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I so fed up with stupid dangerous drivers

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19 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Fact: Thailand has one of the highest annual number of road deaths (per 100,000) in the world.

 

Fact: The Thai driving test is cursary at best.

 

Fact: RTP pay minimal attention to enforcing the traffic laws.

 

Fact: Thai roads are among the most dangerous in the world mainly due to the extreme lack of driving skills of it's drivers.

 

These facts aren't just "my opinion". When I look in the mirror, I see someone who has driven for most of his life in a country where it takes months of training, an hour long driving test, on public roads to obtain a driving licence, the police rigourously enforce traffic laws and the average driver doesn't suffer from "face".

 

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2 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

Can i ask you your age and where do you actualy live?

 

Because usualy the ones whiches feel the most secure here in Thailand

are aged and living in a rural area where there is only few vehicles on the roads

plus they rarely drive (Go from the house to Tesco 1 time\week)

and for most of them is the wife\gf, usualy much much younger

who is at the wheel.

 

You make a valid point, but my age is 45 and I live in central Bangkok and I much prefer doing the riding or driving myself (my Wife drives when we're coming back from a restaurant etc and I had a couple of beers). 

 

My point is not that Thailands roads aren't dangerous - they most certainly are and more so than our roads in the West. My point is that the Damning Statistics are not truly representative of the risks I face when riding and driving  because when out in the car 75% of that damning statistic is removed as it represents motorcycles. When riding a motorcycle I'm not a hoon and thus while still at elevated risk because of the lower standards in Thailand the risks I personally face are not as high as the drunk, speeding around at night jumping lights... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by richard_smith237
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1 hour ago, Onrai said:

how statistics are being reported. World Health Organization is number one source cited and how each country reports their deaths to Who is questionable. 

If you do a quick search, you'll find a paper by WHO explaining how they compile the stats.

If you look at the annual reports, you'll see that Thailand doesn't actually ever supply a great number of stats.

You can also find out the half dozen sources in Thailand that supply stats.

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3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:
said:

Can i ask you your age and where do you actualy live?

 

Because usualy the ones whiches feel the most secure here in Thailand

are aged and living in a rural area where there is only few vehicles on the roads

plus they rarely drive (Go from the house to Tesco 1 time\week)

and for most of them is the wife\gf, usualy much much younger

who is at the wheel.

I am 65 and drive motorcycles daily. Don’t have a car. I stay mainly in the north and Isaan. That said -I have ridden extensively in Phuket, Surin, Buriram, Ayutthaya, Sukhothai, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Trat, Koh Khud,  Hua Hin, Lopburi, Pai, Udon Thani, Kohn Kaen to name a few. I have a ridden a Royal Enfield 2000km thru Rajasthan. I have explored an equally large portion of Vietnam on a motorbike. 

The only major city I haven’t ridden in is Bangkok. 

What about you? How many miles have you logged? Have you ridden  in India or Sri Lanka or Vietnam. How often do you ride in Thailand? 

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5 hours ago, Onrai said:

I have weighed in on this subject quite a few times but it does appear one topic no one agrees on.

Fact 1. Thailand more accurately has one of the highest number of motorbike deaths. More motorcycles more road deaths. Nothing mysterious about this. The motorbike is inherently more dangerous to ride. I sincerely question who and how statistics are being reported. World Health Organization is number one source cited and how each country reports their deaths to Who is questionable. 

Maybe Thai reporting is more honest and accurate than say Vietnam. No one will ever convince me that the roads are safer in Vietnam than Thailand. 

Fact 2. I have met a number of Americans that have failed the Thai drivers test multiple times. If it is so cursory why can’t we pass it?

It has a written and driving component similar to our test in the USA. I wouldn’t categorize it as cursory. 

3. Thais pay minimal attention to driving laws. Maybe so. On the other hand- they do stop at traffic lights, they general use their turn signal, they do use their lights at night. More and more people are wearing helmets. Yes they have a different driving style and it can be infuriating. For one thing you have to pay attention and be fully alert and a defensive driver. I would suggest that, at least in USA, we depend too much on the “law” to protect us and are less engaged with our driving. Thais can talk on the phone, ride 3 on a motorcycle, cut in and out of traffic. It seems insane but I have slowly adapted to their driving style. 

I would say my driving skills have improved since I have been in thailand since I have to be fully engaged at all times. 

