Ban of sugar cane burning enforced this year. Really?

[kickstart]

1 hour ago, farmerjo said:

Straight across the road today and a first for this area.

I'd say today ran at a loss for the contractor,3 hours to load one truck with not more then 4 rai.

3 other trucks on standby left empty handed.

 

 

 

One truck load is about 15 ton ,works out just short of 4 ton /rie ,not much of a profit ,about the same as this area ,down about 50% on past years ,and the sugar content is low this year ,so a reduced price .

That chopper looks like a JD ,in this area mainly Case choppers ,what wayned was saying about importing  second hand machinery that one will be 3 million baht ,the JD's seem dearer than the Case .

Any idea what they are charging ,as I said around here 350 baht/ton cut and haule to the mill ,mill being about 25-30 km away .

[farmerjo]

24 minutes ago, kickstart said:

Any idea what they are charging ,as I said around here 350 baht/ton cut and haule to the mill ,mill being about 25-30 km away

Will find out KS,was on tractor most of the day and took those pics at lunch time.

[wayned]

Up until this year the two harvesters in the area were JD 3510's.  This year a new Company showed up that buys the cane by the Rai in the field.  He cuts, trucks it ,rakes and bales and hauls the silage.  He has a Case harvester.  The others just cut and haul and you pay by Rai and get your profit from the mill, if any.  I think the cutting is 350baht/Rai this year and the mill is paying 750 baht/ton.  Some of the cane was irrigated and in good shape but I doubt that there is very little or no profit on the un-irrigated fields.

[kickstart]

21 hours ago, wayned said:

Up until this year the two harvesters in the area were JD 3510's.  This year a new Company showed up that buys the cane by the Rai in the field.  He cuts, trucks it ,rakes and bales and hauls the silage.  He has a Case harvester.  The others just cut and haul and you pay by Rai and get your profit from the mill, if any.  I think the cutting is 350baht/Rai this year and the mill is paying 750 baht/ton.  Some of the cane was irrigated and in good shape but I doubt that there is very little or no profit on the un-irrigated fields.

Good to see someone else baling sugar cane straw ,I would doubt if it will be going for silage ,makes a very poor feed .

A guy did it around here last year ,he said his straw was going for paper ,have herd of it going for biofuel.

You are like us un irrigated cane very poor ,field  near here ,5 foot tall ,cutting it will barely cover harvest costs.  

[farmerjo]

My neighbour is now understanding about pro's an con's  selling his sugar to a harvesting contractor.

The contractor harvested 4 rai with machine and came back tonight and lit the rest up including the chaff the harvester had spread.

I can't quite work it out whether there is a subsidy for the contractor with machine but on the other hand he may have also given credit to cutters and wants to redeem that money as well.Or the sugar factory comes with machine and gets back the credit owed by the farmer.

Besides that the neighbour has a bore and could of started watering the cut stuff days a go.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by farmerjo

[Speedo1968]

Monday 13 Jan - 5.30pm my usual evening exercise in local exercise park 50km south of Khon Kaen.

Raining large pieces of black burnt cane.

Every way I look from the walking circle is smoke from individual fires going straight up and high, all of the lower sky in every direction a grey from previous days of burning.

There is no breeze and the smoke rises higher and spreads like a mushroom cloud - there are pictures from the past of other "mushroom" clouds that had an instant effect on all living things below - the only difference with the clouds we see now is that the effects take longer to see ...

[farmerjo]

Drove past a couple of weigh stations today and it's getting busy.

Highest price i saw was 930 baht,some still at 750.

[kickstart]

1 hour ago, farmerjo said:

Drove past a couple of weigh stations today and it's getting busy.

Highest price i saw was 930 baht,some still at 750.

A weigh station is paying 930 baht/ton, factory is paying 750 baht/ton ? how do weigh stations make they money ? ,Thoongfoned explained how the weigh stations work ,still do not understand them , and how they make they money ,we do not have them in our area.

Around here cane price is still 750 baht/ton. 

[farmerjo]

8 minutes ago, kickstart said:

A weigh station is paying 930 baht/ton, factory is paying 750 baht/ton ? how do weigh stations make they money ? ,Thoongfoned explained how the weigh stations work ,still do not understand them , and how they make they money ,we do not have them in our area.

Around here cane price is still 750 baht/ton. 

Don't know KS,only thing i can think off is they have all signed quota's with the factory.

The two price differences were within 150 metres of each other and the one offering more has been quiet with loads compared to the other.

[kickstart]

Found this near me ,baling cane straw ,the guy said that the straw will be going for bio -fuel ,the photos are two different locations ,a few miles apart ,,so he gets about .

The baler is  high density ,makes a bale weighing ,he said 250kg ,imported it second hand  I asked him how much the baler was ,he did not say but said it should be 900k ,but he did not pay that ,I would say he payed 750k.

