Some 7-11 branches to implement 'no plastic bags' policy from Nov 25

[Moonlover]

10 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

Maybe his problem is that he doesn’t own a car or scooter? Interesting that you seem unable to imagine that there are people who walk to do their shopping, and by not using a vehicle, saving the environmental equivalent of dozens of plastic bags.

I have been in this situation for long stretches. 7 years in Egypt and my 1st year here living in Udon Thani.

 

The solution is simple. Use a backpack. I was well known in Eqypt for always having one. They knew me as 'backpack XXXX'. 

[Stargeezr]

I read of these expats who seem, opposed to no plastic bags. What a bunch of losers

you people are. get with at least the tiny attempt to go green for Thailand.

sheesh...

Geezer

[CygnusX1]

33 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

The solution is simple. Use a backpack

So, wherever you went, whenever, you always had a backpack with you. Might reduce the capacity of the BTS at peak hours if everyone were to adopt that solution.

Seriously, although I usually despise the Australian nanny state, I think that country has the better solution - no stupid plastic bag free days, just have people pay a small amount for bags, say 3 or 4 baht. That would drastically reduce the use of plastic bags, while still giving people the option of impromptu shopping that doesn’t always have to be carefully planned in advance.

[Moonlover]

30 minutes ago, CygnusX1 said:

So, wherever you went, whenever, you always had a backpack with you. Might reduce the capacity of the BTS at peak hours if everyone were to adopt that solution.

Seriously, although I usually despise the Australian nanny state, I think that country has the better solution - no stupid plastic bag free days, just have people pay a small amount for bags, say 3 or 4 baht. That would drastically reduce the use of plastic bags, while still giving people the option of impromptu shopping that doesn’t always have to be carefully planned in advance.

Yes I did always have my backpack, but I never used public transport either. I walked everywhere. So it a double benefit. I also got exercise.

 

Charging for bags has been proved to be effective. It's been very successful in Ireland. The problem here though is not the chain stores, where a degree of discipline  can be imposed. But how do you impose it on the food vendors and small outlets? This has already proved problematic in China.

 

Thailand has quite a challenge ahead.

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts, offensive posts, off topic posts and replies have been removed.

 

 

[worrab]

13 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

Maybe his problem is that he doesn’t own a car or scooter? Interesting that you seem unable to imagine that there are people who walk to do their shopping, and by not using a vehicle, saving the environmental equivalent of dozens of plastic bags.

Come on!! Even if you are going to walk, then what is the problem with carrying your bags to the shop?? Not as if that is a hardship, then you fill the bags with the shopping and walk home. Done it enough times when I lived in a village in UK.

[worrab]

15 hours ago, Monomial said:

No. I think it is better to implement a sane policy, such as biodegradable bags or bags with a deposit, rather than an obvious ploy designed to increase corporate profits.  And people who drink the Kool-Aid and buy the cover story that this is to "protect" the environment are part of the problem.

 

The reason the world is in the state it is is because many people don't bother to think critically and just go out yelling slogans without considering the larger picture.

 

I say "God help us all" if everyone thinks this policy has been done to help the environment.

 

I am sorry but you have lost me on the plot to increase corporate profits. If you buy a canvas bag or whatever to replace single use, dump in landfill etc, then what is the problem? Okay so you have to purchase a bag but that should last for ages. We use bags that were bought for another reason which we now use for general shopping. Surely that has to be the better option or am I missing a trick here? Tesco UK do a bag for life. Only buy the bag once and when it is knackered, you exchange for another one. No charge.

[fforest1]

45 minutes ago, worrab said:

Come on!! Even if you are going to walk, then what is the problem with carrying your bags to the shop?? Not as if that is a hardship, then you fill the bags with the shopping and walk home. Done it enough times when I lived in a village in UK.

I am allergic to carrying bags unless they are single use disposable plastic bags....

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, worrab said:

I am sorry but you have lost me on the plot to increase corporate profits. If you buy a canvas bag or whatever to replace single use, dump in landfill etc, then what is the problem? Okay so you have to purchase a bag but that should last for ages. We use bags that were bought for another reason which we now use for general shopping. Surely that has to be the better option or am I missing a trick here? Tesco UK do a bag for life. Only buy the bag once and when it is knackered, you exchange for another one. No charge.

