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tgeezer

บ้างไม๊

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เธอนึกถึงบุญคุณที่นายให้เธอได้ทุกวันนี้บ้างไม๊.....  ...... คำสั่งภายเรื่องเข้าใกล้เธอนะเรอะ? 

Here is something from longdo as An example of บุญคุณ which I am picking holes in! 

I welcome people picking holes in my arguments. 

 

The Thai penchant for playing with the language has produced two words which don’t exist so they need to be guessed.

เรอะ is easy, longdo has it, but the question mark gives it away, it is slang for หรือ.

บ้างไม๊  is probably บ้างไหม which again is a question.

 ไม๊  is a brilliant example of play because there must be few Thais who don’t know that ไม๊ can not be read, it should be ไม้ .  

 

So having got that out of the way, can anyone work out what the piece means?

It doesn’t seem to meet the requirements of the English given so would be delighted if anyone can explain the interpretation.  

 

I don’t think that a บุญคุณ can be given in the sense described. This works for me:   เธอนึกถึงบุญคุณชองนาย You think of the obligation you owe toward your boss. 

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what the **ck is all this about....will be mumbo jumbo to ALL on here !!!

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Not really. This. Is the language forum, have a look at the aims. I expect that you have just opened a new post and expected it to be relevant to you. 

Much of the post is in English, you do speak English don’t you? 

Edited by tgeezer

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The best I could come up with, with help from TL Bulk Translation, is this, although I'm not at all convinced that it is correct: (These days) does she feel any sense of debt towards you at all... ...order in the issue of you getting closer to her?  I think นาย here is used a 2nd person pronoun, not as a reference to the boss. In the second part, it looks as though the translator may have misunderstood "in order" and translated it literally as "order in (คำสั่งภาย)".  So my translation of the second part is a literal translation back to English of what I believe might be a mistranslation from English. 

 

This is the English original on Longdo, for anyone following the thread:

 

 

image.png.4d2d1f72afeba288be9070e147c0335c.png

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1 hour ago, Exploring Thailand said:

The best I could come up with, with help from TL Bulk Translation, is this, although I'm not at all convinced that it is correct: (These days) does she feel any sense of debt towards you at all... ...order in the issue of you getting closer to her?  I think นาย here is used a 2nd person pronoun, not as a reference to the boss. In the second part, it looks as though the translator may have misunderstood "in order" and translated it literally as "order in (คำสั่งภาย)".  So my translation of the second part is a literal translation back to English of what I believe might be a mistranslation from English. 

 

This is the English original on Longdo, for anyone following the thread:

 

 

image.png.4d2d1f72afeba288be9070e147c0335c.png

Thanks those are good points.

The Thai in these sites is often a complete muddle until I read the English but in this case the English was no help.  

I think that we always have to start at the end to translate. 

If ไม๊ means ไหม short for หรือไม่ (or not) then บ้างไหม

 บ้าง modifies นึกถึงบุญคุณ think of the favours somewhat  (to a moderate amount) 

Time clauses usually come first in prose if important so ทุกวันนี้ expands on ให้,  everyday.   

Spitting up the sentence: 

เธอนึกถึงบุญคุณ. You/him/ her thinks of favours. 

ที่=บุญคุณ(ชอง)นายให้เธอได้ favours he gives you/he/her to get 

ทุกวันนี้ everyday

บ้างไหม somewhat or not? 

Who is doing what for whom ? Only the translator knows because they presumably have the complete story. 

As to นาย ; to caddies at a golf course every golfer is นาย in both the 2nd pp.and the 3Rd pp. 

There are other service providers who have a นาย. So from my experience the speaker is referring to any extra goodness done to เธอ by นาย . However names do not alter the literal translation.   

 

What do you make of the dots separating the parts, don’t they usually mean another utterance supporting the first? If so they are both in question form.  

I like your assessment of the translator getting in order so wrong it fits the bill I think.  นายมีบุญคุณต่อเธอเพื่อมิตร์จิด 

 

I would translate it thus: Does ‘pronoun” not think somewhat of the good deeds the nai does for the ‘pronoun’ everyday? 

Does he not do it in order to get closer to the pronoun? 

My conclusion would be that as an example of บุญคุณ the translation only confuses, because it has บุญคุณ as a sacrifice which  provides only, yet another not very helpful equivalent English word. 

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It is important to remember that the Longdo sentences are English sentences taken primarily from movies which have been translated into Thai for the benefit of Thai movie audiences. 

 

The subject sentence from the 2008 movie "Taken" is difficult for me to understand:
 

"She appreciate the fact that you've given up your life in order to be closer to her?"

The sentence is structured as a declarative sentence with a question mark at the end. (the "She appreciate..." without the final "s" is puzzling also.) The addition of the question mark, to my mind, does not convert the sentence to a question. I have sympathy for the Thai translator who valiantly attempted to render the thought in Thai. I, on the other hand, cannot figure out what the English sentence means.

