pookondee Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 On one hand, the Thai government originally might have had the best of intentions in mind with the idea. Help out expats while in Thailand and solve the supposed crisis of foriegners not paying bills However, it seems they have handed complete control over to the insurance companies on how to implement it. At a glance, the model they have come up with seems to be destined for failure on both accounts. It seems they have opted for a very small maximum cover of 400k baht for one reason: So the company can avoid having to pay out any high claims. The other equally questionable part is the 40,000 outpatient thing. Most will probably never fully use this, and i have my suspicions, it is simply there to lift the price of the premium up.. In effect, what they will be doing is raking in maximum baht while only risking 400k payout per patient. And of course they will obviously have many clauses they can use to knock-back any possible claims. So, if your up the duff for 1-5 million, you are still paying it all yourself...or doing a runner. The whopping 400k the insurance gives you won't be much good in that case. So how will this help hospitals? For most of us, if disaster strikes we can easily afford a 40,000 baht bill. We dont need to be throwing away 40-50k per year to be insured for an amount we can already afford. I thought the whole point of insurance was to be covered for a huge amount you cannot pay? Really i cant see ANY point to this insurance at all. People will have no choice to default bills of over 1million if they havent got the dime to pay... cant get blood out of a stone, right? Anyway, i guess its possible im looking at this the wrong way. So i ask you: will it work for you? will it work at all? Or has the idea basically been hijacked and turned into a huge scam by the insurance companies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petermik Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 It is just another scam to rip off tourists/expats here nothing more....there is not a hospital here that will treat a tourist unless payment is guaranteed up front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazar Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, petermik said: It is just another scam to rip off tourists/expats here nothing more....there is not a hospital here that will treat a tourist unless payment is guaranteed up front I went to Hua Hin hospital recently and was asked to pay ONLY after they had done the work, no mention of prepayment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookondee Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 31 minutes ago, Chazar said: I went to Hua Hin hospital recently and was asked to pay ONLY after they had done the work, no mention of prepayment. To be fair i reckon there would be a bit of "sizing up" involved as well. Turn up there looking like something a soi dog dragged out of a klong and it might be a different story ? Anyways, i thought expats at HuaHin had a slightly better reputation than other certain places? Certainly not the demographic that has a high risk of doing a runner on a bill anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlandtday Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 This is a joke. This "crisis" has been created to not only scapegoat and persist Thai xenophobia but to open the door for someone in the insurance business to make a fortune off foreigners. Like Rahm Emmanuel liked to say with Obama "never waste a good crisis". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazar Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 14 minutes ago, pookondee said: Turn up there looking like something a soi dog dragged out of a klong Thats EXACTLY how I turned up, i kid you not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jollyhangmon Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, pookondee said: will it work for you? ... nope, as far as I'm concerned they can get their mothers to buy into that scam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 For most people it is no 40-50 K. Premiums are in the 6 figures by the time you are 70 and shoot upward from there. The highest I have seen is over 400,000 baht for age 85. (yes - premium 400k for 400/40 in cover. Completely unbeleivable). Definitely will not work. The policies are very badly designed and the companies for the most part clueless and inept with no real understanding of health insurance. The law is absurdly written; people with low cover policies that exclude virtually every possible disease are accepted and people with solid high cover, no exclusion policies are not. Completely wrong way to go about it. And then there is the huge question of what people who cannot get this "insurance" will end up doing. It is not a small number, between age and pre-existing conditions. I suppose those that leave will be viewed as a "success" but many will manage to stay one way or the other...different visa type, agent etc. It will certainly deter new people from retiring here and I suppose from Imm and MoPH standpoint that is a a "win" of sorts. but that trend was already well underway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofthemountain Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, pookondee said: Or has the idea basically been hijacked and turned into a huge scam by the insurance companies? Yep you get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody55 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I have heard of some cases where the insurance has not paid for the medical expenses, in which case what happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Ridiculous. Insurance is suppose to provide certainty, the whole thing is riddled with uncertainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritManToo Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, pookondee said: It seems they have opted for a very small maximum cover of 400k baht for one reason: So the company can avoid having to pay out any high claims. The other equally questionable part is the 40,000 outpatient thing. Both amounts set by the Thai government, nothing to do with the insurance companies. Designed as a scam by the government right from the start to line the pockets of their pals owning insurance companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookondee Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Chazar said: Thats EXACTLY how I turned up, i kid you not. ha. I guess you would be excused looking a little rough if run over by a took-took. But Im talking about if they size you up as a "kee-nok" that lives on Mama noodles in a 3000baht fan room and cant pay the bill. Ive actually found Thais to be eerily accurate in how they assess some farangs, even after not knowing them very long. Im sure you dont fit in the keenok class! