Police shoot dead man who killed two in London stabbing, call it terrorist attack

[Orton Rd]

17 hours ago, simple1 said:

This is ridiculous = stop spinning! Really got to be the last post on this matter. Your and others accusations against me within this topic is based upon a false narrative than I am seeking to minimise / deflect regards Islamist terrorism in the UK. The reality is I provided facts that far right terrorism, at this time within the UK, is less than Islamist terrorism thereby countering Premiumlane's assertion to the contrary.

you ALWAYS seek to minimize, deflect and excuse Islamist attacks, and then claim you have not, posting quotes from far left sources about so called far right terrorism is just part of that. Why not concentrate on the subject which is Islamic terror and talk about the causes of it and what can be done to stop it. When people do talk about the inspiration for jihad in Islamic scripture you again dismiss that with excuses like well that was written down a long time after the prophets death, that is taken out of context or the good old you have to read it in Arabic to fully understand etc. The fact is Islamic scripture and the conduct of the prophet directly inspires these attacks. Cover a far right attack when it happens, but you might be waiting a long time.

[nkg]

On 11/30/2019 at 11:45 AM, simple1 said:

How about accepting I was providing you and others, if they are interested, factual reporting on the current far right terror threat in the U.K., rather than trying to be argumentative for no reason. Some quotes from the linked report I provided which indicate the level of resourcing that must be applied by HMG security forces rather than on Islamist terrorism.

 

A quarter of all terrorism arrests in the past year were linked to far-right violence.

 

A third of all terror plots to kill in Britain since 2017 – seven out of 22 – were by those driven by extreme-right causes.

 

Factual? More like lying by omission. Let's look at the FULL quote from The Guardian:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/19/fastest-growing-uk-terrorist-threat-is-from-far-right-say-police

 

Quote

 

A quarter of all terrorism arrests in the past year were linked to far-right violence.

The far-right caseload of counter-terrorism police jumped from 6% to 10% in the last two years.

Referrals to Prevent, the anti-radicalisation programme, had almost doubled between 2016 and 2018 for the far right, from 10% to 18%, and were expected to rise further.

A third of all terror plots to kill in Britain since 2017 – seven out of 22 – were by those driven by extreme-right causes.

 

 

10% of their caseload, eh? So what do counter-terrorism police spend the other 90% of their time investigating?

 

 

[ivor bigun]

1 hour ago, nkg said:

 

Factual? More like lying by omission. Let's look at the FULL quote from The Guardian:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/19/fastest-growing-uk-terrorist-threat-is-from-far-right-say-police

 

 

10% of their caseload, eh? So what do counter-terrorism police spend the other 90% of their time investigating?

 

 

Muslim terrorism,simple answer 

[ivor bigun]

19 hours ago, Becker said:

Link: London Bridge terrorist claimed he wanted to be deradicalised and become a 'good British citizen'

 

One could say he's finally achieved his goal...

Its the only way we can make them achieve it.

[4MyEgo]

On 11/30/2019 at 10:47 AM, baboon said:

Wearing a fake suicide vest is terrorism?

Now don't get me wrong - this homicidal maniac got what was coming to him - but the term 'terrorist' with all the implications that go with the term are rather too easily bandied about nowadays for my liking.

Um...

 

ter·ror·ist

/ˈterərəst/

Learn to pronounce

noun

 

1. a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

   "four commercial aircraft were hijacked by terrorists"

    

   But I get what your saying, i.e. something similar like, fear helps to control the masses, so throw the word terrorist out there as opposed to someone with mental health issues and you have achieved your objective.

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

you ALWAYS seek to minimize, deflect and excuse Islamist attacks, and then claim you have not, posting quotes from far left sources about so called far right terrorism is just part of that. Why not concentrate on the subject which is Islamic terror and talk about the causes of it and what can be done to stop it. When people do talk about the inspiration for jihad in Islamic scripture you again dismiss that with excuses like well that was written down a long time after the prophets death, that is taken out of context or the good old you have to read it in Arabic to fully understand etc. The fact is Islamic scripture and the conduct of the prophet directly inspires these attacks. Cover a far right attack when it happens, but you might be waiting a long time.