My analogy is walking on sidewalks. All the side walks are smooth, few transitions, flat, unbroken, etc. in the USA. Here they are broken, there are steps, broken cement, little 2 inch transitions that you don’t see. My conclusion is I walk better and am more attentive because I know I am going to trip and break my neck if I am not fully engaged. 

I think the subset of the population that cause the most accidents in Thailand is the young testosterone driven hot dog that feels invincible. I look back at realize I was exactly the same- driving too fast, driving while drinking, not paying attention, etc. 

The last comment is on road conditions. Roads, in my opinion, are good to excellent in Thailand. Not a lot of pot holes, generally well lit with no lack of traffic signs. The roads in the San Francisco Bay Area are abysmal in comparison. Enough said.

 

 

Wrong. The roads in the San Francisco Bay Area are much better and the drivers more polite.

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58 minutes ago, Shouldhaveknownbetter said:

Wrong. The roads in the San Francisco Bay Area are much better and the drivers more polite

Well everyone has their own opinion. I’ve only lived in San Francisco and the Bay Area 65 years so obviously I couldn’t possibly have an informed opinion.

Anyone running for re-election, anyone who has ever gone to a town council meeting, knows that road maintenance is a top priority that generally fails to get any traction. 280, 101, 680 are well maintained but not any better than the major highways here. 

Probably worse maintained now that CA. Is struggling with major infrastructure problems due to all the forest fires and allocating assets elsewhere. 

That people are more polite clearly shows we are talking about a different San Francisco CA. Road rage is almost at epidemic levels. Hard to drive anywhere without someone flipping you off for a perceived slight. Don’t believe me- I’d be happy to send you scores of articles on people ramming each other, chasing each other for 10’s of miles because someone got someone <deleted> off. It is a phenomenon that I have never seen in any other country. I ‘d love to have a discussion on what causes road rage in America. What amazes me about Thailand is that most confrontational situations never reach a boiling point. People take it in stride and rarely get angry. People in and around San Francisco have a sense of entitlement that escalates at the smallest provocation. Road rage is just as much a uniquely American phenomenon as mass shootings of innocent civilians.  Neither exist t anywhere near the level they do in America. My suggestion is read the news, go to city council meetings about road conditions. Try cutting someone off, or trail gate, or forget to make a lane change without your turn signal and see what happens. 

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Was on the motorbike a few days ago and nearly got flattened by a car coming fast out of a side road, reason is the fella was on his phone and not looking ahead and had to break quickly. Now I'm not one of these pussies who won't say boo to a Thai bloke, so I stopped my bike looked at him and made a motion with my hand that he was on his phone, he looked at me steely faced and nodded. Job done and I drove off, hopefully it would have made him think twice before doing it again,

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7 hours ago, Onrai said:

I would say my driving skills have improved since I have been in thailand since I have to be fully engaged at all times.

I agree. During one of my twice yearly sojourns back in the UK recently a family member made an interesting observation on my driving. She said 'you never seem to brake'. I thought about this and came to the conclusion that she had a point.  Although I don't drive slowly after 9 years in Thailand I factor in a lot more in any given situation. So, while driving in the UK, I no longer get caught out by events that might require firm braking. By the time anything happens I've already adjusted my speed. I guess it's just that I no longer expect other road users to behave consistently. Also driving in Thailand has impressed upon me never to encroach into the 'two second' rule distance when following another vehicle, something that I might have been guilty of on occasions in the past.          

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On 12/2/2019 at 1:20 PM, cranki said:

Sounds like you should walk instead....that happens ever millisecond here.....sheesh.

Heaven forbid anyone should walk in Thailand (especially the Thais). That's what motorcycles were invented for. Leg use is so out of date.

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8 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

If you do a quick search, you'll find a paper by WHO explaining how they compile the stats.

If you look at the annual reports, you'll see that Thailand doesn't actually ever supply a great number of stats.

You can also find out the half dozen sources in Thailand that supply stats.

I am on The Who website and am wondering which data collection publications and reporting protocols you are referring to:

resources


Fatal injury surveillance in mortuaries and hospitals: a manual for practitioners (2012)

 

Data systems: a road safety manual for decision-makers and practitioners (2010)

 

Manual for estimating the economic costs of injuries due to interpersonal and self-directed violence (2008)

Guidelines for conducting community surveys on injuries and violence (2004)

 

Guidance for surveillance of injuries due to landmines and unexploded ordnance (2000)

  • English [pdf 130kb]
  • French [pdf 231kb]
  • Spanish [pdf 230kb] 
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    8 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

    If you do a quick search, you'll find a paper by WHO explaining how they compile the stats.

