Visa Options for longer term stay

[tabarin]

1x tourist visa + extension + border run + extension = 5 months. Repeat that and you should be fine + make the 10 months.
Will limit your possibilities if it comes to going in and out the country whenever you like though. 

So 500,000 baht for elite visa, marriage or less frequent and long stays.

P.S. Perhaps the double entry tourist visa will really come back, that would make it a bit easier again too.

Edited December 6, 2019 by tabarin

[DrJack54]

24 minutes ago, MisguidedPangolin said:

In case anyone is wondering, the trip to the immigration department went as follows.

 

I can stay until December 24, they cancelled the cancelled stamp put in my passport after it was initially stamped. If I wanted to pay the 1,900 baht they would have happily extended until late January. I'd already told friends I'd be heading to Australia for xmas and given my recent experience coming in I figured I wouldn't push it, so didn't extend.

 

All the staff I spoke to (3 of them) at immigration were surprisingly polite, friendly and eager to help as best they could. Very different from the last time I went in a few months ago, when two different staff members yelled at me (literally raising their voice angrily) because I was wearing shorts and others gave me nasty glares. The previous time I went in was over a year ago, plenty of people were wearing shorts, some in singlets, many in flip flops, no one seemed to care then. Actually, no one cared about the people in flip flops, singlets etc today either. From what I gather/guess, someone worked out that getting angry at people wearing shorts who are *on holiday* in a *tropical country* touted as a *fun and relaxing destination* wanting to extend their visa so they could *stay longer and spend more money in the country* was a stupid idea likely to be correlated with the *drop in tourism relative to expected figures actually being experienced at the time* and they sent a memo around.

 

None of them (and they went around asking the other staff) knew anything about a 180 day rule, official or otherwise and thought it was strange thing for me to be concerned about. They'd literally never heard a thing about it and seemed completely genuine. They assured me that as long as I left Thailand for more than 1 day at a time I could come back as many times as I wanted, with or without a visa in advance. They were happy to assure me there is no reason I couldn't spend about 360 days per year in Thailand on tourist visas/extensions (30/60/90 days at a time with one day in between each) as long as I'm not working or studying (in which case I can get a study or work visa). Needless to say, I am completely unconvinced that border staff would be as eager to be so nice. They did say that border staff may question me again, but if I wasn't working or studying and politely answered any questions, I would surely be let in. I'm completely unconvinced, but reporting what I was told.

 

Any helpful or potentially helpful comments (or polite criticism) would be greatly appreciated, but if anyone want to squabble further or accuse me of being a troll please do so in another thread.

Do añy of these helpful gentleman work at passport control?

Answer NO.

 

 

[MisguidedPangolin]

39 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Do añy of these helpful gentleman work at passport control?

Answer NO.

 

 

 

Is it fun pointing things out to people who have already said them?

[MisguidedPangolin]

43 minutes ago, tabarin said:

1x tourist visa + extension + border run + extension = 5 months. Repeat that and you should be fine + make the 10 months.
Will limit your possibilities if it comes to going in and out the country whenever you like though. 

So 500,000 baht for elite visa, marriage or less frequent and long stays.

P.S. Perhaps the double entry tourist visa will really come back, that would make it a bit easier again too.

 

This is pretty much what I'm thinking at this point, I'll give the multiple entry visa a go. If I leave early it'll work out to be more expensive but if they're happy to give it to me that's okay, and if they're still narky I'll cross that bridge when I come to it and probably just give up on hanging out in Thailand so much.

[NightSky]

As I have suspected since 2016, many crackdowns are about tax residency and meeting the CRS requirements;  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Reporting_Standard

 

 

[EdrigoSalvadore]

56 minutes ago, tabarin said:

P.S. Perhaps the double entry tourist visa will really come back, that would make it a bit easier again too.

My friend got triple entry tourist visa made in sweden two months ago. It was an overwhelming amount of paperwork though. It seemed as he was the first one ever to even try to get it.

