Thai Tourism: "Half of foreigners" don't pay their hospital bills; director points finger at three nationalities

[CNXexpat]

Perhaps I can leave a shop without paying, but they could make it more difficult to leave a hospital without paying. Or take a deposit like a phone or passport if the customers have not enough money in the purse, no credit card and no bank card

[uncleeagle]

56 minutes ago, Seismic said:

Seriously, Adding insurance to your exotic overseas trip is not that expensive. I doubt it will put a dent in tourist numbers, after all scams, ripoffs, unsolved crimes, and the huge numbers of sick buffalo's do not seem to have done much to those numbers.

 

that should be true and very good travel insurance policies cost very little. mine is less than 2000 baht annually and its coverage is far superior to the ones over age 50 non OA visa applicants and extenders now have to buy, but for 25 times the price.

 

so although what you said should be true, when the required insurance has to be bought from government approved thai insurance companies at an obscenely inflated price, the statement becomes patently false.

Edited November 29, 2019 by uncleeagle

[vivananahuahin]

Retirees have an insurance and a very good insurance,everything pay until the last baht,it is not the good rule to let the old take a thai insurance die cover only 400.000 and some with deductible 300.000,the most dangerous in Thailand are the tourist visa between 20 and 40,let they pay 100 baht with the visa stamp,like they say 40.000.000 passengers x100 baht it is a lot of money and the hospitals will be pay in case of no payment of the bills,i know one thing that the private hospitals ask first before beginning the treatment if you have an tyravel insurance or credit card,if not you c

[bdenner]

"Half of foreigners" don't pay their hospital bills!!

 

Where does the "Minister for Dodgy Statistics" get this sort of garbage from? Should be checking his/her own meds! Definitely on something.

I have lived here for >19 years and can only identify 2 Farang doing runners on medical bills = both were losers and (sadly) burnt in a paupers cremation.

Ever tried to seek medical attention at a hospital without producing your passport?

All the medical facility needs to do is contact Immigration and there you have it - Don't need to be a brain surgeon to figure what happens next!

Edited November 29, 2019 by bdenner

[Swimfan]

6 minutes ago, murphya33 said:

My understanding is that its 9000 foreigners just for one hospital in Phuket. The 448 million figure is for the whole of Thailand.

????

[Pattaya46]

59 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

I had a chat with a Thai doctor from Sapphasit/Ubon R, but he said something totally different.

The majority were from neighboring countries like Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar. 

Many people from neighbouring countries coming there for work,

but very unsure there are so many of them in Phuket, where the stats come from.

No surprise for me that Phuket hospitals have a far higher percent of tourists.

[Barry343]

By the report it states that tourists are the blame not the retirees. All retirees have sufficent funds in their Thai bank accounts to cover the 400000 baht need by insurance. The older retiree if they can get insurance will be losing up to 100000 plus dead money for unwarrented insurance. 

[Vacuum]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

One major hospital director in Phuket has even said 50% of tourists leave Thailand without paying up. 

Yes, what do you expect when you triple the price for foreigners?

[WalkingOrders]

Well I was ready to be outraged at my own countrymen, but thankfully, I am happy to see that Americans did not make the top three list. I hope that any further investigations on the part of Thai authorities show that retired expats, of any nationality, are not stiffing the Thai Government. 

[ravip]

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

While I agree wholeheartedly that anyone who uses a hospital should pay their bill, I think a major point is being overlooked. Tourism generates billions of dollars for the economy. Tourism is also by all accounts other than TAT in sharp decline. That number may well reduce further if every tourist has to pay out for an insurance policy, which may or may not cover problems they encounter. Maybe they should weigh the 448 million baht against the potential tens of billions they might lose.

Do you suggest free medical treatment for all tourists/foreigners? Could you please name any other country that does this? Tourists to the West needs insurance...

[seasia]

Complete and utter nonsense.

 

Racist xenophobic country.

[Mango Bob]

It is the tourist who are not paying their bills.  But Immigrations take it out on those of use who live here.    The government does not know who doing it but they blame it all on those with O/A visas yet it tourist who come here with short term visas who are the ones.   They leave and go home but he are here to retire for life.  I hope this countries goes into a deep economic slowdown it never comes out of.  Immigrations is so stupid it does not know who is not paying but they blame us lifers here.  

[DLock]

18 minutes ago, bdenner said:

"Half of foreigners" don't pay their hospital bills!!

 

Where does the "Minister for Dodgy Statistics" get this sort of garbage from? Should be checking his/her own meds! Definitely on something.

I have lived here for >19 years and can only identify 2 Farang doing runners on medical bills = both were losers and (sadly) burnt in a paupers cremation.

Ever tried to seek medical attention at a hospital without producing your passport?

All the medical facility needs to do is contact Immigration and there you have it - Don't need to be a brain surgeon to figure what happens next!

