that investing my money nets me a damn sight more than leaving it in any bank account in any country. While you’re having your wry smile I’m having a good old laugh at posts like yours

[Ratt Thai]

39 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

A foreigner needs a work permit to work legally in Thailand.

I am getting confused from the first statement you made (as quoted) and now your latest... 
So, which statement is the true one ?

Anyhow, i stick with mine and keep doing fine... 

 

[elviajero]

38 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

I am here under second rule and quite confident that i know what i am talking about... 

(2) a non-Thai who enters into Thailand to: operate a business; make an investment; or who has knowledge, ability, or skills that are considered beneficial to the development of the country;

Those “activities” are not considered work. So whatever you are doing is not work!

[elviajero]

27 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

To Operate a Business you need a Non-Immigration Type B visa or a Smart E or I Visa.... on which you can work without a work permit. 

Not entirely correct. You can own/operate a business with any visa status, you just can’t work for it.

[Ratt Thai]

5 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Those “activities” are not considered work. So whatever you are doing is not work!

I tend to agree with you in that opinion, but it was considered work or WP needed until:

On 27 March 2018 the Emergency Decree on Non-Thais’ Working Management (No.2) (2018) (“Decree No. 2”) was issued. Decree No. 2 amended Decree No. 1.

[fusion58]

3 hours ago, Ratt Thai said:

The TM30 report is not a burden on the shoulders of the TE visa holder, and it was not a requirement on my last 90 day reporting, as it was 6 months ago.

A lot can change in six months.

 

I was just advised by TE  five days ago that TE can't do my 90 report without a TM30 receipt, and that I must go to CW to obtain said receipt and do the 90 day report myself.

 

Oh, and BTW, be prepared to pay an 800 Baht fine, they said.

 

When I asked about the possibility of getting a TE rep to assist me, this was the response:

 

Quote

Regarding your request the Elite Personal Liaison (EPL) as your assistant to submit a TM30, as much as we wish to fulfill your request, we regretfully are unable to do so as this is considered to be a personal arrangement which members are expected to process themselves.

 

Note: I wasn't expecting TE to do the TM30 for me - I was just hoping an "EPL" could be present to make sure I didn't get gamed.

 

Not feeling very "elite" after this exchange.

[elviajero]

46 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

With Thai Visa membership I had to re-enter Thailand on a Non-Immigrant Type B (and then process my work permit). 

My *S.E. Visa was not cancelled, I simply held two open visas at the same time. 

 

*S.E. Visa is the Thai Elite Visa I have - Life long Thai Elite Membership which was issued at the beginning of the program. 

It would depend on the labour office processing the application. There is nothing stopping them accepting/processing an application on the basis that you’re going out for a Non B.

At one point they let TE members keep both visas, but now — certainly with PE visa holders — they cancel the PE visa. The membership remains and the PE visa can be re-instated again if the Non B is cancelled.

 

Quote

Additionally: I had a confusing issue upon towards the end of a contract. I'd been in the UK at which time my contract (work) had ended, my flight back into Thailand was 1 day before the Extension of Stay (based on my Work Permit) expired, but I also had the Thai Elite Visa (a 5 Year S.E. Visa sticker).  

The Immigration Officer wanted to stamp me in based on my Extension of Stay (based on my Work Permit) for 1 day. I told him to use my Thai Elite Visa. I wasn't willing to leave the country the following day upon expiry of my Extension of stay just to re-enter on my Thai Elite S.E Visa. 

The Immigration Officer refused, I pushed this up the chain and demanded to see a more senior officer who without any further fuss stamped me in to Thailand with my Thai Elite visa.

You were right to stand your ground on that one.

[Ratt Thai]

13 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Those “activities” are not considered work. So whatever you are doing is not work!

Interestingly, the definition of “working” under the Decree No. 1 remained as broad as in the Act and was defined as “the use of physical strength or knowledge for engaging in an occupation or a job with or without an intention to obtain wages or any other benefit”. Decree No. 2 now redefines “work” as “an engagement of any profession, with or without employer, but excluding business operation of a licensee under the law governing foreigners’ business operation.”

 

I think this leans towards your statement...