[DrJack54]

8 minutes ago, MisguidedPangolin said:

 

This is pretty much what I'm thinking at this point, I'll give the multiple entry visa a go. If I leave early it'll work out to be more expensive but if they're happy to give it to me that's okay, and if they're still narky I'll cross that bridge when I come to it and probably just give up on hanging out in Thailand so much.

Your previous post re your visit to imm office advised you that you could stay in Los 365 days ...what a crock. Think post #30 or 32.

Why bother playing games. 

BTW do you know metv is only available in home country. Good luck with reentry.

 

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, EdrigoSalvadore said:

My friend got triple entry tourist visa made in sweden two months ago. It was an overwhelming amount of paperwork though. It seemed as he was the first one ever to even try to get it.

Ask your friend to show you the triple entry TV in passport. Think they ended perhaps 5 or 6 yrs back. He might mean a metv which is a multi valid for 6 months.

[Enzo555]

1 hour ago, MisguidedPangolin said:

In case anyone is wondering, the trip to the immigration department went as follows.

 

I can stay until December 24, they cancelled the cancelled stamp put in my passport after it was initially stamped. If I wanted to pay the 1,900 baht they would have happily extended until late January. I'd already told friends I'd be heading to Australia for xmas and given my recent experience coming in I figured I wouldn't push it, so didn't extend.

 

All the staff I spoke to (3 of them) at immigration were surprisingly polite, friendly and eager to help as best they could. Very different from the last time I went in a few months ago, when two different staff members yelled at me (literally raising their voice angrily) because I was wearing shorts and others gave me nasty glares. The previous time I went in was over a year ago, plenty of people were wearing shorts, some in singlets, many in flip flops, no one seemed to care then. Actually, no one cared about the people in flip flops, singlets etc today either. From what I gather/guess, someone worked out that getting angry at people wearing shorts who are *on holiday* in a *tropical country* touted as a *fun and relaxing destination* wanting to extend their visa so they could *stay longer and spend more money in the country* was a stupid idea likely to be correlated with the *drop in tourism relative to expected figures actually being experienced at the time* and they sent a memo around.

 

None of them (and they went around asking the other staff) knew anything about a 180 day rule, official or otherwise and thought it was strange thing for me to be concerned about. They'd literally never heard a thing about it and seemed completely genuine. They assured me that as long as I left Thailand for more than 1 day at a time I could come back as many times as I wanted, with or without a visa in advance. They were happy to assure me there is no reason I couldn't spend about 360 days per year in Thailand on tourist visas/extensions (30/60/90 days at a time with one day in between each) as long as I'm not working or studying (in which case I can get a study or work visa). Needless to say, I am completely unconvinced that border staff would be as eager to be so nice. They did say that border staff may question me again, but if I wasn't working or studying and politely answered any questions, I would surely be let in. I'm completely unconvinced, but reporting what I was told.

 

Any helpful or potentially helpful comments (or polite criticism) would be greatly appreciated, but if anyone want to squabble further or accuse me of being a troll please do so in another thread.

Hi, 

 

 I can share with you my experience if it can help you. In 2018, I've stayed about 10 months in Thailand with tourist visas and extensions; I had only 10 months stay on my passport; it was my first long stay in Thailand, before that I just used to come 2/3 weeks for holidays. After 10 months I went back to my country in Europe and stayed about 3 months. I came back in Thailand in 2019 via BKK airport entering with visa exempt 30 days; I was taken to interview by immigration officer who clearly told me that I can't come on visa exempt anymore due to my long stay in 2018. I've never worked in Thailand and had largely enough money to show them. I'm from a western European country. They listed me all my visas runs on the computer and even showed me all the pictures of me taken in the borders (Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia); they have everything on their computers.

 

 Then they even called my thai girlfriend in front of me to explain her the situation. After, they talked with her for about 15 min; they decided to let me in for this reason and told to my gf that I was let in only because they believed I stayed there long time due to her and they tried to understand the situation. The officer at the end of the interview explained me clearly that I could not come back with visa exempt or tourist visa again and that if I want to stay in Thailand I'd rather marry or try to find another solution. They was not agressive but explain me in a polite way that I can't have a long stay in Thailand on tourist visas or exempts. They told me we let you like this for about a year and that was enough time for me to decide what I wanna do and get the right visa.