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookondee Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Sheryl said: For most people it is no 40-50 K. Premiums are in the 6 figures by the time you are 70 and shoot upward from there. The highest I have seen is over 400,000 baht for age 85. (yes - premium 400k for 400/40 in cover. Completely unbeleivable). Definitely will not work. The policies are very badly designed and the companies for the most part clueless and inept with no real understanding of health insurance. The law is absurdly written; people with low cover policies that exclude virtually every possible disease are accepted and people with solid high cover, no exclusion policies are not. Completely wrong way to go about it. And then there is the huge question of what people who cannot get this "insurance" will end up doing. It is not a small number, between age and pre-existing conditions. I suppose those that leave will be viewed as a "success" but many will manage to stay one way or the other...different visa type, agent etc. It will certainly deter new people from retiring here and I suppose from Imm and MoPH standpoint that is a a "win" of sorts. but that trend was already well underway. Thanks for posting that. The concept seems even more ridiculous each time posters who are in the know, (Sheryl being number 1) point out the facts and obvious flaws. They cant seriously expect a guy to pay a 400k premium per annum for cover of 400k ?? I think if they persist with this nonsense, they will have to set up some sort of 'Insurance tribunal' to look at abnormal cases like that as they come up. Then do case by case assessments and make adjustments that work for each particular case. If they just wipe their hands of it, and old guys are forced to leave wives, homes and families after XX years being here.. well that must nearly be enchroaching on human rights issues, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puchaiyank Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Once one comes to terms with being a member of the easily exploited club, then it comes as no big surprise that one must purchase mandatory worthless insurance in order to remain in paradise...???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pookondee Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Puchaiyank said: Once one comes to terms with being a member of the easily exploited club, then it comes as no big surprise that one must purchase mandatory worthless insurance in order to remain in paradise...???? Never believed in insurance and have managed to avoid life's larger scams. So if its truly heading that way then im surely re-thinking my idea of what is Paradise! There must come a stage where paradise is not worth all of this. and being home, where you can actually feel like you belong.. not get chucked out at some ××××heads small minded whim... Yes, its starting to look very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimHuaHin Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 I am 64 years young and have IMG international health insurance (which I have had for 6 years, the time I have been in Thailand), which covers all bar 10 expensive countries in the world. My current premium is just over US$2,800 pa, and I have up to US$5 million life-time coverage. I have had no problems in Thailand claiming with this policy; no problems at hospitals, no problems with IMG. I just came back from Hua Hin Immigration - I asked whether I can use my IMG policy - NO!!! You have to use one of the companies listed at http://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa . My policy has no age limit or conditions for renewal, unlike many of the companies listed at the above web site. I also note that my current policy is much cheaper than most similar policies listed with companies at the above web site. As several TV members have noted, the new policy creates more problems than it solves; and certainly creating a lot of stress amongst expats living in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkcanuck8 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 On 11/28/2019 at 1:14 PM, pookondee said: On one hand, the Thai government originally might have had the best of intentions in mind with the idea. Help out expats while in Thailand and solve the supposed crisis of foriegners not paying bills However, it seems they have handed complete control over to the insurance companies on how to implement it. At a glance, the model they have come up with seems to be destined for failure on both accounts. The implementation is bad. They should require insurance but it should just be under the same insurance program that Thais have (and mandatory - collected in advance for the year at time of renewal or issue/90 day report) -- just at a higher rate (i.e. unsubsidized public coverage adjusted yearly based on deficit/surplus of previous year). If you want to top it up with private insurance coverage, that would be an additional option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennine Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 And you don't even mention those who are over 75 and cannot get the insuance anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krabi local Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 I have happily been with BUPA (now Aetna) for several years and my hospital cover is a lot more than the basic 400,000 required. I recently enquired about adding the 40,000 of OPD to my current policy. Apparently I will have to pay nearly an extra 20,000 premium for the cover. <deleted> ? That is 50% of the total cover just for the premium. In fairness they have offered me a different policy that covers the basic requirements and that is still 10,000 more than my current policy. Sorry Aetna I will not be renewing or recommending you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 On 11/28/2019 at 3:10 PM, Nobody55 said: I have heard of some cases where the insurance has not paid for the medical expenses, in which case what happens? You are stuck with the bill. Though you can appeal/complain to the OIC and I'd probably try that first if you think the company is in the wrong i.e. it was not for a clearly excluded condition.