[elviajero]

7 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

I tend to agree with you in that opinion, but it was considered work or WP needed until:

On 27 March 2018 the Emergency Decree on Non-Thais’ Working Management (No.2) (2018) (“Decree No. 2”) was issued. Decree No. 2 amended Decree No. 1.

Certain activities were exempt before that decree.

 

In 2015 the following activities were announced as exempt (not work).

• Attending a meeting, a discussion, or a seminar;
• Attending an exhibition or a trade show;
• Attending a business trip or a business discussion;
• Attending a special or academic lecture;
• Attending a training and a technical seminar;
• Purchasing goods in a trade show; and
• Attending a Board of Directors meeting of one’s own company.

[Ratt Thai]

8 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

A lot can change in six months.

 

I was just advised by TE  five days ago that TE can't do my 90 report without a TM30 receipt, and that I must go to CW to obtain said receipt and do the 90 day report myself.

 

Oh, and BTW, be prepared to pay an 800 Baht fine, they said.

 

When I asked about the possibility of getting a TE rep to assist me, this was the response:

 

 

Note: I wasn't expecting TE to do the TM30 for me - I was just hoping an "EPL" could be present to make sure I didn't get gamed.

 

Not feeling very "elite" after this exchange.

ever considered to try online 90 day reporting yourself ?
No need to bring your passport to TE and picking it up again, just stay comfy on your keyboard...

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn90online/online/tm47/TM47Action.do?cmd=acceptTerm

 

[Ratt Thai]

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Certain activities were exempt before that decree.

 

In 2015 the following activities were announced as exempt (not work).

• Attending a meeting, a discussion, or a seminar;
• Attending an exhibition or a trade show;
• Attending a business trip or a business discussion;
• Attending a special or academic lecture;
• Attending a training and a technical seminar;
• Purchasing goods in a trade show; and
• Attending a Board of Directors meeting of one’s own company.

yup and repealed by 
In 2017 the Emergency Decree on Non-Thais’ Working Management Emergency Decree, (2017) (“Decree No. 1”) repealed the Alien Workers Act (2008). Decree No. 1, however, incorporated much of the repealed Alien Workers Act’s provisions and kept in force most of the regulations issued under it.

 

[elviajero]

4 minutes ago, Ratt Thai said:

Interestingly, the definition of “working” under the Decree No. 1 remained as broad as in the Act and was defined as “the use of physical strength or knowledge for engaging in an occupation or a job with or without an intention to obtain wages or any other benefit”. Decree No. 2 now redefines “work” as “an engagement of any profession, with or without employer, but excluding business operation of a licensee under the law governing foreigners’ business operation.”

 

I think this leans towards your statement...

The definition of work exists to stop employers from claiming the foreigner is unpaid, or a type of ‘consultant’, in order to bypass the permission (work permit) process.

[fusion58]

1 hour ago, Ratt Thai said:

ever considered to try online 90 day reporting yourself ?
No need to bring your passport to TE and picking it up again, just stay comfy on your keyboard...

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn90online/online/tm47/TM47Action.do?cmd=acceptTerm

 

I used to do all my 90 day reports online when I was on a retirement extension.

 

Since I received my Thailand Elite visa, I'm no longer able to submit the reports online, i.e., never make it past the first page.

[gk10002000]

 

At the moment no Health Insurance requirements. 

Holder still needs to do 90 day reports if in the country for 90 days but Elite Visa folks will process that in several cities.

Holder still has to do an extension every year, cost about 1900 baht I think.

Holder seems to be able to get a sixth year out of the initial 5 year visa if they time their last exit and entry right.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

Holder seems to be able to get a sixth year out of the initial 5 year visa if they time their last exit and entry right.

Well they will get the one year stamp, but a lot of discussion that it is not valid beyond the life of the PE 'membership'. 

[Ratt Thai]

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Holder still has to do an extension every year, cost about 1900 baht I think.

Not true, only if you don't leave the country after 1 year continious stay, otherwise you get a new 1 year stamp on each entry/re-entry during your entire duration of your membership.

[LivinLOS]

On 11/23/2019 at 1:18 AM, Drax said:

^. It paid my visa after a month for the same reason. I think that’s the major perk. 

No one 'needs' an elite visa to establish tax residency here, thats a total red herring. Secondly theres far cheaper ways to accomplish the same thing and even more. An anonymous hong kong company +- 3.5k usd with nominee shareholders and directors (+500) is a zero tax holding structure which has many added advantages.

