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More foreign English teachers set to be hired as Thais aim for better than basic English


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I am seriously shocked at the wages paid to Thai teachers that people are throwing about. 15,000 baht a month? Jeezus. I can see where it would be hard to make the case for paying qualified EFL teachers an 'international' wage.  

 

 here in Japan, fresh off the boat ESL teachers with nothing other than a university degree generally start at 250,000 yen a month, about 75,000 baht.  Teachers on the JET Program (government sponsored program to put native speakers in public schools) get 90,000 baht, plus often receive housing allowances or free accommodation. When you get up to the university level, even part time adjunct lecturers can build a schedule that earns 150-200,000 baht a month with a little hard work. Tenured professors? Fugeddaboutit.

 

Now of course the cost of living is dramatically different, but still the question remains of how to lure people from well paying gigs to Thailand. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't mind taking a bit of a hit in the wallet if they could work in Thailand but not that much. A 50-70% salary cut? Good luck finding anyone.

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11 hours ago, brimacthai said:

The degree was only to meet the governments requirement for a work permit. Even online teaching companies now require a degree and they don't even know why. There's no work permit needed to teach online but yet the companies (most anyways) require a degree and many don't require an English language teaching certificate.

The overwhelming majority of online English Language Schools are based in China. The Chinese education authorities require that their teachers have a degree and a TEFL/TESOL qualification.

 

At present the forums and Facebook pages are full of offers for online TEFL/TESOL courses, at bargain basement prices. Many are foolishly bragging that they purchased such courses for small change, and completed them in a couple of evenings. I say foolishly, because such boasting will inevitably lead to the requirements being tightened up, probably to require a 120 hour classroom course, with real assessed teaching practices. That will be no bad thing.

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2 hours ago, Bezdomny said:

To be NES and have BA in irrelevant field with "2 Mondays, one Tuesday" TEFL course  doesn't make you English language teacher. Only teachers who actually studied language and speak at least 2 languages should teach language no matter where they are from. Practice in Thailand and top 10 EF EPI proves this.

 

https://www.thailand-business-news.com/news/76941-thailands-english-proficiency-falls-to-very-low.html

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EF_English_Proficiency_Index

 

 

What's more, persons with such qualifications would be able to demonstrate the use of "the article" (definite or indefinite) in the sentences they write!

????

I am open to accusations of being a "grammar NAZI" I know, but if you are going to question or belittle people's ability to teach a language (even a mere TEFL mong such as myself) then perhaps you should be able to write it (the language) correctly?

 

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On 12/3/2019 at 1:43 PM, champers said:

BP reporting that the Phillipines Embassy has been consulted with a view to bringing in more Filipino English speakers as teachers.

That's the easier option, as many have teaching qualifications that enables them to get the full teaching licence. It is the reason there are not many unqualified western teachers in schools under OBEC these days. 

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4 hours ago, SaamBaht said:

This is fantastic! I guess this means they are going to start paying those underpaid native English speakers a living wage. Nice. 

according to my gik, the government raised the wage allowance a few years back for native speakers

 

there was so much outrage from the thai teachers that the allowance was put back down again

 

i'll see if i can find some proof in this

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Filipinos will be hired in bigger numbers Reason why? I know a Pvt school where i live pays the Filipino teachers 9,000 Baht per Month Compared to normal Thai Teachers who earn  around 18,000 Baht per month and Falang teachers who cost then 35,000-40,000 per month. So who do you think the directors will hire when all this extra money becomes available? Better idea paying 9,000 per month and  slipping the rest in your pocket Ha ha. Amazing after all these years Thailand has found out that it has a problem with students learning English They dont learn nothing and its starting to show up big time. LIke one guy said on here he had 2 Thai teachers Masters in English living across the road from him who are supposed to be teaching English and cant string 2 English sentences together  There is your problem

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What possible improvement is an 18 Year old M6 student going to make to their English ability ?

Absolutely none is the answer to that question.

If English ( or any other Language ) is not taught to a child when they very young, there is little or no chance of learning the language.

Also the children have to be in contact with, and speak with English speaking people on a daily basis to maintain a high proficiency. 

Sadly, here in Thailand there is a huge dis-connect from being taught English in School, and then going Home to hear nothing but Thai being spoken by the Students peers

2 Hours a week is not going to cut it.

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7 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

 

I would liken it to learning Isaan langauge when you think you're learning Thai.