Hospitals cannot retain passports by law. A simple call to your embassy will get your passport back very quickly. Not saying it's so easy with motorcycle rental or dodgy hotels, but for public hospitals, it's just a phone call.

 

When a foreigner doesn't pay a bill, it's not a crime. It becomes a civil case and the hospital must go through the court process. Immigration can sometimes help, but they are slow and also require a lot of proof and paperwork. Customers are often long gone.

 

So, I understand their frustration, but it comes down to mismanagement and poor policies. If people not have money, don't accept them.

[Andrew65]

1 hour ago, Isaanbiker said:

That's an average of 50,000 baht for each foreigner. Land of Lies?

 

I had a chat with a Thai doctor from Sapphasit/Ubon R, but he said something totally different.

 

  The majority were from neighboring countries like Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar. 

In the scheme of things 50k Baht ain't that much for medical stuff, even in Thailand.

 

Two examples I can give, one a tourist, one an expat;

 

An old friend who had a colon bypass some years ago paid 1 million ++ Baht for that. He's a wealthy guy, so no problem.

 

A holidaymaker friend from Scotland was fully covered by travel insurance when he contracted meningitus and almost died in Bangkok, that bill was 2 million Baht ++. (The travel insurance company sent a doctor & nurse to escort him back to Scotland. During the medical tests it turned out that he had a pre-existing perforated heart valve, subsequently fixed in Scotland).

 

The costs of those two cases would skew the average in a big way.

Recently it was suggested that the minimum cover for compulsory insurance would be 400,000 Baht.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Andrew65

[FarangULong]

49 minutes ago, allencraig said:

I'm surprised no one has questioned the validity of "half of all foreigners are not paying their hospital bills." HALF? Of all foreigners who come to Thailand and visit a hospital? Really? I find that statistic very hard to believe.

 This obviously means "half of the foreigners who have used medical care services". But I guess for some people everything has to be spelled out.

[ravip]

1 minute ago, Mango Bob said:

It is the tourist who are not paying their bills.  But Immigrations take it out on those of use who live here.    The government does not know who doing it but they blame it all on those with O/A visas yet it tourist who come here with short term visas who are the ones.   They leave and go home but he are here to retire for life.  I hope this countries goes into a deep economic slowdown it never comes out of.  Immigrations is so stupid it does not know who is not paying but they blame us lifers here.  

I hope this countries goes into a deep economic slowdown it never comes out of.

Where would the poor from the 'developed' world come to retire, then?

[WalkingOrders]

49 minutes ago, allencraig said:

I'm surprised no one has questioned the validity of "half of all foreigners are not paying their hospital bills." HALF? Of all foreigners who come to Thailand and visit a hospital? Really? I find that statistic very hard to believe.

Perhaps this is a translation issue. I think it more likely that 1/2 of the total amount billed to foreigners goes unpaid. Rather then 1/2 of foreigners not paying. But I suppose its possible.

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, cmsally said:

Simply make it compulsory for those hiring motorbikes and doing watersports to purchase appropriate insurance when they hire the service in question. "attack by animals" ??!! don't know what to think about this one , is it by any chance stray dogs? In which case it is the municipalities job to sort out.

If bitten by a stray dog I agree with you. Thailand should pick up the tab for that.

We always buy holiday insurance when travelling and it isn't a bank breaker.

The average tourist doesn't because of the 'it only happens to others mindset'.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, ivor bigun said:

Every time i use the hospital the bill has to be paid upfront and i have cards for the hospital been going there for years

Private or govetnment?

 

This is standard practice at private hospitals but not usually govt.  In my experience Govt hospitals will ask you to pay up front for certain things like Xrays and scans but mostly it is pay after. If admitted in the hospital they will ask you to go pay the accrued bill every 2 - 3 days. Should you have surgery involved expensive device or equipment (stent,  titanium rods/screws etc) they'll present that bill very fast thereafter.

 

But with all of these if you don't pay, the won't throw you out or stop basic care. Unlike private hospitals.

 

Which combined withgenerallyweak abilities in billing and almost none ib 3rd party billing, is how govt hospitals end up out so much money.

 

I suspect some of the non paying patients actually had insurance but the hospital failed to do what they needed to to get direct payment or enable the patient to get reimbursed. It is a not inconsiderable amount of paperwork and govt hospitals generally have no clue and no staff assigned to it. Unlike private hospitals which have whole departments for it.

 

 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, WalkingOrders said:

Perhaps this is a translation issue. I think it more likely that 1/2 of the total amount billed to foreigners goes unpaid. Rather then 1/2 of foreigners not paying. But I suppose its possible.

 Though these are good things for as to talk about and discuss, the salient point made earlier by another poster and immediately occured to me when I read the OP is that according to the official statistics the average per turist cost to Thailand is about 12 bht.