As usual you have made a number of false assertion, 'liked' by the usual fellow travellers. I have never sought to deflect or minimise the evil of Islamist terrorism. I have pushed back on numerous occasions when members make sweeping generalisations regards all Muslims / practitioners of the Islamic faith, Off topic, but I will mention my recent one month in India. My experience was the Muslims I came in contact with were a damn sight better people than all other groups, as is my experience with Thai Muslims.

 

Many Islamist terror groups have grown due to a number of reasons e.g. endemic corruption, dictatorships the evil of Salafi clerics and so on. Thankfully we are currently we are seeing the slowing tempo of Islamist terrorism in Western countries after the collapse of the ISIS Caliphate. As you well know the greatest number of deaths by terrorism are within Islamic majority countries, mainly based upon the Shiite - Sunni divide.  Fighting for power between tribes and various terror tribal based terror groups and so on. IMO there is not one all encompassing ideology, nor 'solution'. IMO the end to the killings based upon the various Islamist ideologies will evolve over time, just as it did within the Christian world.  

 

Our security forces have stated that Islamist terrorism in the West will likely continue for decades. There is no 'solution' other than vigilance to reduce the risk.  Plus of course heeding the guidance of our security forces on issues such as cease contributing to tensions by expressing hatred and division.

 

BTW you have a very short memory regards far right motivated killings in the UK. As with other extremist ideologists there will be more murders.

[Orton Rd]

Islamic violence will not continue for decades it will continue for as long as Islam exists and as long as it has not conquered the civilized world, they have been at it so far on and off for 1400 years.

[ivor bigun]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

As usual you have made a number of false assertion, 'liked' by the usual fellow travellers. I have never sought to deflect or minimise the evil of Islamist terrorism. I have pushed back on numerous occasions when members make sweeping generalisations regards all Muslims / practitioners of the Islamic faith, Off topic, but I will mention my recent one month in India. My experience was the Muslims I came in contact with were a damn sight better people than all other groups, as is my experience with Thai Muslims.

 

Many Islamist terror groups have grown due to a number of reasons e.g. endemic corruption, dictatorships the evil of Salafi clerics and so on. Thankfully we are currently we are seeing the slowing tempo of Islamist terrorism in Western countries after the collapse of the ISIS Caliphate. As you well know the greatest number of deaths by terrorism are within Islamic majority countries, mainly based upon the Shiite - Sunni divide.  Fighting for power between tribes and various terror tribal based terror groups and so on. IMO there is not one all encompassing ideology, nor 'solution'. IMO the end to the killings based upon the various Islamist ideologies will evolve over time, just as it did within the Christian world.  

 

Our security forces have stated that Islamist terrorism in the West will likely continue for decades. There is no 'solution' other than vigilance to reduce the risk.  Plus of course heeding the guidance of our security forces on issues such as cease contributing to tensions by expressing hatred and division.

 

BTW you have a very short memory regards far right motivated killings in the UK. As with other extremist ideologists there will be more murders.

Well i have spent years and years working and living in the vicinity of Muslims ,and i would take any other faith over them ,i have also spent some time in Dhaka ,which is populated by mainly Muslims ,it was a disgusting place and i am not a "fellow traveller" but  seen it first hand . 

I am sure there are good Muslims ,but they are few and far between ,they follow their Phrophet and his "ways"

[simple1]

29 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Islamic violence will not continue for decades it will continue for as long as Islam exists and as long as it has not conquered the civilized world, they have been at it so far on and off for 1400 years.

Choose your scenario - LOL

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_time#Christianity

[simple1]

30 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

Well i have spent years and years working and living in the vicinity of Muslims ,and i would take any other faith over them ,i have also spent some time in Dhaka ,which is populated by mainly Muslims ,it was a disgusting place and i am not a "fellow traveller" but  seen it first hand . 

I am sure there are good Muslims ,but they are few and far between ,they follow their Phrophet and his "ways"

We have had very different experiences with Muslim communities

[transam]

17 minutes ago, simple1 said:

We have had very different experiences with Muslim communities

Try the ISIS lot for a night out on the tiles.....Get back to us...????

[Orton Rd]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

Choose your scenario - LOL

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_time#Christianity

Wikipedia again, heavily edited by you know who, pathetic.