500k (that isnt needed for tax residency) or 100k for an anonymous corp shield ?? 

I am not in any way anti the elite card solution, but pretending it does something any different than it does is silly justification.  

[ThomasThBKK]

7 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

No one 'needs' an elite visa to establish tax residency here, thats a total red herring. Secondly theres far cheaper ways to accomplish the same thing and even more. An anonymous hong kong company +- 3.5k usd with nominee shareholders and directors (+500) is a zero tax holding structure which has many added advantages.

500k (that isnt needed for tax residency) or 100k for an anonymous corp shield ?? 

I am not in any way anti the elite card solution, but pretending it does something any different than it does is silly justification.  

HK companies aren't anonymous.

And the moment you pay yourself a salary or dividends it's income and you are a tax residence in a jurisdication that has worldwide taxation (hello europe), which is most countries, you pay regular income taxes on everything.

You still need to live somewhere - and that should be a territorial tax country.

 

 

Quote

100k for an anonymous corp shield 

You have 2800 USD/YEAR fees in a HK company - as much as thai elite 20 year visa costs per year...:

Accounting costs,

business cert renewal,

company secretary,

office, auditing,

tax filling....

 

No company is anonymous. 

 

Then you need a bank account, HK won't set you one up anymore for HK companies. So singapore it is - DBS in Singapore is 300 000 USD min deposit for a corporate account for example. UOB or OCB might do it with less deposit, Citibank wants 200k USD.

 

Besides that, HK and most other offshore jurisidactions follow the economic substanec requirements nowadays: https://www.internationaltaxreview.com/article/b1fm4ksnjddnlz/hong-kong-sar39s-economic-substance-requirements-for-offshore-jurisdictions 

 

Just setting up an offshore vehicle isn't enough, that's why flag theory exists.

- Work in 1 place

- Keep your money in a second place

- Live in a third place

 

To get thai tax residency you have to spend half a year here, but most want to live here anyway, full time with occassional trips abroad, and have their 1 year rental contracts or properties here.

 

There's simply no other visa for under 50 year old singles which allows that without the risk of getting denied entry.

 

Sure you could do the same in panama, costa rica, philiphines, korea... but we are on thaivisa and we have all our reasons why we prefer thailand.

[LivinLOS]

2 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

HK companies aren't anonymous.

And the moment you pay yourself a salary or dividends it's income and you are a tax residence in a jurisdication that has worldwide taxation (hello europe), which is most countries, you pay regular income taxes on everything.

You still need to live somewhere - and that should be a territorial tax country.

 

 

You have 2800 USD/YEAR fees in a HK company - as much as thai elite 20 year visa costs per year...:

Accounting costs,

business cert renewal,

company secretary,

office, auditing,

tax filling....

 

No company is anonymous. 

 

Then you need a bank account, HK won't set you one up anymore for HK companies. So singapore it is - DBS in Singapore is 300 000 USD min deposit for a corporate account for example. UOB or OCB might do it with less deposit, Citibank wants 200k USD.

 

Besides that, HK and most other offshore jurisidactions follow the economic substanec requirements nowadays: https://www.internationaltaxreview.com/article/b1fm4ksnjddnlz/hong-kong-sar39s-economic-substance-requirements-for-offshore-jurisdictions 

 

Just setting up an offshore vehicle isn't enough, that's why flag theory exists.

- Work in 1 place

- Keep your money in a second place

- Live in a third place

 

To get thai tax residency you have to spend half a year here, but most want to live here anyway, full time with occassional trips abroad, and have their 1 year rental contracts or properties here.

 

There's simply no other visa for under 50 year old singles which allows that without the risk of getting denied entry.

 

Sure you could do the same in panama, costa rica, philiphines, korea... but we are on thaivisa and we have all our reasons why we prefer thailand.

The point is.. your tax resident, on a tourist visa.. any non imm etc etc.. Simply when you stay here > 180 days.. You can walk into any amphur and get your thai tax number simply for asking.. 

 

None of these things 'requires' the elite. So saying 'the elite saved me its cost in the first month' is a red herring, the elite system did no such thing. Merely being in Thailand for 180 days does this for free. 