12 BHT  IMO enough said. 

That people like the one quoted in the OP are running this country is simply embarrassing. 

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, Misterwhisper said:

How hilarious! Two of the three named nationalities are exactly the ones the tourism authorities want to attract in ever larger numbers.

 

The article says two different things.

 

That the top three tourist patients were French, Russian and Chinese.

 

That half of all (not just the ones in the top 3) tourist patients didn't pay their bills.

 

Any bets that it is mostly Chinese, but they don't want to say so?

 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Enoon

[bdenner]

4 minutes ago, DLock said:

Hospitals cannot retain passports by law. A simple call to your embassy will get your passport back very quickly. Not saying it's so easy with motorcycle rental or dodgy hotels, but for public hospitals, it's just a phone call.

 

When a foreigner doesn't pay a bill, it's not a crime. It becomes a civil case and the hospital must go through the court process. Immigration can sometimes help, but they are slow and also require a lot of proof and paperwork. Customers are often long gone.

 

So, I understand their frustration, but it comes down to mismanagement and poor policies. If people not have money, don't accept them.

Agreed BUT:-

This present administration are hell bent on blaming and financially penalizing we retired expats as easy targets for their missmanagement. Whether they like it or not MOST of us can AND DO pay our own way!

[WalkingOrders]

29 minutes ago, uncleeagle said:

 

that should be true and very good travel insurance policies cost very little. mine is less than 2000 baht annually and its coverage is far superior to the ones over age 50 non OA visa applicants and extenders now have to buy, but for 25 times the price.

 

so although what you said should be true, when the required insurance has to be bought from government approved thai insurance companies at an obscenely inflated price, the statement becomes patently false.

Yeah, I am 61 years old on an O-Visa extension, but have health insurance anyway, but I don't carry outpatient insurance because I can cover any outpatient cost out of pocket. I also carry a separate policy for accident insurance, which just as you said is far cheaper, and provides far more coverage. In my case if I had found I had a long term condition (disease or something) I would go home to USA where I am 100% covered as a Veteran.

 

I think its important that expats here realize that you can really beef yourself up for accidents using accident insurance instead of health insurance policies that cover for accident as well. As you say cheap I pay 2,700 Baht a year. More likely I fall down the stairs, then get dangerously sick, that's how I view it anyway. My health insurance runs nearly 4,000 THB a month. Yuck!

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, FarangULong said:

 This obviously means "half of the foreigners who have used medical care services". But I guess for some people everything has to be spelled out.

Not even that. I think it is half of all (or half of the total bills) using government hospitals.

 

Private hospitals know how to get their money and quite a few foreigners use private hospitals. Possibly most.

 

Those who use govt hospitsls -- especially tourists for whom they are difficult to manage (language etc)-- are often doing so for lack of funds or limited funds  to begin with. 

 

These complaints are coming solely from govt hospitals. 

[DLock]

10 minutes ago, bdenner said:

Agreed BUT:-

This present administration are hell bent on blaming and financially penalizing we retired expats as easy targets for their missmanagement. Whether they like it or not MOST of us can AND DO pay our own way!

 

100% agree with that.

 

We are a convenient cashcow of over-administrated collection of random payments and double standards...and it's not going to stop anytime soon.

[WalkingOrders]

24 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

I hope this countries goes into a deep economic slowdown it never comes out of. 

Wow. You don't really like it here in Thailand do you? If I harboured such hatred for the people here I would leave.

[Eligius]

I simply do not believe the claims. No way are 50% of tourists doing a runner from hospitals without paying their bills. This is a ludicrous claim.

 

Like so many things in Thailand (officialdom), these are utterly unbelievable figures conjured out of thin air - and always aimed at raking in more money.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Wow. You don't really like it here in Thailand do you? If I harboured such hatred for the people here I would leave.

I don't hate my Thai family, but I don't like the crooks running the country into the ground, and lying every time they open their mouths that much. Hatred is probably the wrong word, you do understand hatred and dislike are entirely different words with much different meanings?

Edited November 29, 2019 by BritManToo

[trigpoint]

53 minutes ago, ToddinChonburi said:

Funny after a motorbike accident my friend had to pay 20,000 cash to be admitted then use credit card for surgery. 

Me too, cash up front before any kind of treatment, although the compulsory insurance that you need payed out later. 

[WalkingOrders]

24 minutes ago, overherebc said:

If bitten by a stray dog I agree with you. Thailand should pick up the tab for that.

Then they would have to pick up the tab if someone trips over a crack in the sidewalk, an irregular height step, an exposed electrical wire shock, I guess the list could be endless, but as this isn't really a society filled with a million lawyers to plead the case I think it's doubtful. But I rather like living in a society not filled with a million lawyers.