A plastic bag can be used for trash for example. 

So,you go buy your canvas bag, and let the rest of us use plastic bags if we want. If you Google the resources needed for a canvas bag compared to a plastic bag, you'll probably be surprised which bag loses. 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts about toilet paper have been removed.

 

Posts commenting on moderation have been removed. 

[worrab]

Just now, Max69xl said:

A plastic bag can be used for trash for example. 

So,you go buy your canvas bag, and let the rest of us use plastic bags if we want. If you Google the resources needed for a canvas bag compared to a plastic bag, you'll probably be surprised which bag loses. 

I did say canvas or whatever. Perhaps for the pinicky people I should say cloth bags or the likes of Tesco Bags for life. A bag that will not take 1000 years to rot away and is environmentally sound.

[garygooner]

On 11/22/2019 at 10:51 PM, zydeco said:

I have. Twice.

From Jan 1st many big stores too such as Big C. I'll just buy the black plastic bags from the store to use at home for waste instead. Are they any more eco-friendly? 

[JAG]

On 11/22/2019 at 7:53 PM, Monomial said:

So they seriously think that when I go in there and take out 6 bottles of beer from the refrigerator, bring it up to the counter in a red basket and pay for it, that I am going to be able to carry it out without a bag? I've only got 2 hands guys...

 

I have around 50 umbrellas because I can't be bothered to carry one of those around, and I have to buy it everytime. You think I'm going to carry around a bag just to buy beer?  These guys have lost the plot. 7-11 is supposed to be for convenience. If it is inconvenient for me, I ain't gonna pay their premium prices, and I'm sure not going to pay for a useless cloth bag every time. If I have to put in the effort to plan for a shopping trip, I definitely won't plan to pay premium prices at a 7-11.

 

If CP had even a lick of sense, they'd be fighting the government on this policy rather than capitulating. It is going to kill their business model.

 

 

They're doomed, I tell you, doomed!

????

[JAG]

39 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

A plastic bag can be used for trash for example. 

So,you go buy your canvas bag, and let the rest of us use plastic bags if we want. If you Google the resources needed for a canvas bag compared to a plastic bag, you'll probably be surprised which bag loses. 

Yes, but bear in mind, the canvas bag may require more resources to manufacture, but it can be reused dozens, maybe hundreds of times. The plastic bag once - or twice if you use it to bag up your rubbish, which is then preserved for goodness knows how long!

[30la]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

Yes, but bear in mind, the canvas bag may require more resources to manufacture, but it can be reused dozens, maybe hundreds of times. The plastic bag once - or twice if you use it to bag up your rubbish, which is then preserved for goodness knows how long!

If we all used cloth bags instead of plastic bags, help for nature, the world and certainly also for ourselves would be immense!
I grew up at a time when there were no plastic bags, I saw the beginning of the plastic era, then the request for money for each bag, I survived all this without damage, I only use cloth bags that I always carry with me !

[Max69xl]

8 minutes ago, 30la said:

If we all used cloth bags instead of plastic bags, help for nature, the world and certainly also for ourselves would be immense!
I grew up at a time when there were no plastic bags, I saw the beginning of the plastic era, then the request for money for each bag, I survived all this without damage, I only use cloth bags that I always carry with me !

You're such a good boy. Fyi, I will never carry a canvas bag with me.  And you're actually wrong about the nature and resources when it comes to manufacture canvas bags compared to plastic bags. Google it if you know how. 

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

A plastic bag can be used for trash for example. 

So,you go buy your canvas bag, and let the rest of us use plastic bags if we want. If you Google the resources needed for a canvas bag compared to a plastic bag, you'll probably be surprised which bag loses. 

Quote

So what are we talking about when we say ‘cloth bags’?

Cloth bags refers to any reusable bag that is not made from HDPE plastic. This ranges from natural fiber totes, to recycled reusables, to backpacks and even upcycled DIY bags.

