Landlord refuses to pay the rental deposit

[Barry864]

Hello to eveyone.

For 1 year I used to rent a condo unit in a soi off Sukhumvit . I rented it through a real estate agent. The contract was for 1 year, 20,000 per month, paid deposit equal to 2 months rent (40,000). The contract ended in mid-October. Then I asked the condo owner, a Thai-Chinese lady who apparently has many units, if I could stay for 3 months more until mid-January as it was not convenient for me to move out a that time nor I wanted to extend for a full year. I paid for the first of the 3 months that I said I would stay, but a few days ago I developed a serious medical problem for which I will need multiple investigations and possibly an operation, and as I do not have any health insurance in Thailand and the costs would be terrifying, I decided to go back home to europe and have my problems sorted there. As I am unaware of the time frame, which could be long, I decided to move out of the condo where I was staying with my long time girlfriend. I informed the landlady a few days before I left, explained the situation, said I have paid all bills to date, no damages and I would leave the keys at the juristic office. She was all sweet and understanding. I informed also the real estate office by Line app and they told me they were not managing anymore the property as the landlady "was not responding to their calls anymore". I messaged the landlady in Line giving my bank details for return of the deposit and then left the condo a couple of days ago  and since yesterday I am back to Europe. We  left the condo in perfect condition with no damages and my soon to be wife spend a whole day to thoroughly clean it as she wanted to leave a good impression. After we left and since the landlady  did not respond to my phone calls, my gf managed to call her at last. Apparently and despite knowing that we already left her property, she told her, that we must pay one more month then stay  2 more months as initially (verbally agreed before) and that "she would deduct the rest of the rental from the deposit". That is my story folks, sorry if I wrote too much.

As this was my first time renting long time in Thailand I would greatly appreciate any advice. I am planning to come back to Thailand in early January and my gf went to stay with her parents.

Thanks in advance

[The Fat Controller]

You have left the property without giving the proper notice.

 

You verbally agreed another 3 months, so that is your obligation, so you paid 1 month and she will keep the 40,000 to cover her losses.

 

Just walk away, get yourself well and then move on when you have recovered.

[Barry864]

Just now, The Fat Controller said:

You have left the property without giving the proper notice.

 

You verbally agreed another 3 months, so that is your obligation, so you paid 1 month and she will keep the 40,000 to cover her losses.

 

Just walk away, get yourself well and then move on when you have recovered.

does a verbal agreement stand strong in a thai court of law ?

what is the proper notice in a verbal agreement ?

what will her losses be if she rents it in the next few days ?

I believe what she's doing is shameful and unethical given the circumstances. I would have acted very differently and in a honorable way if I was in her position. But this is the mentality of many (not all) thai people, if you can rip off the farang just go and do it.

[treetops]

You leaving without reasonable notice could just as easily be termed "shameful and unethical" despite the medical reasons.

 

The honorable (sic) thing is probably to accept forfeiting the deposit in lieu of notice, and this would be true whether in Thailand or in Europe and whatever the nationality of the landlord.

[xerostar]

You should have kept renting and let your wife stay at the condo. The inconvenience of shifting out and doing all that cleaning put her to a lot of trouble. Now you lose money and have to find a new condo and pay another deposit.  The landlady did what any landlord would do. Too bad about your personal circumstances.

[malt25]

Agree with both responses. Forget the ethical or moral inferences. You had an agreement.. you broke it. End of story.

[madmen]

18 hours ago, Barry864 said:

(verbally agreed before)

In court that's a contract especially now you admitted to it. Stop being a scammer!

[steven100]

As others have said ……  you didn't do as verbally agreed.  Put simply,  you broke the verbal agreement so the landlady has every right to keep your deposit. 

[DJ54]

OP wishing you a speedy recovery. You had a verbal agreement 

the outcome is fair for both parties. 

[KBS999]

19 hours ago, The Fat Controller said:

You have left the property without giving the proper notice.

 

You verbally agreed another 3 months, so that is your obligation, so you paid 1 month and she will keep the 40,000 to cover her losses.

 

Just walk away, get yourself well and then move on when you have recovered.

You lost me at Thai/Chinese landlady

 

[Scouse123]

Barry864,

 

It's not nice, it's not fair and its not ethical.

 

Also, to those prattling on about verbal contracts, do you think Thais give a damn about verbal contracts when the boot is on the other foot, without written guarantees? ...............What a crock of <deleted>!

 

However, you have no chance of a refund, and it will cost you a lot more to employ a lawyers services chasing this cash.

 

You could also if it went to a court, just like an unscrupulous Thai would, say in court that you were renting month by month, and you want your deposit refunded.

 

You will be given the run around until you get so frustrated that you quit chasing your deposit. Thai Chinese are not noted for generosity or compassion.

 

You should not on hindsight, have given the condo a super clean as it is not appreciated, and as another poster stated, allowed your girlfriend to stay in there until the expiry of the lease.