 

Isaan and Standard Thai aren't really dialects.

 

Dialects are two languages which are mutually intelligible to each other without having to learn that language.

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Just in...'nuff said.

 

Thai students are consistently performing below the international average in core subjects, according to the results of the international 2018 PISA examinations.

 

Published by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) on Tuesday, the results show Thai students underperforming in reading, mathematics and science compared to most countries participating in the evaluation.

 

The PISA examinations, which take place every three years, evaluate education systems worldwide by measuring basic skills and knowledge of 15-year-old pupils, and their readiness for the challenges of adult life.

 

Approximately 600,000 pupils from 79 countries, including 37 OECD nations, completed the latest test, which focused primarily on their reading ability.

 

According to the survey, Thailand ranked 56th for maths, 66th for reading, and 52nd for sciences.

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4 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Funny to hear everybody say “If they paid more...”. “Pay peanuts get monkeys...” and the like.

 

I’d be willing to wager that 99% of male teachers here are not here for altruistic reasons and couldn’t really care less about teaching.

 

I do agree with you.

 

I think most native English teachers aren't really that keen to teach and their teaching skills are bad. Most just want to stay in Thailand on a long-term basis.

 

There are a few good native English speakers who can teach well but those are the exceptions rather than the rule.

 

It's a matter of who can teach clearly to second language learners rather than whether they are native speakers or not.

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1 hour ago, ubon farang said:

I know a Pvt school where i live pays the Filipino teachers 9,000 Baht per Month Compared to normal Thai Teachers who earn  around 18,000 Baht per month and Falang teachers who cost then 35,000-40,000 per month.

 

The Filipino teachers I know personally in Bangkok earn around 20 to 24k baht. And some of them do not have any degrees. I don't think any Filipino would accept a salary as low as 9000. 

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1 hour ago, EricTh said:

 

I do agree with you.

 

I think most native English teachers aren't really that keen to teach and their teaching skills are bad. Most just want to stay in Thailand on a long-term basis.

 

There are a few good native English speakers who can teach well but those are the exceptions rather than the rule.

 

It's a matter of who can teach clearly to second language learners rather than whether they are native speakers or not.

It’s not just that they can’t teach.  Even those that can (and are good at it) know that Thailand offers a “package” that just can’t be beaten by other countries.  Chiang Mai rides pretty high in that regard and the low(er) salaries seem to bear that out.

 

The people running the show here in Thailand aren’t stupid.  People can rant and rave all they want about moving to (insert Asian country here) and how the salaries are so much better...but the truth is...if it was so much better, they (the teachers) wouldn’t have chosen Thailand in the first place.

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On 12/3/2019 at 1:57 PM, Thian said:

They even learn to not speak the last letter which is very annoying.

 

Look at how this student has to pronounce liver , without the r....

 

6pm.jpg

Brains ?   Other words I see are all singular.   Guess language is confusing as we commonly say, "The child has no brains".

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10 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I'm not really interested in what is or is not pervasive. What I'm interested in is kids being taught correctly. If American English was the official standard or indeed French or Italian for that matter, I'd be happy with that too (note: too not to).

But you should be so interested, as in this case pervasive means the de facto standard. American English looks to become even more pervasive, too, (note: ", too," not "too") (note: "too,", not "too") and British English, with its laughably antiquated spelling, even less relevant. American English is most desirable in absence of an official standard, whatever that means. Correctly taught, yes indeed.

 

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Thai kids are up against it from what I see, unless they have a good teacher and classmates that actually want to learn. They are given English language text books that contain a lot of mistakes and are often taught by non native English speakers

Nonnative (note: or "non-native," not "non native") such as most Brit teachers whom (note: not "that) I've met except for one Oxford graduate. God knows what he was doing in Thailand except that his wealth did support a harem. He, now, highly intelligent, could speak RP. SHOCK. It's awfully difficult, you see, to establish the correlation between, say, Brummie or Geordie and any form of written English. Fortunately, some students are lucky enough to be taught by educated Americans, Filipinos, Indians, or continental Europeans--all of whom speak and write far better English that of the Brit hod carriers who pass for teachers here.

 

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What they don't need is to also be taught American English where a boot is a trunk and a bonnet a hood.

Oh, that's exactly what they need. Trunk is a trunk, not a "byeut."