While yes, it technically takes much less energy and resources to produce an HDPE single use plastic bag than a reusable bag, those same resources are surmounted by the sheer magnitude of plastic bags necessary to keep up with their fleeting usefulness.

For example, we currently use 500 billion bags every year worldwide. And each one of those bags requires a significant amount of natural gas and crude oil to make. In the US alone, it takes twelve million tons of petroleum to meet the production of plastic bags for the country each year.

It also requires a significant amount of money and resources to clean up and dispose of these plastic bags. In 2004, the City of San Francisco estimated a price tag of $8.49 million per year in clean up and landfill costs for plastic bags each year.

The advantages of cloth bags are also compounded by their environmental impact. While yes, it may take up to 170 uses  for a cotton bag to reach it’s “break even” number—the amount of times a bag must be used to balance it’s impact to manufacture—many reusable cloth bags are now being made from recycled materials, such as the Tern tote. These recycled, reusable totes are taking otherwise discarded plastic waste and producing long lasting, durable cloth bags that can be used for years to come.

 

[CygnusX1]

2 hours ago, worrab said:

Come on!! Even if you are going to walk, then what is the problem with carrying your bags to the shop?? Not as if that is a hardship, then you fill the bags with the shopping and walk home. Done it enough times when I lived in a village in UK.

When I’m in Australia I actually do walk to the supermarket with a backpack for every planned grocery shop. Problem is that you don’t always plan to shop, for instance if I’m spending a day sightseeing in a city, I might want to shop on the way home, and don’t want to be carrying cloth bags around with me all day. My apartment might be a couple of km from the nearest supermarket, so I’d have to go all the way home and back out again. If I could just buy some bags for a few baht instead of nothing being available, we might have the best of both worlds, big reduction in plastic bag use and convenience for when I occasionally need bags. Works in Australia and some European countries.

[nglodnig]

On 11/22/2019 at 7:30 PM, fforest1 said:

How many people PLAN ahead of time their 7-11 shopping....

 

I bet virtually every last person reading this does not PLAN all their 7-11 shopping....

 

So we carry bags around we us 24/7 now?

Don't know about you - but I always do.

[Max69xl]

9 minutes ago, nglodnig said:

Don't know about you - but I always do.

I know a lot of people where I'm staying incl. thai people, and NO ONE carries a bag. Never ever. I'm staying next to a market, and same thing there. No customer carries an empty bag,canvas or plastic. 

[HHTel]

Well hopefully that'll change as people become more aware and retailers stop issuing single use bags.  I have found in my neighbourhood that from being alone with my bag, more and more are taking their own bags.  It'll take time, but people will adapt as they have in many other countries.

[fforest1]

1 minute ago, HHTel said:

  It'll take time, but people will adapt as they have in many other countries.

Dont hold your breath waiting.....

[zydeco]

50 minutes ago, nglodnig said:

Don't know about you - but I always do.

My sympathies. I hope that some day serendipity and joie de vivre may find its way into your existence.

[cracker1]

On 11/22/2019 at 7:53 PM, Monomial said:

So they seriously think that when I go in there and take out 6 bottles of beer from the refrigerator, bring it up to the counter in a red basket and pay for it, that I am going to be able to carry it out without a bag? I've only got 2 hands guys...

 

I have around 50 umbrellas because I can't be bothered to carry one of those around, and I have to buy it everytime. You think I'm going to carry around a bag just to buy beer?  These guys have lost the plot. 7-11 is supposed to be for convenience. If it is inconvenient for me, I ain't gonna pay their premium prices, and I'm sure not going to pay for a useless cloth bag every time. If I have to put in the effort to plan for a shopping trip, I definitely won't plan to pay premium prices at a 7-11.

 

If CP had even a lick of sense, they'd be fighting the government on this policy rather than capitulating. It is going to kill their business model.

 

 

I think you will soon have 50 fabric 7-11 shopping bags ?