[Orton Rd]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

We have had very different experiences with Muslim communities

I think that has been very obvious for an obvious reason ???? Does not matter how many good experiences you can have with Muslims, their belief system is still a barbaric middle aged pile of violent, divisive nonsense

[torturedsole]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Try the ISIS lot for a night out on the tiles.....Get back to us...????

As much as I disagree with simple1 I'd hate to see him starring in one of their videos.

[ivor bigun]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

We have had very different experiences with Muslim communities

well i was in a business that had to mix with a certain sort of people ,at one time i worked with a guy that had done time for manslaughter and two that had been done for other violent offences ,they were all "nice" guys to me ,as i was not a threat to them  in any way , but i can assure you i would not like to have been on the wrong side of them , same if you are not of the faith. 

[Kwasaki]

On 11/30/2019 at 5:01 AM, rooster59 said:

"What's remarkable about the images we've seen is the breath-taking heroism of members of the public who literally ran towards danger not knowing what confronted them," Khan told reporters.

The members of the public were probably Muslims. 

[simple1]

12 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Wikipedia again, heavily edited by you know who, pathetic.

Nope, no idea what you're inferring. Let us know what is factually incorrect content in the link. 

[Orton Rd]

On 12/2/2019 at 2:23 PM, simple1 said:

This is ridiculous = stop spinning! Really got to be the last post on this matter.

Obviously not, as you are obsessively dedicated to supporting Islam in all it's gory glory and have never once admitted that the cause of Islamic violence lies in the made up words of the prophet and the example he set his followers by the life he led of violence, lies, and to say the least, strange sexual conduct. You know that quote in the haddith where he gives the game away- 'I was made victorious by terror', you can't blame the jihadists in a way as the blame really lies with the prophet.

[metisdead]

A post containing denigrating comments on moderation has been removed as well as the replies. 

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Obviously not, as you are obsessively dedicated to supporting Islam in all it's gory glory and have never once admitted that the cause of Islamic violence lies in the made up words of the prophet and the example he set his followers by the life he led of violence, lies, and to say the least, strange sexual conduct. You know that quote in the haddith where he gives the game away- 'I was made victorious by terror', you can't blame the jihadists in a way as the blame really lies with the prophet.

Sure I admire Spirituality within Islam, on the other side of the coin I have no affinity to the dogma of any of the Abrahamic religions. (yet again incorrect assumptions by you). As I have posted on a number of occasions, of all that I have read regards Spirituality, Vedanta is the most appealing to me

 

I'm well aware of the 'Sword' verses and abrogation. A matter of interpretation and debated vigorously within Islam. You and others have obviously sided with the Jihadist / Salafi interpretation, others disagree, including Islamic Scholars. 

[Orton Rd]

95% of Muslims interpret the scriptures the same way as the so called extremists, but most just do not act on them. Pointing out the calls for jihad and martyrdom in Islamic scripture does not mean anyone is siding with this dangerous ideology. Mohammad was obsessed with martyrdom which is why they want to be killed in jihad, hence the fake suicide vest assuring he would be shot dead. The prophet never did it himself of course, which is most regrettable!

[JonnyF]

11 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

The members of the public were probably Muslims. 

As no doubt has been reported on this thread already (I haven't read it all) at least some of them were ex-cons. This happened at a conference for rehabilitating serious offenders after release from prison. One of the members of the public that tackled him was James Ford who was at the conference having been released after killing a 15 year old girl in 2004. 

 

Probably not the best choice of location for Usman Khan to try and murder loads of people with only a knife, when you're in the company of murderers or other violent offenders who have spent long spells in the prison system and don't take kindly to someone like Khan threatening them.

[Opl]

On 12/3/2019 at 6:06 AM, simple1 said:

As usual you have made a number of false assertion, 'liked' by the usual fellow travellers. I have never sought to deflect or minimise the evil of Islamist terrorism. I have pushed back on numerous occasions when members make sweeping generalisations regards all Muslims / practitioners of the Islamic faith, Off topic, but I will mention my recent one month in India. My experience was the Muslims I came in contact with were a damn sight better people than all other groups, as is my experience with Thai Muslims.

