Retirement Extension (w/11 months of 65K Transfers)

[bangkokgalaxy]

Hello Everyone,

 

My first Non-O Retirement Visa expires on 1/1/2020 (for which I used an income affidavit from the US Embassy in 2018).

 

Since February 2019 I've been making monthly 65k transfers from the US into Bangkok Bank. As a detail, the bank statement notes these transfers as "Interbank Transfers via SMART (I use a company called TransferWise).

 

The big question: when I apply for an extension in a couple weeks, I will have only 11 months of transfers completed by mid-December. What should I expect and what are my options?

 

Here's what I've gathered from my research:

 

Go To Bangkok Immigration/Use monthly income + bank balance. Before I apply for my extension in a couple weeks, can I first transfer an additional 100k baht from the US on December 1, then combine that with my 11 monthly transfers? This would be 11 transfers @ 65k + an exra 100k Baht bank balance. I've heard that getting approval for the "monthly transfers + bank balance" method varies from office to office. 

 

Income sources other than a pension. My transfers originate from my US bank and derive from passive overseas business income, not a pension or social security (I've heard some immigration offices want a letter validating the source of income, so I don't know how to handle that if it comes up)

 

If Bangkok rejects, go to KL. If I first apply in Bangkok - and immigration does not approve - I've heard that Kuala Lumpur only requires 6 months of monthly 65k transfers to receive a 3-month retirement extension. Has anyone had experience with this?

 

Then, if I extend for 3-months in Kuala Lumpur, I'd continue making 65k deposits and reapply for 1-year extension in Bangkok after the 3-month extension expires and I have the required 12 months of transfers in place.

 

Other options if these fail? I need to determine my fallback plan if these do not work prior to Jan 1.

 

Are there other embassies that accept either "11 months of 65k transfers" or the "transfers + bank balance" method? 

 

If all else fails, can I extend my current retirement visa for 30 days, until end of January, when I'd have the final 12th transfer in place?

 

Like so many of us, the end of income affidavit letters caught me by surprise. I was also counting on some "leniency" for being one month short, based on public immigration statements earlier this year.

 

Thank you in advance!

 



 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by bangkokgalaxy

[DrJack54]

OP, your so wrong on so many of your questions. Extensions of stay (12 month) are granted within Thailand. You cannot extend anything at KL etc.

Since the end of income letters there was some leniency promised. Bit hit and miss. You should ask the imm office you attend.

Your last resort would be to obtain a non o at nearby embassy. 

BTW it's not "your first non o retirement Visa expires..." It's your 12 month permission of stay that expires soon. 

Which ever way it goes with your 11 instead of 12 month income, you could consider money in bank method next time.

Ask your imm office they might cut you some slack. 

[moontang]

Is there a seasoning period with the combo method?

[treetops]

SMART transfers are not international transfers, and Transferwise to Bangkok Bank would not usually show up this way.  Can you clarify?

 

Why didn't you make a transfer in January?  The leniency as I understand it was for those getting extensions and who couldn't get a year's worth since the changes were made.  You don't fall into that category so I'd be surprised if you're extended this leniency.

 

My suggestion would be to transfer 65K baht on the first day you can in 2020 and attend immigration for an extension the same day, claiming they were closed on the 1st and you came as soon as possible thereafter.

[bangkokgalaxy]

Unfortunately, the funds weren't transferred in January because of a bookkeeping oversight.

 

Transferwise is what my bookkeeper has been using to move money from my US bank to Bangkok Bank: https://transferwise.com/us. It's definitely coming in from overseas. 

 

Regarding your suggestion to transfer money in early January and visit immigration after my visa expires on Jan. 1, that would force me to overstay by several days. Wouldn't that be setting me up for problems?

Edited November 28, 2019 by bangkokgalaxy

[treetops]

19 minutes ago, bangkokgalaxy said:

Unfortunately, the funds weren't transferred in January because of a bookkeeping oversight.

You'll maybe just have to hope Thai Immigration will buy that.

 

19 minutes ago, bangkokgalaxy said:

Transferwise is what my bookkeeper has been using to move money from my US bank to Bangkok Bank: https://transferwise.com/us. It's definitely coming in from overseas.

The problem is that SMART indicates a domestic transfer.  Now it could be that Transferwise send it to another of their gateway banks in Thailand who then send it on to your BBL account (although that's unusual as BBL are a gateway bank too), but whatever happened, SMART is not good.  It can be traced back to an international transfer but it's more complicated than just going to your BBL branch and asking for a letter.

 

19 minutes ago, bangkokgalaxy said:

Regarding your suggestion to transfer money in early January and visit immigration after my visa expires on Jan. 1, that would force me to overstay by several days. Wouldn't that be setting me up for problems?

Maybe, it was just a suggestion after all, but addressing the overstay may be less problematic than any alternative if/when denied an extension.  Hopefully someone else will comment on the usual practice if renewals are due on a holiday and whether it is permitted to be late due to this.  Rather than several days, I was thinking to do it all on the 2nd January.