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest5829 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 What I like is, insisting that I buy the health insurance that will exclude my biggest risk and thus will not pay the bill. So, you figure I will buy this extortion rather than seeking alternatives, Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNROAMIN Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 On 11/28/2019 at 1:21 PM, petermik said: It is just another scam to rip off tourists/expats here nothing more....there is not a hospital here that will treat a tourist unless payment is guaranteed up front Correct, the whole insurance thing is a scam by the government and the Thai elite community, who run this place and not to mention own most of the Health Insurance companies. This place is still strong running on corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerandDog Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Have to say I agree with the whole thing being a scam to line the pockets of the insurance companies. I give you this example, I had cartilage removed from both knees in 1989, yet the health insurance company I am with ( signed up earlier this year ) is treating this as a pre-existing condition and has excluded any kind of treatment that might involve my knees unless it is broken or fractured bones. Pre-existing conditions are ONLY supposed to be conditions that you have had treated in the 3 - 5 years preceding signing up. How can they justify something that occurred 30 years ago as being a pre-existing condition? Also be aware that some of the approved Thai companies have affordable plans that meet the requirements, but those plans were not submitted for approval. I wonder why that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 "Really i cant see ANY point to this insurance at all" It is there solely to make money for insurance companies, and there are others with their fingers in the pie. We are the westerners, the walking ATMs, the easiest targets for the Thai authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expattaff1308 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 35 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said: Correct, the whole insurance thing is a scam by the government and the Thai elite community, who run this place and not to mention own most of the Health Insurance companies. This place is still strong running on corruption. I can get the minimum cover required for half the premium asked for by the chosen few...it's just a rip off. Now Phuket hospitals has confirmed what other hospitals have said and what we have all been saying Tourists are the those who leave without payment. along with workers from adjoining Asean countries. All said and done where goes a retired expat run to other than his Thai home. But the authorities have decided it is the Expat who has to foot the bill via exceptionally high premiums from the chosen Insurance companies. I appreciate the OA situation in the regard you can stay here for 2 yrs without showing funds, but after that any stay requires showing funds of some kind. We jump through the financial hoops and they just keep adding more, retirees just dont need this added stress!! Can be solved simply by making sure tourists & foreign workers purchase health/ Accident insurance and grandfathering those on OAs prior to Oct 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ireland32 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 On 11/28/2019 at 1:21 PM, petermik said: It is just another scam to rip off tourists/expats here nothing more....there is not a hospital here that will treat a tourist unless payment is guaranteed up front ITS baloney it’s a rip off , when I go to A bkK Hospital I’m escorted to cashier , it’s a scam just charge everybody 100b every entry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 23 hours ago, pookondee said: Thanks for posting that. The concept seems even more ridiculous each time posters who are in the know, (Sheryl being number 1) point out the facts and obvious flaws. They cant seriously expect a guy to pay a 400k premium per annum for cover of 400k ?? I think if they persist with this nonsense, they will have to set up some sort of 'Insurance tribunal' to look at abnormal cases like that as they come up. Then do case by case assessments and make adjustments that work for each particular case. If they just wipe their hands of it, and old guys are forced to leave wives, homes and families after XX years being here.. well that must nearly be enchroaching on human rights issues, surely? What regard for human rights does Thailand have anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expattaff1308 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 When Insurance was first raised they said there would be a provision (finance) for those who was unable to get insurance whether thro cost, pre conditions or age, that seems to have been lost as Sheryl says from somewhere between the planning to the implementation of this new rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ54 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 My friend is in the process of extending Non-OA. From what I was told health check was iffy... BUT they can help with a policy 75,000 baht a year.... wonder if you get free Kant saY jelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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