Bigger cause of expats leaving...

[holy cow cm]

10 hours ago, moontang said:

Notice I rarely post in this forum, where most are whining about TM30..complied three years ago, never a problem since.  While many more are whining about the 800k...had mine here at age 42.  And obtained yellow book four years ago, without buying a house for a prossie.  So now some clowns are accusing me of scaremongering..while a few posted 100 tearful times about being forced to deal with an agent, because they didn't have the resources to obtain a Visa good for two years before they arrived...and even more are simply touts for Visa agents...of which I have not used in 22 years of trips here..Now, that I am within two months of an extension, I am attempting to get to the bottom of the situation, as I have always been 100% legal.  And, yes, there are credible reports that my local IO, which has been 10 times better than CM, is indeed requiring the proof of insurance.  

 

There is no denying people are hitting the exits.  Exchange rate might even be number one.  Obviously way fewer Euro and Oz here.  But, meanwhile, there is so much empathy for posters on here, denied and rejected, telling their stories with thick Russian and middle eastern accents..but they had a Canadian passport...Meanwhile, I try to compare notes and survey the situation, and I am scaremongering?  

Have you actually heard of someone on a non o extension being required to have insurance? I only heard the one who came to the airport on a ME O. 

[moontang]

8 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Have you actually heard of someone on a non o extension being required to have insurance? I only heard the one who came to the airport on a ME O. 

The post about Nonthaburi caught my eye...did you see it?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, moontang said:

The post about Nonthaburi caught my eye...did you see it?

He had a OA visa entry that he had extended not a non-o visa entry.

[seasia]

19 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What I find interesting in many of these threads is that people talk about leaving Thailand because this and that is bad.

But it seems many of the people who leave somehow think that in all new destinations all will be better.

Maybe it's easier to get a long term visa or residency in country x y or z. But how about all the rest?

 

How about the language? Would you i.e. move to Cambodia without knowing the language? Sure, it's possible to learn it. But that takes time. And I am sure there are lots of things different over there. Or do you think English is good enough to communicate with the locals?

And similar in other countries. It's easy to say: I will move to somewhere else. But how easy is it to live happy in another country which some of those people who want to move possibly never visited before?

 

I know, Thailand is not perfect. But I am irritated when lots of people seem to thing all will be so much nicer in this new country - which they basically don't know.

 

Or how many of you have detailed knowledge, experience, and possibly contacts in your new destination? 

I might be an exception to the many people  you desrcibe.

I am about 95 % decided on moving elsewhere, probably for 6 months of the year.

After having lived here 10 years ( with some holiday breaks away from Thailand.)

I already know that not all will be better but for the majority of aspects that are important to me, it is.

 

To answer your final question I have a fair bit of knowledge of the alternative country, experience yes have that as well.

Contacts yes also.

 

One drawback is that over the years I have made quite a lot of friends in Thailand.

It would take quite some time to get to that level of friends in the alternative country, in fact might be near impossible to do so.

 

As already stated by another poster, the people who I know that have left Thailand ( going back over say a 5 year time frame) none posted their intent or action on this forum.

The majority of people I know do not even read on here let alone post.

[reargunnerph3]

Is there Insurance for over 70's available? Over 80's? or are they required to leave?

[Sheryl]

4 minutes ago, reargunnerph3 said:

Is there Insurance for over 70's available? Over 80's? or are they required to leave?

 (Speaking only of Immigration-approved policies not insurance in general)

 

Age 70-75 2 policies available that will guarantee renewal till ages 99/100.

 

Age 76-80 only one policy and it will cut you off at age 80 so not a solution.

 

Over 80 no, none 

 

There are international policies that will insure at that agwle of course,  but except for first year of a new OA visa Immigration will not currently accept them.

[natway09]

Anyone who is not prepared to keep 800,000 Bht in a Thai bank nor safeguard  themselves in case of sickness or accident should seriously consider staying in their home country 

[Sheryl]

People are not being asked to "safeguard themselves in case of illness and accident" but rather to purchase local insurance policies of inadequate cover at high price even if they already have excellent insurance cover in Thailand or cover for all medical care under Thai Social Security from prior employment. In addition the only Immigration approved policies will not cover the very old. 