Edited November 28, 2019 by treetops

[treetops]

To add - the second point above may take time to resolve making the third point moot anyway.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, bangkokgalaxy said:

that would force me to overstay by several days. Wouldn't that be setting me up for problems?

I was chatting to a guy a few days ago who was advised to overstay (500 baht a day) in order to season his money for extension. I was surprised to hear it as I've never seen it on this forum. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by scubascuba3

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

I was chatting to a guy a few days ago who was advised to overstay (500 baht a day) in order to season his money for extension. I was surprised to hear it as I've never seen it on this forum. 

Some immigration office have suggested that when only a few days was needed.

But in the OP's case that would not be possible since he would need about a month.

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, moontang said:

Is there a seasoning period with the combo method?

Two months but the combination option would not help in the OP's case. To do a combination of money in the bank and income still requires 12 months of transfers.

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, bangkokgalaxy said:

Regarding your suggestion to transfer money in early January and visit immigration after my visa expires on Jan. 1, that would force me to overstay by several days. Wouldn't that be setting me up for problems?

That would not help in your case.

Since you will be applying at Chaeng Wattana immigration I think they will be flexible about not having 12 months of transfers. I suggest you try doing the application early next month after you do one more transfer.

If not accepted then since your extension expires the 1st of January you could apply on the 2nd without paying for an overstay fine since immigration will be closed on the 30th, 31st and 1st. In that case if you were able to do a transfer just before you apply that would give your 12 months. They might even accept one that went into the bank on the 30th or 31st (not bank holidays).

 

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Two months but the combination option would not help in the OP's case. To do a combination of money in the bank and income still requires 12 months of transfers.

Is the combo option still valid for retirement extension. I would like to transfer 50k per month = 600k a year and which I can use for day to day living expenses, and have 200k in the bank.

Edited November 29, 2019 by wgdanson

[Moonlover]

16 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Is the combo option still valid. I would like to transfer 50k per month = 600k a year and which I can use for day to day living expenses, and have 200k in the bank.

I'm hoping for a favourable answer to that as well. This coming year I'll be able to park 400K for a marriage extension. But if the compo method is still available I can get back onto retirement and reduce all this paperwork palaver.

[choff56]

Last week I did my Non-O retirement extension using the 65000 baht per month method In Samut Prakan and the Immigration Officer only wanted to see some kind of official proof of where my money came from and how much per month it was. He couldn't be bothered with looking at my bank letter or passbook with documentation of my monthly transfers.

[mtls2005]

I was granted an ext stay/ret (income) in late Sep at CW based on Nine (9) Qualifying Foreign Transfers (QFT: Jan - Sep) (SWIFT to Bangkok Bank, showing as "FTT"). I started transfers in early January, 2019. I inferred I was given "leniency".

 

Assuming your transfers are QFTs, then I assume you would be granted an Ext Stay/Ret/Inc in Mid to late December, based on leniency?

 

For documentation I used:

 

BBL QFT Letter (totals all QFTs) for the period on one line - obtained at BBL HQ, while I waited, a few days before I went for my ext.

Copies of passbook pages with QFTs

Original passbooks

Account Ownership Letter - obtained  the day before I went for my ext

Balance Forward update in current passbook day of ext

 

 

I had back-up for the "source" of the "income", but that was not asked for. I wouldn't obsess too much here - just something from your transmitting bank should be sufficient. Most of us doing SWIFT transfers will not be able to exactly match "income" to transfers. My income is greater than that which I choose to transfer ($2,250), but I was prepared to back up both transfers and income (1099-SSA/Annuity statements).

 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, wgdanson said:

Is the combo option still valid for retirement extension. I would like to transfer 50k per month = 600k a year and which I can use for day to day living expenses, and have 200k in the bank.

Yes is is still allowed and is shown in the police orders.

Some offices are balking at doing it when you are using transfers into the country to prove your income. I assume they don't want to total up your annual income to calculate the amount you need in the bank.

[wgdanson]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes is is still allowed and is shown in the police orders.

Some offices are balking at doing it when you are using transfers into the country to prove your income. I assume they don't want to total up your annual income to calculate the amount you need in the bank.

Thanks, just what I wanted to hear. But of course, the IO has got a calculator to work out 12 x 50 ! And then subtract that from 800.

 

Can the money in the bank be seasoned in the same way ie the full amount 2 months before and 3 months after and 50% for the next 7 months?

Edited November 29, 2019 by wgdanson

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes is is still allowed and is shown in the police orders.

Some offices are balking at doing it when you are using transfers into the country to prove your income. I assume they don't want to total up your annual income to calculate the amount you need in the bank.

Maybe it's worthwhile adding up the 12 monthly transfers and balance for them on a sheet of A4 using excel. So it's easy for the IO to check and sign off

[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

Maybe it's worthwhile adding up the 12 monthly transfers and balance for them on a sheet of A4 using excel. So it's easy for the IO to check and sign off

Doesn't the letter you get from your bank at year end show this?