Perhaps the writer meant, "Does she appreciate the fact that you've given up your life in order to be closer to her?"

งงเลบ

Edited by DavidHouston

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There you are David. Thank you for joining In.  I met a friend of a friend once who used to dub Pirated English videos and I can quite see Exploring Thailand’s point about misunderstanding in order.  I can just about make sense of คำสั่งเรื่องเข้าใกล้ an order (concerning the story) of coming closer,  if นาย is in the dominant position but I suspect it doesn’t say that to a native speaker.     

I think that there are two problems here, the English is a transcript which is probably inaccurate and the translation is of more transcript than Is shown. 

My purpose was to show some slang and perhaps gain some insight. I can see how appreciate is contained in นึกถึงบุญคุณ now at least. 

 

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5 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Thanks those are good points.

The Thai in these sites is often a complete muddle until I read the English but in this case the English was no help.  

I think that we always have to start at the end to translate. 

If ไม๊ means ไหม short for หรือไม่ (or not) then บ้างไหม

 บ้าง modifies นึกถึงบุญคุณ think of the favours somewhat  (to a moderate amount) 

Time clauses usually come first in prose if important so ทุกวันนี้ expands on ให้,  everyday.   

Spitting up the sentence: 

เธอนึกถึงบุญคุณ. You/him/ her thinks of favours. 

ที่=บุญคุณ(ชอง)นายให้เธอได้ favours he gives you/he/her to get 

ทุกวันนี้ everyday

บ้างไหม somewhat or not? 

Who is doing what for whom ? Only the translator knows because they presumably have the complete story. 

As to นาย ; to caddies at a golf course every golfer is นาย in both the 2nd pp.and the 3Rd pp. 

There are other service providers who have a นาย. So from my experience the speaker is referring to any extra goodness done to เธอ by นาย . However names do not alter the literal translation.   

 

What do you make of the dots separating the parts, don’t they usually mean another utterance supporting the first? If so they are both in question form.  

I like your assessment of the translator getting in order so wrong it fits the bill I think.  นายมีบุญคุณต่อเธอเพื่อมิตร์จิด 

 

I would translate it thus: Does ‘pronoun” not think somewhat of the good deeds the nai does for the ‘pronoun’ everyday? 

Does he not do it in order to get closer to the pronoun? 

My conclusion would be that as an example of บุญคุณ the translation only confuses, because it has บุญคุณ as a sacrifice which  provides only, yet another not very helpful equivalent English word. 

I think the way TL breaks up the dialogue (as seen on this link) seems pretty accurate.  I feel that บ้าง in this phrase can be translated as at all (or any). See the image below for more examples of the use of บุญคุณ. It is often translated as expressing or owing gratitude (an expression of gratitude seems often to be translated as นึกในบุญคุณ) . I think he asking his close friend (นาย) whether the third-party (เธอ) he is referring to feels any debt of gratitude at all (บ้าง). I've often seen นาย  used to refer the interlocutor when the parties are close. In this sentence, it seems to fit in with the other slang and informal, matey vocabulary. I'm guessing that the ellipsis is the translator trying to make sense of phrase that he doesn't fully understand.

 

image.png.40136689c9682f77987fa1c6e977e20c.png

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I don’t refer to the English in order to translate the Thai.  I think that it is impossible to say what relationship the players have one to the other from the Thai, เธอ and นาย may as well be ก and ข . The English has revealed those relationships, they don’t alter the meaning of the Thai. 

When I started learning Thai I thought that all that was necessary was to substitute English words with equivalent Thai words. 
As this piece shows, that is not possible and I am concerned that there may be learners reading this who think that it is. 
Those of us who are beyond that stage or have abandoned that method can help those people. 
1. As David has said a question is not there in the English but if ไม๊ which is new to me, is a new way of writing ไหม then there is a question. 
2. The words appreciate and sacrifice your life have to be found in the term นึกถึงบุญคุณที่นายใหได้ . I maintain that this is not possible using a Eng-Thai dictionary.  
That บุญคุณ is seen as a sacrifice over a period of time can be seen in พ่อแม้มีบุญคุณต่อเรา ; an example of the use of บุญคุณ from the RID.  นึดถึง could mean to appreciate, because to ignore บุญคุณ would be to not show appreciation.  
บ้าง is often used because Thais tend not to “go for the jugular” บ้างไหม is asking to what extent is his lack of appreciation, I think! 
ไม่ได้นึกถึง... เลย is to not think at all.  

I chose somewhat meaning to some extent , which fits the definition of บ้าง I think ว. บางส่วนของสิ่งที่กล่าวถึงโดยเฉพาะ เข่น อย่างนี้บ้าง 

นึกถึง....บ้างไหม 


However we can’t be too particular about English parlance, Think of it at all and think of it a bit, are not dramatically different in English conversation perhaps.  
 

There is more than one way to skin a cat, this is mine and I am interested in any other means people use. 

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