 

Its perfectly fine to say the elite card system is worth it to you in peace of mind, ease of use, perks etc.. But claiming the elite system saved you taxes is not a factual argument. 

[huberthammer]

On 11/21/2019 at 5:33 PM, richard_smith237 said:

And if you average it out over 20 years, 1 Million baht is approximately 137 baht per day - it suddenly doesn't seem so crazy.

 

The 5 year Visa for 500,000 baht works out at 274 baht per day. 

And people never talk about the ever increasing agent fees they pay for their retirement visa. Clearly it will not add up to as much but to offer a fair comparison it should be considered as well. Fully aware that you can do the process without an agent but most people I talk to seem to be of the opinion that in recent years things changed so much that it is too complex and time consuming to do it yourself.

 

 

[huberthammer]

7 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

To get thai tax residency you have to spend half a year here, but most want to live here anyway, full time with occassional trips abroad, and have their 1 year rental contracts or properties here.

 

Did you have no issues getting a Thai tax number? I had conflicting experience/info with TE and getting one. 

[HampiK]

7 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

The point is.. your tax resident, on a tourist visa.. any non imm etc etc.. Simply when you stay here > 180 days.. You can walk into any amphur and get your thai tax number simply for asking.. 

 

None of these things 'requires' the elite. So saying 'the elite saved me its cost in the first month' is a red herring, the elite system did no such thing. Merely being in Thailand for 180 days does this for free. 

 

Its perfectly fine to say the elite card system is worth it to you in peace of mind, ease of use, perks etc.. But claiming the elite system saved you taxes is not a factual argument. 

How you do it to spend more than 180 days with a Tourists visa?
Now they are looking much better if you are a tourists or try to life here with a tourist Visa!

So if you are under 50, not married and no other Non-O are for you, then yes the Elite is the only way to stay >180 days in Thailand.

--> Therefore somehow the writting what he used is correct

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, HampiK said:

How you do it to spend more than 180 days with a Tourists visa?

Not that hard since it is 180 days in calendar year not a continuous 180 day stay.

"
            Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand."

Source

:http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

You can walk into any amphur and get your thai tax number simply for asking.. 

Amphoes do not issue tax ID numbers. They are issued at the revenue department office for where you are living.

Locations are here: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/38156.0.html

[ThomasThBKK]

4 hours ago, huberthammer said:

Did you have no issues getting a Thai tax number? I had conflicting experience/info with TE and getting one. 

 

I got mine in Bangkok via the lawyer i always use for stuff here.

We showed them shares from a thai company in my name and explained them that i will receive dividends from there, then they issued it.

Also had to show passport and rental contract(proof of address).

 

[richard_smith237]

11 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

The point is.. your tax resident, on a tourist visa.. any non imm etc etc.. Simply when you stay here > 180 days.. You can walk into any amphur and get your thai tax number simply for asking.. 

 

None of these things 'requires' the elite. So saying 'the elite saved me its cost in the first month' is a red herring, the elite system did no such thing. Merely being in Thailand for 180 days does this for free. 

 

Its perfectly fine to say the elite card system is worth it to you in peace of mind, ease of use, perks etc.. But claiming the elite system saved you taxes is not a factual argument. 

 

Working throughout South East Asia and Middle East (rotation) - No Tax.

Visit the UK less than 90 days per year - No Tax

In Thailand for less than 180 days per year - No Tax. 

 

For a someone under 50, unmarried how would they stay in Thailand long term?

Visa woes would force them back home, or they'd have to try again in another country. 

 

The Thai Elite Visa has allowed numbers of people (myself included) to live in Thailand and not have to move back to the UK, thus successfully and legally avoiding tax - That is fact. 

 

 

[LivinLOS]

5 hours ago, HampiK said:

How you do it to spend more than 180 days with a Tourists visa?

This forum is full of ways which people stay here.. From investor visas, APEC cards, ME B visas, to more lowly or risky options.. 

 

The point I am making is that its perfectly fine to claim you find value in an Elite visa, I dont argue that and have recommended them to folks myself, if I wasnt in my situation I would even consider one. 

 

But the fact remains, the elite visa isnt 'saving anyone that much tax a month' creating Thai tax residency, which can be done many many ways, often for far less costs, may save that tax.