 

No reasonable person objects to the idea that foreigners living here should be insured. That is not at all the issue.

[mike787]

I’d say both but it’s a one two punch....just another requirement to force people to reconsider other better options...a path of least or less resistance.

[anterian]

21 hours ago, moontang said:

I renew in Nonthaburi, and have every reason to believe I will need to show the policy.

I renewed my Retirement visa last week in Nonthaburi and nothing was said about insurance. Perhaps he looked at my age, coming up to 84, and realised there was no chance. 

[Burma Bill]

For me after almost 20 years, it is income and the diabolical current exchange rate. Having a non-O retirement visa, mandatory medical insurance is not an issue for me (yet!). My problem is income. I will never be able to show 800,000 baht in the bank, and up until now have relied on, and have been granted my visa extension based on, monthly income and the UK's "proof of income" letter (65,000 baht per month). However in March next year who knows what will happen - monthly income confirmed by my bank? 

[gamini]

Bar girls are getting too expensive

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, anterian said:

I renewed my Retirement visa last week in Nonthaburi and nothing was said about insurance. Perhaps he looked at my age, coming up to 84, and realised there was no chance. 

Was your application for extension of stay based on an original OA - retirement Visa, or on an O Visa - retirement?

You can normally check at first page of your passport, which of the two categories it was.

If it was an O type Visa there is no health-insurance requirement for that type.

However if it was an OA type Visa please provide additional details.

Thanks!

[moontang]

9 minutes ago, anterian said:

I renewed my Retirement visa last week in Nonthaburi and nothing was said about insurance. Perhaps he looked at my age, coming up to 84, and realised there was no chance. 

was that based on an OA?

[PatOngo]

Regardless of immigration requirements, is it remotely possible that people are just getting fed up of the constant BS that epitomises this place?

[AussieBob18]

There are many reasons for Expats leaving and of the two offered I chose the insurance scam.

But I think exchange rates and the resultant decline in income is the main reason.

And I think all the 'impositions' like 400K/800K in bank, TM30s, and who knows what else coming, is the second reason.

Add all 4 together, then costs of hospitalisation, safety issues, and general 'unwelcome' here by the Thai Govt since 2014, and it is 'all over red rover' for many Expats - only the die-hards and locked-ins have not seriously considered moving/changing.

And as someone has pointed out - most dont post on forums about it - they just go.

 

[Parsve]

I live her on an extention of O-A since 2014, so we still exist, yes.

[globalspark]

I would think cost of living is far to high mainly due to the high baht.  Secondly insurance which is affordable. thirdly the 800000 baht for the visa each year. I live in Australia and come and go as I please here but frankly i live cheaper in Australia with better quality of  food and wine.   Good red wine in Australia is around $10AUD  and a carton of beer is around $35-$45. 

I love my food  and the cold cuts cheese olives are a fraction of cost  of Thailand.

A very good friend of mine who is very wealth had to go back to Europe for specialized treatment  which was just not affordable here.

I love to come to Thailand and having dental treatment is far cheaper here but the gloss is certainly  wearing off.

I do not  have the answers to the problems but the Government trying to devalue the baht would be a step in the right direction. Leaving the retirement rules alone would also help  and trying to find affordable insurance  would be good.  Does the Thai Government really want  pensioners  living in Thailand? I very much doubt it as the Chinese and Indian tour groups look far more attractive.

[saengd]

1 minute ago, globalspark said:

I would think cost of living is far to high mainly due to the high baht.  Secondly insurance which is affordable. thirdly the 800000 baht for the visa each year. I live in Australia and come and go as I please here but frankly i live cheaper in Australia with better quality of  food and wine.   Good red wine in Australia is around $10AUD  and a carton of beer is around $35-$45. 

I love my food  and the cold cuts cheese olives are a fraction of cost  of Thailand.

A very good friend of mine who is very wealth had to go back to Europe for specialized treatment  which was just not affordable here.

I love to come to Thailand and having dental treatment is far cheaper here but the gloss is certainly  wearing off.