    If you look at the annual reports, you'll see that Thailand doesn't actually ever supply a great number of stats.

    You can also find out the half dozen sources in Thailand that supply stats.

    Which one are you referring to
     

 

Data collection

Data collection is defined as the ongoing systematic collection, analysis, and interpretation of health data necessary for designing, implementing, and evaluating public health prevention programs. To develop effective prevention strategies, countries need to improve their information. In particular, countries need to know about the numbers and types of injuries that occur and about the circumstances in which those injuries occur. Such information will indicate how serious the injury problem is, and where prevention measures are most urgently needed.

Related publications

More about data collection

  • Classification systems
    Injury surveillance systems and surveys require a standard system for classifying injuries and violence. 
 

i

 

 

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8 hours ago, Onrai said:

I am on The Who website and am wondering which data collection publications and reporting protocols you are referring to:

resources


Fatal injury surveillance in mortuaries and hospitals: a manual for practitioners (2012)

 

Data systems: a road safety manual for decision-makers and practitioners (2010)

 

Manual for estimating the economic costs of injuries due to interpersonal and self-directed violence (2008)

Guidelines for conducting community surveys on injuries and violence (2004)

 

Guidance for surveillance of injuries due to landmines and unexploded ordnance (2000)

 

Data collection

Data collection is defined as the ongoing systematic collection, analysis, and interpretation of health data necessary for designing, implementing, and evaluating public health prevention programs. To develop effective prevention strategies, countries need to improve their information. In particular, countries need to know about the numbers and types of injuries that occur and about the circumstances in which those injuries occur. Such information will indicate how serious the injury problem is, and where prevention measures are most urgently needed.

Related publications

More about data collection

  • Classification systems
    Injury surveillance systems and surveys require a standard system for classifying injuries and violence. 
 

i

 

 

Well, you've done the search, now do the research. I wold bear in mind that we are talking about not just stats in general but unspecific to how gountires collect, collate and analyse.

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2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Well, you've done the search, now do the research. I wold bear in mind that we are talking about not just stats in general but unspecific to how gountires collect, collate and analyse.

 

2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Well, you've done the search, now do the research. I wold bear in mind that we are talking about not just stats in general but unspecific to how gountires collect, collate and analyse.

Well I can tell you one thing- Who only recognizes 34 countries that collect data according to their data collection protocol. Want to guess if Thailand is included in that list?

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13 hours ago, sniggie said:

I agree. During one of my twice yearly sojourns back in the UK recently a family member made an interesting observation on my driving. She said 'you never seem to brake'. I thought about this and came to the conclusion that she had a point.  Although I don't drive slowly after 9 years in Thailand I factor in a lot more in any given situation. So, while driving in the UK, I no longer get caught out by events that might require firm braking. By the time anything happens I've already adjusted my speed. I guess it's just that I no longer expect other road users to behave consistently. Also driving in Thailand has impressed upon me never to encroach into the 'two second' rule distance when following another vehicle, something that I might have been guilty of on occasions in the past.          

I can always tell who drove our car last, I just need to look at the dust on the front wheels......

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Makes me wonder what driving in western countries like... I drove in China and Dubai before moved to Thailand, and suddenly I felt like heaven, I saw drivers are very communicative and give gesture for give way and appologies... Traffic is resonablely fast, not snail-like in China/Vietnam nor crazy roads like Amman/Dubai. Even now live in Bangkok, each time driving makes me smile( since I know many sois to bypass traffic jam ). If western is much superior... I can't imagine.

 

You know in China we banned almost every motorcycle, and whole country adapted full-electric-mopeds. Say license, those silent killers don't even require a plate. Since I driving in that environment from middle school, never distracted >0.25s already becomes a habit. Thai roads seems relatively safe and relax to me... Funny in China we have almost same accidents statistic like US

 

That said something I hate about Thai driving:

1. occasional jerks in their red-plated executive car. Never give way to other

2. don't understand how to drive in roundabout

3. motorcycle deathsquads. This goes without saying

Each could be very dangerous

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