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Enzo555

[MisguidedPangolin]

9 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Your previous post re your visit to imm office advised you that you could stay in Los 365 days ...what a crock. Think post #30 or 32.

Why bother playing games. 

BTW do you know metv is only available in home country. Good luck with reentry.

 

Is it just text delivering your tone badly or do you really have a lovely ray of sunshine for a personality?

 

Anyway, I'm not sure what Los means. I'm not familiar with the cliquey jargon here, I'm obviously not highly clued up on all this which is why I'm here asking for help. If you'd like to help I'd be greatly appreciative, but it doesn't make sense to help in a way which isn't helpful. Terminology an idiot like me can understand would be really helpful.

 

I didn't know multiple entry visas were only available in one's home country. You may have noticed that I posted about my plan to head back to my home country this month which is where I'll be applying for the visa from. That works out nicely.

 

Why bother playing games? Well, yes, I'm asking myself that question lately. The thing is, the government isn't making clear rules or enforcing them consistently. This pushes one into playing games. I'd much prefer a clear set of rules which were readily available and stuck to. It's ridiculous that following the advice of multiple staff at the immigration department which all assured me is correct equates to 'playing games'. I do understand that's what it is. A lot of things about life in Thailand seem to revolve around 'playing games'. Unfortunately this seems to be the norm in a lot of South East Asia. Often 'playing games' is the only way things can be done at all out here.

[MisguidedPangolin]

14 minutes ago, Enzo555 said:

Hi, 

 

 I can share with you my experience if it can help you. In 2018, I've stayed about 10 months in Thailand with tourist visas and extensions; I had only 10 months stay on my passport; it was my first long stay in Thailand, before that I just used to come 2/3 weeks for holidays. After 10 months I went back to my country in Europe and stayed about 3 months. I came back in Thailand in 2019 via BKK airport entering with visa exempt 30 days; I was taken to interview by immigration officer who clearly told me that I can't come on visa exempt anymore due to my long stay in 2018. I've never worked in Thailand and had largely enough money to show them. I'm from a western European country. They listed me all my visas runs on the computer and even showed me all the pictures of me taken in the borders (Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia); they have everything on their computers.

 

 Then they even called my thai girlfriend in front of me to explain her the situation. After, they talked with her for about 15 min; they decided to let me in for this reason and told to my gf that I was let in only because they believed I stayed there long time due to her and they tried to understand the situation. The officer at the end of the interview explained me clearly that I could not come back with visa exempt or tourist visa again and that if I want to stay in Thailand I'd rather marry or try to find another solution. They was not agressive but explain me in a polite way that I can't have a long stay in Thailand on tourist visas or exempts. They told me we let you like this for about a year and that was enough time for me to decide what I wanna do and get the right visa.

 

 

Thanks for this. It sounds fairly similar to what happened to me. They printed out all my entries and exits for Thailand since my first arrival about five years ago and showed them to me. They do indeed have everything on file. They didn't tell me that I couldn't come in again on tourist visas, just gave me a vague 'not too much' instruction. When I asked how soon after this trip I could come back, they told me to go to the immigration department for a clear answer (which obviously makes no sense, but they obviously just wanted to pass the buck, even if it was to a department they knew wouldn't give a proper answer).

 

What did you end up doing for 2019? This is directly relevant to me and very helpful. It's interesting that I didn't get pulled up for it until more than a year after you did, despite me doing what you were doing for much longer.

[Tony125]

23 hours ago, MisguidedPangolin said:

 

Interesting you say that, the only other time I've had issues entering Thailand was coming back over the friendship bridge from Vientiane. That was about 3 years ago. A lot has changed since then. I had to ...'discuss' the situation with them and eventually they seemed to just let me in because sending me back to Laos seemed too difficult for them (I said I didn't think Laos would let me straight back in, which seemed to sway them). They told me to get a visa next time, and since then every time I went from Laos to Thailand I've gone to get a visa from the embassy.