 

Also, again on hindsight,I would not have cleared up all the final bills and stretched it out until the end of the rental term and given them the run around like they are doing to you now. That is what a deposit is for, to cover any eventuality, which includes these utility bills as well as any damage excluding ' wear and tear '. Again, unfortunately, Thais landlords like to call wear and tear damage when it suits them.

 

Other posters are talking nonsense about verbal contracts, they very rarely stand up in Thai courts.

 

  I and many others on this board know the courts and legal entities are ' document mad. The court would have asked the landlady where was the documentation proving you had extended by another three months.The courts do not like, verbal agreements as it becomes ' He said, she said '

 

LIVE AND LEARN for next time, your deposit is gone.

 

 

 

[cornishcarlos]

Verbal contract, written contract, whatever contract. She has your money, you aren't in a position to recover that money. End of story

Put it down to experience and move along.

Hope you get well and can return to paradise soon ????

[Jaxxper]

20 hours ago, Barry864 said:

does a verbal agreement stand strong in a thai court of law ?

what is the proper notice in a verbal agreement ?

what will her losses be if she rents it in the next few days ?

I believe what she's doing is shameful and unethical given the circumstances. I would have acted very differently and in a honorable way if I was in her position. But this is the mentality of many (not all) thai people, if you can rip off the farang just go and do it.

Not that it makes it right , but I know of many Foreign landlords here in Thailand that pull all kinds of stunts to retain the deposits and then have the nerve to ask for more for dilapidations and damages. Not just a Thai thing.

Might want to tell her you are going to report her rental revenue to the tax people. Last thing people want are the tax folks crawling all over you’re “books”.

 

[newnative]

Sorry, no sympathy here.  You asked her to continue to rent for 3 more months.  She agreed and could have passed up opportunities to rent the condo during those 3 months.  She is only keeping the money she would have received for those months.  No brainer.

[The Theory]

If you did not have to renew the contract (at the end of 1 year) and had the landlord agreement for “month to month” rent you were right and she had to return the deposit back. But you asked for 3 months, that sounds like a 3 month contract extension, not really smart. 

[alex8912]

The landlord does you a favor. You completely want to disregard the deal you made with her ( I’m sure she would have wanted to lease apt for a full year) She would have had at least a 30 day period to find new tenants if you were vacating with normal notice as well. Now you try to blame her. You sound like the one who is not moral. I would also suspect the apt may have damage because tenants like you THINK the apt is perfect and clean and it’s not. In that case you owe her more $$ and she should have until Jan 15 to find a new tenant. I bet 90% of posters who side with you were never a landlord. It’s an agreement/ business dealing  snowflake, not a sympathy deal based in ones health. Security deposits are not meant to be used as any months rent.  

[Card]

I got my 2 months deposit back after leaving 6 months early from a 2 year contract. You should go see the Office for Consumer Protection at Chaeng Wattana. They helped me because current laws do not allow landlords to hold more than 1 months deposit. Then tell your landlady that they will support your case for free and that there may be immigration (if she has not registered you with immigration to avoid any possible tax scrutiny) and tax implications (she almost certainly will not be paying tax on your rent and deposit) if the case goes ahead. It worked beautifully for me. Rapid return of deposit minus minor and justifiable deductions.

[sungod]

If you are going to rent here, then just accept when you move out that getting 2 months rent back is actually a bonus ????

[Matzzon]

22 hours ago, Barry864 said:

does a verbal agreement stand strong in a thai court of law ?

Instead ask yourself if your verbal words trying to deny your previous verbal agreement is going to be stronger than a Thai landlords? Yes, there you have your answer. Just take the advice and walk away from this. You will get nothing back, as you agreed to rent 3 month more and only payed for 1.

[thaibeachlovers]

Cost more to go to court and BA chance of winning.

It's LOS. Suck it up and move on.

Good luck with your medical issues. Try not to worry about it as won't help your recovery.

If that's the worst you got done for in LOS you got off easy. Ask us divorcees on the divorce forum how much we lost- it'll put your 2 months rent in perspective.

[khunPer]

23 hours ago, Barry864 said:

As this was my first time renting long time in Thailand I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Seems like you broke an agreement – a spoken agreement is legally binding in court, but might be harder to prove – so fair enough if the landlord wish to be covered for any loss.

 

The good old advice for Thailand also works here: "Count your loss and move on".

 

20k baht is a relative manageable size – and I know very well, that 20k baht also can a be relative sizeable amount – but convert it to your home country currency, then it's not that bad.

[thaibeachlovers]

40 minutes ago, Card said:

I got my 2 months deposit back after leaving 6 months early from a 2 year contract. You should go see the Office for Consumer Protection at Chaeng Wattana. They helped me because current laws do not allow landlords to hold more than 1 months deposit. Then tell your landlady that they will support your case for free and that there may be immigration (if she has not registered you with immigration to avoid any possible tax scrutiny) and tax implications (she almost certainly will not be paying tax on your rent and deposit) if the case goes ahead. It worked beautifully for me. Rapid return of deposit minus minor and justifiable deductions.