I do not  have the answers to the problems but the Government trying to devalue the baht would be a step in the right direction. Leaving the retirement rules alone would also help  and trying to find affordable insurance  would be good.  Does the Thai Government really want  pensioners  living in Thailand? I very much doubt it as the Chinese and Indian tour groups look far more attractive.

A high value baht doesn't impact domestic consumption so cost of living shouldn't be impacted, if anything, imports become cheaper as a result. But imported Western goods have always been heavily taxed here hence the high cost you are seeing for wine etc.

[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, reargunnerph3 said:

Is there Insurance for over 70's available? Over 80's? or are they required to leave?

I'm assuming that it is the case that they would have to leave, maybe even younger. Life expectancy at birth in Thailand now is still roughly about 6 years less than in the UK, 75 vs 81, thankfully a good improvement for Thailand, as going back to the 60's it was a massive difference, 56 Vs 73 in the year I was born. 73 vs 80 the year we were married. (https://countryeconomy.com/)

Since they are Thai designed policies, I would imagine they would use Thai actuary data for a Thai national, under which perhaps people would be shown as past the domestic life expectancy rate? (in contrast to a home country view).

Circumstances may prevail, that continuously maintaining a policy in Thailand is either not sensible or even possible.

Edited November 23, 2019 by UKresonant

[Parsve]

I live her on an extention of O-A since 2014, so we still exist, yes.

[saengd]

+1

 

[Parsve]

I do not understand this with no claims of insurance for these with O-visa, but on the other hand I have never understood Thai logic. Let me explain. If you have an o-visa, you must have 400,000 Baht locked in a Thai account. Who will unlock it to pay your hospital bill if you are unconscious or have fallen into a coma and what happens if the money in the account is not enough for the treatment? Does it end then and you get kicked out for not meeting the requirement anymore? Of course, the same question applies if you have insurance and the cost is more than 400 000 Baht.

[scubascuba3]

1 minute ago, Parsve said:

I do not understand this with no claims of insurance for these with O-visa, but on the other hand I have never understood Thai logic. Let me explain. If you have an o-visa, you must have 400,000 Baht locked in a Thai account. Who will unlock it to pay your hospital bill if you are unconscious or have fallen into a coma and what happens if the money in the account is not enough for the treatment? Does it end then and you get kicked out for not meeting the requirement anymore? Of course, the same question applies if you have insurance and the cost is more than 400 000 Baht.

Have you not noticed that they don't think things through? also how about pre-existing conditions? deductibles? none of it makes sense

[uffe123]

I checked the rate with a company on line. They quoted me 14K for a year. Absolutely absurd.

Will be leaving amazing Thailand for my home country after 18 years. Had enough of all this BS.

back home I get free health insurance. while back last time,  i went to the emergency room on a Sunday. got the bill, zero cost. Didn't pay a dime, and great service.

at one time this was a great place to live but not any more. the negatives far outweigh the pluses.

[Parsve]

14 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Have you not noticed that they don't think things through? also how about pre-existing conditions? deductibles? none of it makes sense

I have and that is why I say that I have never understand thai logic.

 

[Trolleen]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

Bar girls are getting too expensive

Yes not only bars girls. I have not been in Thailand for 5 months. Went to Makro. Like eat lam.

5 months ago lam shoulder cost 375 baht. Today 570 baht.

Small amount of green in big c today 15 baht. 5 mount ago 10 baht.

No need to continue.

If it was good immigration rules, not polluted..... I would not much mind. But live in skit and pay more than in Europe it sounds to much for me. In one months go to Vietnam

 

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, anterian said:

I renewed my Retirement visa last week in Nonthaburi and nothing was said about insurance. Perhaps he looked at my age, coming up to 84, and realised there was no chance. 

Just to clarify > I contacted @anterian PM to enquire on which original Visa-type his application for extension of stay was based.  He was so kind as to respond quickly, and clarified that it was an O Visa.

As the health-insurance requirement does not apply for O type Visas (only for OA), it was therefore only logical that he was not queried for health-insurance.

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory off topic post meant to deflect the topic has been removed.

[shackleton]

those who are in their late 60s early 70s   getting medical insurance will be the main problem cost wise

plus any existing   conditions will not help their case