I said that tractor was rated at 115 hp ,he said it is a bit slow ,could do with 130hp ,more to do with the hydraulics ,than engine power ,these balers have a big ram in them that packs the straw in to a bale ,that take some powering .

The rake was made in Thailand ,two grass rake put together ,makes a big row for the baler .

This must be one of the better crops in the area ,seem a lot of bales in the field .

Did not ask him how he was going to pick the bales up ,he will need a bit more than a Ford 6600 and loader ,also the price he is getting ,hope it is a fair price so he can keep going and it is not  just a one year wonder.

They was a guy near me who made some big round bales last year using cane straw ,not seem him about yet this year 

 

[wayned]

I found a used JD L100 baler in the US for $28,900.  By the time you bought it , had it disassembled and containerized, shipped it, paid duties and takes and imported it and had the container delivered to your site the cost would be about 1.3 million baht.  When you o[pend the container you would have to unload it a nd put the multiple piece erector set back together without instructions.  Been there, done that with three JD combines.

[thoongfoned]

18 hours ago, kickstart said:

A weigh station is paying 930 baht/ton, factory is paying 750 baht/ton ? how do weigh stations make they money ? ,Thoongfoned explained how the weigh stations work ,still do not understand them , and how they make they money ,we do not have them in our area.

Around here cane price is still 750 baht/ton. 

wife says the local price here has also gone up, 800 for burned of 850 not, last time i looked i think is was 650/700 ish, before new year.

the  village roads dont seem as busy (cane carting) as years before, maybe the weigh stations are worried they will not fill their agreed quota with the buyers, if so they will loose a lot of baht per ton on what they deliver, so have put the price up to try and buy more cane to fill the tonage shortfall?

afew years ago i knew a local (thai) that put alot of borrowed money into a set price cane business, he bought lorries and tractors/grabs ect... could not get enough cane delivered and lost it all, plus..house/pickup/farm ect still had to find more money to pay back the main buyer, he is still in south korea working of the debt, this was 4/5 years ago

[kickstart]

4 hours ago, thoongfoned said:

wife says the local price here has also gone up, 800 for burned of 850 not, last time i looked i think is was 650/700 ish, before new year.

the  village roads dont seem as busy (cane carting) as years before, maybe the weigh stations are worried they will not fill their agreed quota with the buyers, if so they will loose a lot of baht per ton on what they deliver, so have put the price up to try and buy more cane to fill the tonage shortfall?

afew years ago i knew a local (thai) that put alot of borrowed money into a set price cane business, he bought lorries and tractors/grabs ect... could not get enough cane delivered and lost it all, plus..house/pickup/farm ect still had to find more money to pay back the main buyer, he is still in south korea working of the debt, this was 4/5 years ago

Our roads are the same very quite, but saying  that a lot of cane is hauled at night time ,no police about pulling up over loaded trucks ,I often see empty trucks coming past our house in the morning.  

  Around here  it is due to low rainfall last year, yields are down by 50 % 2-5 ton cane/rie is common this year ,on what you are saying this area is probably glad we do not have any weigh stations .

As far as I know it is still 750 baht /ton ,started to see a few loads of burnt cane about ,I would say they are having cutter problems ,cutters can not make they money cutting un-burnt cane,and the growers having to pay  a lot more to cut said cane.

So , some growers back to burning ,cutters happy can make more money ,growers happy paying less ,even with the cutters earning more ,growers are still paying less than before . 

[thoongfoned]

17 hours ago, kickstart said:

Our roads are the same very quite, but saying  that a lot of cane is hauled at night time ,no police about pulling up over loaded trucks ,I often see empty trucks coming past our house in the morning.  

  Around here  it is due to low rainfall last year, yields are down by 50 % 2-5 ton cane/rie is common this year ,on what you are saying this area is probably glad we do not have any weigh stations .

As far as I know it is still 750 baht /ton ,started to see a few loads of burnt cane about ,I would say they are having cutter problems ,cutters can not make they money cutting un-burnt cane,and the growers having to pay  a lot more to cut said cane.

So , some growers back to burning ,cutters happy can make more money ,growers happy paying less ,even with the cutters earning more ,growers are still paying less than before . 

on a good year they average 5/6 ton rai here (min vits added, bit of weed killer ect..) land next to where we live, this year they did not even average 2 ton per rai, spent zero baht on the crop this past season, this is the 2nd year in the ground, 1st year was around 5/6 ton, afew bags of vits thrown about... they sell it to a firm that cut and haul themselves,  4 lady cutters not even one days work to cut and bundle (not tie up) this plot was burned,  2 grab tractors plus lorry and drag unit, not full, 1 other lorry and drag was waiting, went away empty..

the family that have took over most of the wifes land do a better job, about 10 ton arai this year from one of the plots they rent, other plots also looked good, they spend money on vits and weed killer ect... same plot 2 years ago did not even average 2 ton rai, different family renting before.

family that used to rent this land ^ are still big in the cane game, they must be making money from somewhere coz they have laid some bahts down as a  deposit on some land the wife wants to sell and are talking about some more rai they want to buy.... they get paided out for the bulk of their cane delivery just before april, i will be happy when the rest of the bahts have changed hands... 

couple that  work for the wife doing odd jobs about the place are "moon lighting" as cane cutters, husdand and wife (hard workers) are lucky to hit 500 baht a day between them, are cleaning lady is still cutting and lucky to earn 200 a day she says, all moan about how hard the work is...