 

I didn't know the larger airports tended to be more strict. So I might do better flying into Pattaya etc?

 

I was thinking about extending my current visa but since they weren't happy about me coming in at all this time and only gave me 2 weeks instead of 30 days I figured it would either get knocked back or look a bit bad/cheeky and make it difficult to enter next time.

 

But anyway, it sounds like you're saying as long as I enter by land I shouldn't have trouble doing it twice per year and I'll be able to extend each of those? That would be great, it would give me a total of four months (which inlcuding time out of Thailand at about 20-30 days at a time would give me a fair bit longer) and that would give me enough time to either sort out work or something, or to give up on Thailand and find an alternative. I get the impression that I may not do too well at a land border without a visa though (or even with one!). In the office at DMK they reminded me multiple times that having a visa in advance doesn't guarantee entry into Thailand and they pointed to a poster on the wall which said this.

 

It would be great if this country could decide on some rules, make them known, and stick to them.

Here is some clarification for you:

1. If you do a border run to a nearby country by land you are allowed 2 Visa Exempt (30 day entrance) per calendar year which can be extendedfor an additional 30 days at immigration for 1900baht.

2 If you fly into a nearby country then cross into Thailand by a land border with a Tourist visa ( 60 days ) you probably will not be stopped entering Thailand. You can extend that at immigration for 30 days for 1900 baht.

3. An Elite Visa (5  years ) cost $15,000 USD (1 time payment in full no monthly pay option)but you can come and go as you please.

[MisguidedPangolin]

20 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

Here is some clarification for you:

1. If you do a border run to a nearby country by land you are allowed 2 Visa Exempt (30 day entrance) per calendar year which can be extendedfor an additional 30 days at immigration for 1900baht.

2 If you fly into a nearby country then cross into Thailand by a land border with a Tourist visa ( 60 days ) you probably will not be stopped entering Thailand. You can extend that at immigration for 30 days for 1900 baht.

3. An Elite Visa (5  years ) cost $15,000 USD (1 time payment in full no monthly pay option)but you can come and go as you please.

 

Thanks for this. 1 and 2 I'm quite aware of and I've done plenty of this in various combinations (too much, according to some of the relevant Thai border folks). The issue I'm having and the vagueness comes from the fact that while these are the rules, and apparently there are no official restrictions, some but not all Thai government employees seem to think there are restrictions on how often you can do this, even though the rules actually say unlimited entries by land. There is apparently an unofficial rule of a maximum 180 days on tourist visas per year which only some staff enforce and apparently only some are even aware of. It seems it comes down to discretion of whoever you happen to be dealing with when entering, and they apparently stop people coming in even when they don't violate any of the actual rules.

 

I was hoping to get more clarification on the above but over the last 48 hours I think the clarification boils down to the picture itself being muddy, no matter how clearly you can see it.

 

I was hoping to get some ideas on the realities of minimum requirements for work and study visas, but the good folks here are unwilling or unable to address that question.

 

As for option 3, US$15k up front no refunds is too big a commitment for me to make at this point. If I'm still here in a year or two and I'm wanting to stay long term and I'm sure about it, then yes, I'll probably be considering that one. It's a blatant bribe, but I guess if you want to stick around here you have to accept the rules of the games the powers that be are playing. At this point I'm questioning if Thailand is even a place I want to deal with much longer, in no small part due to the games the powers that be are playing.

[Enzo555]

1 hour ago, MisguidedPangolin said:

 

Thanks for this. It sounds fairly similar to what happened to me. They printed out all my entries and exits for Thailand since my first arrival about five years ago and showed them to me. They do indeed have everything on file. They didn't tell me that I couldn't come in again on tourist visas, just gave me a vague 'not too much' instruction. When I asked how soon after this trip I could come back, they told me to go to the immigration department for a clear answer (which obviously makes no sense, but they obviously just wanted to pass the buck, even if it was to a department they knew wouldn't give a proper answer).