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, 30la said:

If we all used cloth bags instead of plastic bags, help for nature, the world and certainly also for ourselves would be immense!
I grew up at a time when there were no plastic bags, I saw the beginning of the plastic era, then the request for money for each bag, I survived all this without damage, I only use cloth bags that I always carry with me !

So where exactly can you buy these cloth bags everyone is banging on about? and how much?

 

Maybe a photo example would help

[Ajarnbrian]

Long overdue, especially if good quality re-usable bags can be bought instead. I`ve been taking 1 dollar strong supermarket bags from Australia to my Thai relatives for some years. They like them.

[madmen]

All 7/11 in my area have reusable bags in front of the counters at 3 baht each.

[HHTel]

2 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Dont hold your breath waiting.....

Of course.  I forget that Thailand and it's people are different from the other 7 billion people in the world as some posters on here believe.

If countries in Africa can do it then why not here.

 

Thailand among others can learn from the success in Africa and the failure in India.  India banned plastic bags but didn't have the correct laws in place. That meant that enforcement proved difficult. That will happen here if the legislation is not thought through properly.

[Monomial]

6 hours ago, worrab said:

I am sorry but you have lost me on the plot to increase corporate profits. If you buy a canvas bag or whatever to replace single use, dump in landfill etc, then what is the problem? Okay so you have to purchase a bag but that should last for ages. We use bags that were bought for another reason which we now use for general shopping. Surely that has to be the better option or am I missing a trick here? Tesco UK do a bag for life. Only buy the bag once and when it is knackered, you exchange for another one. No charge.

 

This isn't rocket science guys. Think. Currently, a retailer spends about 0.1% of gross profits to supply plastic bags to their customers. There are 3 practical options for reducing the problem with plastic polution:

 

1) Require all retailers to only use biodegradable plastic. These bags are more expensive and have a shorter life, thus increasing both the production cost and the logistics costs. In other words, this would INCREASE the price to the retailer and put pressure on their profits, but would not require inconveniencing the customer. Result:  lower profits means retailers fight tooth and nail against this option.

 

2) Refundable bag deposits:  This technique has been utilized for decades in things like plastic bottles. It requires some markers in the bags to make sure counterfeiting doesn't occur during the refund process, and requires the retailer to bear the costs of accepting bag returns. Result:  INCREASED cost and decreased profits from the retailers, but only a very minor inconvenience to the customer, because he can accumulate bags and simply return them periodically when he does major shopping. But since it costs the retailer money, they will fight tooth and nail against this proposal.

 

3) Just stop bags altogether: This idea is a huge inconvenience to customers, but the social justice warriors have all convinced their peers that this is done to save the environment. This is the worst possible solution to the problem, and any retailer who has tried "no bags" has found the vast majority of customers dislike this, and will only accept it if there is a big incentive provided, such as Makro with lower prices. Tesco could never stop giving bags unilaterally, because everyone would then switch to Big C.  However, if they can get the government to pass a law forcing this, then they can completely ignore consumer preference, give the middle finger to their customers, and simply say "som nom na." You've got no choice. Meanwhile, they get a windfall profit, because they no longer have to spend approximately 0.1% of the gross revenue on plastic bags. Win for them. Loss for the rest of us.

 

I would support a solution along the lines of 1 or 2. I detest option 3. I think anyone who supports option 3 doesn't care at all about the environment, but is only doing the bidding of the uber wealthy and giant retailers. So if you support the elite robber barrons, go ahead and continue supporting "no bags". Be proud of the fact that you want to increase their profits. But don't pretend that you give a damn about the environment. The rest of us know that is not the reason this solution was chosen.

 

If you support option 3, it is only fair to also demand a windfall profits tax on gross sales of retailers to make sure the money goes somewhere useful, and not to the bottom line profits of the wealthy. If the retailers actually had to pay for this policy, you can bet we'd probably get a solution along the lines of 1 or 2 instead.

 

 

 

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

So where exactly can you buy these cloth bags everyone is banging on about? and how much?

 

Maybe a photo example would help

The larger retailers already have alternatives on offer.  Some 7/11's sell cloth bags at 5, 10 and 15 baht.  CP have already stated that from Jan 1, alternative bags will be available.