Did you miss the bit where he has to leave because of medical issues? He probably doesn't have the time to mess around like that.

[madmen]

2 hours ago, The Theory said:

If you did not have to renew the contract (at the end of 1 year) and had the landlord agreement for “month to month” rent you were right and she had to return the deposit back. But you asked for 3 months, that sounds like a 3 month contract extension, not really smart. 

He wanted a bet each way making sure she wouldnt rent it out longterm frrom under his feet and at the same time thinking he could do a runner if he felt like it ...WRONG!

 

As a landlord I have found here in Thailand that farang are the the dirtiest scum . They will move furniture around to cover a hole in the wall and are always trying to not pay rent the last month...pure scum

[Odisan]

I'd chalk this one down to unfortunate circumstance and move on. You said you've left the Kingdom so you're going to have to sing for it. But, I doubt it'll do you any good. 

Get well soon and try not to stress over this. I doubt it'll do you any good.

[Pedrogaz]

23 hours ago, Barry864 said:

does a verbal agreement stand strong in a thai court of law ?

what is the proper notice in a verbal agreement ?

what will her losses be if she rents it in the next few days ?

I believe what she's doing is shameful and unethical given the circumstances. I would have acted very differently and in a honorable way if I was in her position. But this is the mentality of many (not all) thai people, if you can rip off the farang just go and do it.

Verbal agreements I imagine would depend on who said them. I seriously doubt any judge would think a farang would be telling the truth and a Thai landlady lying.

[Pdavies99]

On 11/21/2019 at 6:53 AM, Barry864 said:

does a verbal agreement stand strong in a thai court of law ?

what is the proper notice in a verbal agreement ?

what will her losses be if she rents it in the next few days ?

I believe what she's doing is shameful and unethical given the circumstances. I would have acted very differently and in a honorable way if I was in her position. But this is the mentality of many (not all) thai people, if you can rip off the farang just go and do it.

You agreed to a further fixed term of 3 months, so you have to pay for this, that is in part why you gave a deposit.

 

As to whether she rents it out in the next few days is irrelevant, in theory she could say giving you a 3 month deal caused her to lose a potential longer term tenant.

 

It would be the same under any type of aggreement when you accepted a 3 month fixed term agreement,  sorry thats how it is in any country.

 

Get well and good luck.

[Barry864]

UPDATE. Earlier in the morning I politely notified the owner that unless deposit returned, I would pursue the following actions next week according to my lawyers advice: file complaints to the following offices 1) local tax office with all the relevant receipts 2) consumer protection office 3) tourist police.

Soon after, and after a discussion with my gf, she offered to return half of the deposit. As I gave her a very short notice of leaving indeed, I considered that offer fair and promptly accepted. All parties satisfied.

Thanks to all that responded to my topic.

[Bundooman]

On 11/21/2019 at 1:53 PM, Barry864 said:

does a verbal agreement stand strong in a thai court of law ?

what is the proper notice in a verbal agreement ?

what will her losses be if she rents it in the next few days ?

I believe what she's doing is shameful and unethical given the circumstances. I would have acted very differently and in a honorable way if I was in her position. But this is the mentality of many (not all) thai people, if you can rip off the farang just go and do it.

A contract is verbal, written or implied by Western standards. Why shouldn't it mean the same here?

Having said that - Thai people make their own rules and you have no channel of recourse.

Thai people will not help you in this instance - walk away.

[Drax]

On 11/21/2019 at 1:53 PM, Barry864 said:

does a verbal agreement stand strong in a thai court of law ?

what is the proper notice in a verbal agreement ?

what will her losses be if she rents it in the next few days ?

I believe what she's doing is shameful and unethical given the circumstances. I would have acted very differently and in a honorable way if I was in her position. But this is the mentality of many (not all) thai people, if you can rip off the farang just go and do it.

Probably same landlord as me. She was a woman also (about 30), with multiple properties and stole my 38k deposit. Mind if I ask you in pm the landlord name? 

[Straight8]

On 11/21/2019 at 5:53 PM, Barry864 said:

does a verbal agreement stand strong in a thai court of law ?

what is the proper notice in a verbal agreement ?

what will her losses be if she rents it in the next few days ?

I believe what she's doing is shameful and unethical given the circumstances. I would have acted very differently and in a honorable way if I was in her position. But this is the mentality of many (not all) thai people, if you can rip off the farang just go and do it.

When I read the title, I thought, oh no, not another farang getting ripped off not getting there deposit back, but for once I am siding with the landlord on this one.

 

You had an agreement & you didn't fulfill your side, regardless of the reasons. What will her losses be if she doesn't find a "suitable" tenant in the 2 months... guess what?? 2 months rent that you agreed to. You not holding up your end of the agreement is being the one that is unethical, stop stop being a little whining beeyach, and move on.

 

On this occassion, you, the tenant is in the wrong!!!!