Example taken from a previos post on this.

Example-BankLetter-Monthly-Deposits.pdf

[scubascuba3]

3 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Doesn't the letter you get from your bank at year end show this?

Example taken from a previos post on this.

Example-BankLetter-Monthly-Deposits.pdf 67.59 kB · 1 download

Yes, but make it really easy for the IO to see it adds up to 800k+, just an idea

[mtls2005]

3 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Doesn't the letter you get from your bank at year end show this?

 

In my case, no, it did not. My Bangkok Bank QFT letter simply totalled all QFTs into one single line:

 

date range    currency (USD)     total (USD)     gross (THB)

 

 

[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

Yes, but make it really easy for the IO to see it adds up to 800k+, just an idea

I doubt whether my IO has ever heard of Excel!

From past posts, all they want to see is 12 x ??k in your bank book, all as FTTs, a letter from the bank confirming this, and deduct that total from 800k and make sure you had that in the bank as seasoning requires. 

[wgdanson]

5 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

In my case, no, it did not. My Bangkok Bank QFT letter simply totalled all QFTs into one single line:

 

date range    currency (USD)     total (USD)     gross (THB)

 

 

Then ask the bank to do it differently. Take a copy of the one I attached, which is from Bkk Bank.

 

What does QFT stand for please? I am guessing at Qualifying Foreign Transfer.

Edited November 29, 2019 by wgdanson

[mtls2005]

43 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

For documentation I used:

 

BBL QFT Letter (totals all QFTs) for the period on one line - obtained at BBL HQ, while I waited, a few days before I went for my ext.

Copies of passbook pages with QFTs

Original passbooks

Account Ownership Letter - obtained  the day before I went for my ext

Balance Forward update in current passbook day of ext

 

Note that I also had:

 

Nine (9) Individual Credit Advice/Receipts from Bangkok Bank (these show the details and source of the QFT)

My own print-out (from Excel) which showed all the details and total from my QFTs - this did elicit a favorable response from the initial IO, and was retained

 

 

[mtls2005]

Just now, wgdanson said:

Then ask the bank to do it differently. Take a copy of the one I attached, which is from Bkk Bank.

 

 

I did take that sample copy to Bangkok Bank HQ, 333 Silom Rd.

 

The supervising CSR said that CW wanted a new style/format. I chose not to disagree with her, and respectfully accepted the letter after she reassured me that it was acceptable.

 

As my ext was granted I can only assume that it was (acceptable).

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

5 hours ago, bangkokgalaxy said:

Transferwise is what my bookkeeper has been using to move money from my US bank to Bangkok Bank: https://transferwise.com/us. It's definitely coming in from overseas. 

No it is not coming in from overseas - Transferwise pays from a local Thai account and Bangkok Bank will not list it as foreign unless made from the account they hold.  The order for payment is from overseas but to be sure that is listed your bookkeeper needs to select the correct reason for payment (stay in Thailand which is last listed option).  Obviously they have not done so.

 

For upcoming extension I would have a bank printout deposits for the last year and letter that account is yours.  I would have copies of my US bank statements showing money sent for additional questions as to source in lieu of pension statements.

Edited November 29, 2019 by lopburi3

[wgdanson]

I just got my extension using over GBP 24k in a Foreign Currency Account. If I transfer 65k a month from that account to my current or say 50k a month and still leave over 200k in GBP, could it not be construed that it came from abroad? Just thinking.

Edited November 29, 2019 by wgdanson

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

I just got my extension using over GBP 24k in a Foreign Currency Account. If I transfer 65k a month from that account to my current or say 50k a month and still leave over 200k in GBP, could it not be construed that it came from abroad? Just thinking.

 

Not as far as next year’s extension is concerned.

[john terry1001]

5 hours ago, bangkokgalaxy said:

Transferwise is what my bookkeeper has been using to move money from my US bank to Bangkok Bank: https://transferwise.com/us. It's definitely coming in from overseas. 

The transfers come from outside Thailand via Transferwise. But they can use any one of three Thai partner banks to send the transfer to your Thai account, Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn and TMB. If the transfer goes directly to your BBL account it will have a FTT coding, which is an international transfer code. However, if it is sent initially via Kasikorn or TMB then immediately forwarded to your BBL account it will have a SMART coding, which is an internal (within Thailand) transfer, and not show as an international transfer.

 

Since February Transferwise have set up a simple process you can use to ensure all transfers are set up to go directly to your BBL account and show a FTT code. Your bookkeeper is obviously not aware of this.

 

Some IO's will accept the monthly Transferwise PDF's as proof of an international transfer but some won't. If they won't you will need to get credit advice receipts for each SMART transfer that came from the partner banks.

[scubascuba3]

28 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

I doubt whether my IO has ever heard of Excel!

From past posts, all they want to see is 12 x ??k in your bank book, all as FTTs, a letter from the bank confirming this, and deduct that total from 800k and make sure you had that in the bank as seasoning requires. 

Sounds simple enough but if they get slightly fazed it brings a denial into play