 

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That may sound trivial but try putting yourself in the shoes of someone who's native langauge is tonal and has a completely different character set. Learning a different language is difficult enough for them without being taught incorrect words.

Agreed! But a principle applicable even for those whose langauge is not tonal.

 

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I would liken it to learning Isaan langauge when you think you're learning Thai.

Me, too, but better yet: like learning the Brummie or Geordie langauge when you think you're learning English. Kids start coming out with gibberish like "Teachor, when gan wuh gan yeut tuh laik?" you usually hear in Thailand. Not my kid, thank you!

 

8 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Americans should be forced to teach british english, if they can't they aren't qualified.

On the contrary, Brits should be forced to teach American English; if they can't then they're not qualified. And if they do teach British English, they should be forced to do it using RP. Unfortunately, most find RP as difficult as Thai and scorn it as "posh" (Brit class warfare, you know), so that fact greatly reduces the pool of qualified candidates as well.  

Of course, if the students must suffer a textbook written in British English, then any American teacher can deal with all the uniquely Brit words, spelling, idioms, slang, usage, colonial attitudes, and other obstacles. At least the they will still learn their lessons, as they must, taught in an understandable, if not especially melodious, General American accent. ????  

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I am pretty sure 90% of school prefer America over any other foreign country.  Their kids like American music, movies, etc....... but there are a lot of Americans who come to Thailand and don't represent America very well.  I spent enough time in America to know the smart teachers are not here, and maybe a lot of losers instead.  

 

I always wonder who spellchecks the signs all over the place, most of them are really terrible.  I do wonder if Thais will be forced to learn more Chinese in the next 50-years, and that will mean less English.   

 

 

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51 minutes ago, BigStar said:

 

But you should be so interested, as in this case pervasive means the de facto standard. American English looks to become even more pervasive, too, (note: ", too," not "too") (note: "too,", not "too") and British English, with its laughably antiquated spelling, even less relevant. American English is most desirable in absence of an official standard, whatever that means. Correctly taught, yes indeed.

 

Nonnative (note: or "non-native," not "non native") such as most Brit teachers whom (note: not "that) I've met except for one Oxford graduate. God knows what he was doing in Thailand except that his wealth did support a harem. He, now, highly intelligent, could speak RP. SHOCK. It's awfully difficult, you see, to establish the correlation between, say, Brummie or Geordie and any form of written English. Fortunately, some students are lucky enough to be taught by educated Americans, Filipinos, Indians, or continental Europeans--all of whom speak and write far better English that of the Brit hod carriers who pass for teachers here.

 

Oh, that's exactly what they need. Trunk is a trunk, not a "byeut."

 

Agreed! But a principle applicable even for those whose langauge is not tonal.

 

Me, too, but better yet: like learning the Brummie or Geordie langauge when you think you're learning English. Kids start coming out with gibberish like "Teachor, when gan wuh gan yeut tuh laik?" you usually hear in Thailand. Not my kid, thank you!

 

On the contrary, Brits should be forced to teach American English; if they can't then they're not qualified. And if they do teach British English, they should be forced to do it using RP. Unfortunately, most find RP as difficult as Thai and scorn it as "posh" (Brit class warfare, you know), so that fact greatly reduces the pool of qualified candidates as well.  

Of course, if the students must suffer a textbook written in British English, then any American teacher can deal with all the uniquely Brit words, spelling, idioms, slang, usage, colonial attitudes, and other obstacles. At least the they will still learn their lessons, as they must, taught in an understandable, if not especially melodious, General American accent. ????  

A well balanced post; a chip on both shoulders!

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I came back tonight to add this:

 

The hands down preference for English in East Asia in North American. I won't bore you with why. For all intents and purposes the only schools teaching British English are British curriculum schools. You're more likely to hear a student with a Filipino twang than a British accent. Then truly God forbid if it's not southern England. Because it sounds like the speaker has a head of cabbage in his her mouth.

 

American slang and Hollywood reaches globally. It's far more powerful than people think. UK has a few good schools but it's the American university experience still in demand.

 

Experienced teachers are very flexible with this. I've never known it to be a serious issue. Both spellings and all accents acceptable but I think it ridiculous to school kids in British pronunciation personally. It's not what they hear on YT or FB or Hollywood.

 

Out of 2500 students I've taught only three had British accents. Good schools too.

 

 

Thailand will bring in Filipinos. It's all they can afford.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

American slang and Hollywood reaches globally. It's far more powerful than people think. UK has a few good schools but it's the American university experience still in demand.