[farmerjo]

On 1/13/2020 at 6:49 PM, farmerjo said:

Drove past a couple of weigh stations today and it's getting busy.

Highest price i saw was 930 baht,some still at 750.

That price is up to 1000 baht today although most still around 850 plus.

 

 

 

[kickstart]

22 hours ago, farmerjo said:

That price is up to 1000 baht today although most still around 850 plus.

 

 

 

And they are paying cash ,as you said must be trying to fill they quota ,with the low yields  this year ,they must have over budgeted on how much cane they can send to the mill ,not only the cane is getting burnt but they fingers as well ?.

Still 750 baht/ton around here ,looks if the sugar mills and the government are not helping out this year ,they where rumors of 50 baht/ton sub. 

Any one know ,from TV 3-4 years ago a farang and his Thai wife  who started a weigh station in Issan ,how they  are  getting on 

[farmerjo]

I think for memory they sold it after year one.

I also think one of the main reasons for the cash weigh stations is temporary storage and farmers who do not have loans,quota's with the factories,the mills are at maximum daily capacity here.

And it keeps a lot of the smaller trucks away from the mills therefore making unloading and throughput more efficient with the larger triaxle trailer loads.

The factories still have have their own weigh bridge points in each zone for those farmers with direct contract quota's,they can dump there and transport cost is taken out of payment,when you finally get paid.

Are your mills Mitr Phol KS or different operators.  

[kickstart]

12 hours ago, farmerjo said:

I think for memory they sold it after year one.

I also think one of the main reasons for the cash weigh stations is temporary storage and farmers who do not have loans,quota's with the factories,the mills are at maximum daily capacity here.

And it keeps a lot of the smaller trucks away from the mills therefore making unloading and throughput more efficient with the larger triaxle trailer loads.

The factories still have have their own weigh bridge points in each zone for those farmers with direct contract quota's,they can dump there and transport cost is taken out of payment,when you finally get paid.

Are your mills Mitr Phol KS or different operators.  

Our mills are the TRR group ,Thai Roong Ruang Sugar group ,they have 9 mills about the country ,2 near us .

Wife's  grand daughters boyfriend works at our local mill ,he said last year they handled 4 million ton of cane ,so far this year they have recived 500 k ton ,with a large percent done around here they are well down .

[URMySunshine]

On 12/2/2019 at 11:29 PM, wayned said:

I live in the last house middle of sugar cane  and corn fields.  I went out with the dogs a few minutes ago and the hills in the distance were ablaze, so, at least the mill near me, has not stopped buying burnt cane.  Most of the cane here is still cut by hand and , in addition to the fact that burnt cane can be cut faster, it also costs more to cut.  Years ago when I had sugar a bundle of 20 stalks cut and tied with cane leafs cost 1.5 baht while a stack of 10 un-burnt stalks cut an bundled cost 3 baht.  The un-burnt cane weighed more but didn't offset the additional costs.

Those costs are being transferred elsewhere though. That would be my 8500 baht air purifier I have just forked out for. And the 50,000 baht I won't be spending as I go back to the UK a month early. etc etc. And of course the intangible cost of a quality of life one can have in Thailand that is forever compromised if the air goes to pot. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by URMySunshine

[GarryP]

On 1/3/2020 at 6:44 PM, farmerjo said:

Straight across the road today and a first for this area.

I'd say today ran at a loss for the contractor,3 hours to load one truck with not more then 4 rai.

3 other trucks on standby left empty handed.

 

 

 

Could it be possible that only one truck was needed because the cane is cut up very small and as a result you can get much more on a truck than when harvested by hand. The savings in transportation would be good too.    

[farmerjo]

5 hours ago, GarryP said:

Could it be possible that only one truck was needed because the cane is cut up very small and as a result you can get much more on a truck than when harvested by hand. The savings in transportation would be good too.    

Sadly no.

The Thai's are kings for hand packing full length cane on trucks.

[kickstart]

5 hours ago, GarryP said:

Could it be possible that only one truck was needed because the cane is cut up very small and as a result you can get much more on a truck than when harvested by hand. The savings in transportation would be good too.    

As FJ said no,that is one problem with machine cut cane ,you get less weight on a truck ,it does not pack down like hand cut cane ,so they would be more trucks on the road than before if all cane was cut by machine .

All the years I have been here it still makes me smile seeing all these loaded truck of stacked cane going up the road ,they are king's, especially if it is being hauled by an old Ford 6600.