 

Many Islamist terror groups have grown due to a number of reasons e.g. endemic corruption, dictatorships the evil of Salafi clerics and so on. Thankfully we are currently we are seeing the slowing tempo of Islamist terrorism in Western countries after the collapse of the ISIS Caliphate. As you well know the greatest number of deaths by terrorism are within Islamic majority countries, mainly based upon the Shiite - Sunni divide.  Fighting for power between tribes and various terror tribal based terror groups and so on. IMO there is not one all encompassing ideology, nor 'solution'. IMO the end to the killings based upon the various Islamist ideologies will evolve over time, just as it did within the Christian world.  

 

Our security forces have stated that Islamist terrorism in the West will likely continue for decades. There is no 'solution' other than vigilance to reduce the risk.  Plus of course heeding the guidance of our security forces on issues such as cease contributing to tensions by expressing hatred and division.

 

BTW you have a very short memory regards far right motivated killings in the UK. As with other extremist ideologists there will be more murders.

I'm afraid you are optimistic or you undermine the threat.

Millenials of tribal mentalities combined to uneducation, poverty due to overpopulation, submissive social system a.s.o produce générations of frustrated losers who'll seak to take revenge - pause, rewind, replay    

[ivor bigun]

my daughter had a friend many years ago when she was in her early 20s i remember that she had a Muslim boyfriend and got pregnant by him ,he said he could not marry her unless she became a Muslim and brought their child up as a muslim ,why? i could not understand why you have to convert ,she refused ,told him he should become a Catholic , they broke up ,a few years later she married a nice guy ,  I know in The Jewish faith ,you can take your mothers religion ,n matter what,and of course Christians can marry anyone ,it seems to me its a way they get more and more to their faith ,which as i have said before is very controling .

[katana]

On 11/29/2019 at 11:47 PM, baboon said:

Wearing a fake suicide vest is terrorism?

Now don't get me wrong - this homicidal maniac got what was coming to him - but the term 'terrorist' with all the implications that go with the term are rather too easily bandied about nowadays for my liking.

He wore the fake suicide vest to ensure he was killed by the police during the attack.
Their religion teaches them that to die during jihad is quite simply the best thing in the world.
eg
Sahih al-Bukhari 2785
A man came to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He [muhhamad] replied, "I do not find such a deed."

 

Sahih al-Bukhari 2796
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "A single endeavor (of fighting) in Allah's Cause in the afternoon or in the forenoon is better than all the world and whatever is in it.

 

Sahih al-Bukhari 2797
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "... By Him in Whose Hands my life is! I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred.

 

And from the Koran 33:21, Muhammad is the pattern of conduct for Muslims to follow:
“Indeed in the messenger of Allah you have an excellent pattern (of conduct) for him who hopes in Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much.

etc

[TopDeadSenter]

1 hour ago, katana said:

He wore the fake suicide vest to ensure he was killed by the police during the attack.
Their religion teaches them that to die during jihad is quite simply the best thing in the world.
eg
Sahih al-Bukhari 2785
A man came to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He [muhhamad] replied, "I do not find such a deed."

 

Sahih al-Bukhari 2796
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "A single endeavor (of fighting) in Allah's Cause in the afternoon or in the forenoon is better than all the world and whatever is in it.

 

Sahih al-Bukhari 2797
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "... By Him in Whose Hands my life is! I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred.

 

And from the Koran 33:21, Muhammad is the pattern of conduct for Muslims to follow:
“Indeed in the messenger of Allah you have an excellent pattern (of conduct) for him who hopes in Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much.

etc

We all know it. If a right wing bikers gang had such rules and ideas they would be banned in seconds. Why the double standards? Several possibilities, political parties terrified of losing votes, general fear of an uprising by these people, and politicians having all gone to elite universities where they learned it is evil to be a white Brit and believe in Christian values. The consequences as we see are tragic.

 Just look at the photos of London bridge. Huge black steel and concrete bollards have been built to stop these people driving trucks up the pedestrian lane. Huge ugly concrete dividing wall has been built to stop these people driving trucks from the road onto the pavement. Armed police are on standby just waiting for a call that one of these people has gone on a rampage again.

 We Have Had Enough!