And the same forces are working at a localized level, too. The fact is that non-native speakers of English talk to each other all the time without bothering with what some authority in the British Council thinks. That is how living and vital languages grow. They adapt to the users' needs. So when 1.5 billion Indian users of English do so with the expectation that they can get what they want out of it, not what 60 million British on some tiny island far, far away want, then they'll make their own rules. So will Filipinos, Nigerians, and Pakistanis. And it's a lot more likely that Thais will need to be able to work in English that has adapted to those nations than in English as spoken in the UK or even the US. 

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8 minutes ago, zydeco said:

And the same forces are working at a localized level, too. The fact is that non-native speakers of English talk to each other all the time without bothering with what some authority in the British Council thinks. That is how living and vital languages grow. They adapt to the users' needs. So when 1.5 billion Indian users of English do so with the expectation that they can get what they want out of it, not what 60 million British on some tiny island far, far away want, then they'll make their own rules. So will Filipinos, Nigerians, and Pakistanis. And it's a lot more likely that Thais will need to be able to work in English that has adapted to those nations than in English as spoken in the UK or even the US. 

I very much agree. This is precisely why English has become the lingua franca of the world (irony). It functions as a living and very dynamic language. There are grammar rules to be certain but no high courts that debate over what can or cannot be introduced into the language such as French. Partly why French is only spoken by it's former colonies coupled with decades of economic stagnation.

 

But the British Council is truly a laff.

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In case any Teflers are interested there will be a big punch up at Sanam Luang this coming Saturday evening the 7th December at 8.00 pm.

 

This will be to decide the supremacy of either British or American English. Combatants are requested to assemble at the north end if pro Brit or south end pro American.

 

Aussies, Africans and other wannabes etc may assemble in front of the national museum to stick the boot in at any time either in their own interest or allies of the main combatants ( like the Stanley's of old )

 

A strict ban is placed on all weapons of any sort ( no sharpened marker pens included ). Strictly a fisticuffs and boot ' discussion '

Immediate disqualification and forfeit for any infringement.

 

Victors to be decided either by submission or last man standing principle.

 

Free cocktails and drinks to be provided by ministry of education at Thermaes subject to proof of personal injury. All others , 500 baht admission.

 

Registration forms for event available online from.

 

www.pedanticteflers.com

 

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Whatever..........

 

The statement that the Thai education authorities are actively looking to recruit more Philippinos to teach English says it all.

 

They are not really interested in improving the standard of English taught in Thai schools. What they want is cheap teaching and what they will get is poor teaching by non native speakers who rarely teach the actual International Language. They don't really care about quality, they simply care about the cost.

 

Usual thing in Thailand - look like you are dealing with a problem by talking about it. Then, if you do anything at all about it - do it on the cheap.

 

All they have to do is look at Singapore's success and examine what part being fluent in English has played in that. English is now the only language allowed in Singaporean schools.

 

Instead of asking themselves why they are losing quality teachers to China etc. and doing something to halt that, the Thai authorities seek to replace them with people who will work for the pitifull salaries on offer.

 

Peanuts and monkeys.

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Unless the Thai government wises up, Thai people are never going to learn how to speak conversational native English. There are no Asian countries that speak "native English" that they can pull resources from. Why does a native English speaker need a bachelor's degree to teach English in Thailand? I'm an American citizen born and raised in Chicago, worked in Information Technology for 40 years without a bachelor's degree and perfectly capable of teaching much more than conversational English. There is a great number of highly intelligent Westerners with technical backgrounds in Thailand on retirement visas that are perfectly capable of teaching native English and other subjects to Thai people.

 

I have some good sound advice for those of you in charge. Simply change the law for teaching requirements, let us teach on a retirement visa, pay us an attractive wage with a good benefits package and we will be happy to help you. I was recently in HCMC and the Vietnamese people are way ahead of you! HELP US HELP YOU!!!

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To be honest I find British writing style superior to American style and I would think that it would be far easier for children to be taught a British writing style and later adapt to any other writing style they want.

 

I shall not speak about the mangling of the language as it is spoken by the servants of the queen. They write well though and through my life I've tried to adopt my own personal writing to the inherent supercilious smarminess of written British English, stiff upper lip and all that, yet right to the point. I am quite sure that you understand what I am attempting to say, then?

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