 

What did you end up doing for 2019? This is directly relevant to me and very helpful. It's interesting that I didn't get pulled up for it until more than a year after you did, despite me doing what you were doing for much longer.

 You are welcome. After they let me in in 2019, I planned to go on ED visa as I really wanted to learn thai in a language school. After I went in on exemption and make the papers with the school, I travelled to Laos and got the ED visa. It was easy because the first one for me; Came back by land border without any issue. 

 All the visa extensions every 3 months in the local immigration office were easy to do. I never had any issue at the local immigration offices (even before on tourist visa when I had to make extensions). Never had any question. The sole issue I got was at the bkk airport (heard about similar situations in Chiang Mai airport too)

 

After a year on ED visa and following the testimonies from my school and others; it seems more and more difficult to remain on this kind of visa even if you are real learner. School and agents do not recommend to go to Laos following many refusals. There are other consulates like Ho Chi Minh or Bali but nothing is sure; I'm planning to go the Elite Visa. 

 

 

[ukrules]

You're not going to be able to live here for 10 months per year at your age on a long term basis without the Elite visa.

 

You might be able to get away with an Ed visa for a while but that too will expire unless you do a full university course.

 

Another option would be to get a job which will come with a visa or be married. Take your pick.

 

I went with the Elite visa and it works just fine. There are never any problems at all.

 

They're making it up as they go at the airport, there is no 180 day law. There used to be but it was scrapped.

Edited December 6, 2019 by ukrules

[tjo o tjim]

Fly in on business class tickets where you will get access to the elite line in BKK.  They don’t ask questions then and usually give you the benefit of the doubt.  That can give you an extra entry, but beyond 8 months I think you will have a challenge on anything but Elite.

[sunnyboy2018]

On 12/5/2019 at 3:55 PM, MisguidedPangolin said:

 

I'm not sure what CW zoo means.

 

I don't think the land border entries thing is relevant. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that if I was to leave Thailand right now and come back by land next week (I've only entered by land once this calendar year) they'd either not let me in or give me only a short stay. I doubt the situation would change much on January 1, but I'm not sure, perhaps their unofficial 180 day rule would reset. Either way, the number of land entries isn't my issue. Perfectly happy to take planes rather than buses if it makes any difference, but it doesn't seem to.

 

I think CW zoo refers to the Immigration Office in Bangkok in an area called Chang Wattana.

[brewsterbudgen]

12 hours ago, MisguidedPangolin said:

In case anyone is wondering, the trip to the immigration department went as follows.

 

I can stay until December 24, they cancelled the cancelled stamp put in my passport after it was initially stamped. If I wanted to pay the 1,900 baht they would have happily extended until late January. I'd already told friends I'd be heading to Australia for xmas and given my recent experience coming in I figured I wouldn't push it, so didn't extend.

 

All the staff I spoke to (3 of them) at immigration were surprisingly polite, friendly and eager to help as best they could. Very different from the last time I went in a few months ago, when two different staff members yelled at me (literally raising their voice angrily) because I was wearing shorts and others gave me nasty glares. The previous time I went in was over a year ago, plenty of people were wearing shorts, some in singlets, many in flip flops, no one seemed to care then. Actually, no one cared about the people in flip flops, singlets etc today either. From what I gather/guess, someone worked out that getting angry at people wearing shorts who are *on holiday* in a *tropical country* touted as a *fun and relaxing destination* wanting to extend their visa so they could *stay longer and spend more money in the country* was a stupid idea likely to be correlated with the *drop in tourism relative to expected figures actually being experienced at the time* and they sent a memo around.

 

None of them (and they went around asking the other staff) knew anything about a 180 day rule, official or otherwise and thought it was strange thing for me to be concerned about. They'd literally never heard a thing about it and seemed completely genuine. They assured me that as long as I left Thailand for more than 1 day at a time I could come back as many times as I wanted, with or without a visa in advance. They were happy to assure me there is no reason I couldn't spend about 360 days per year in Thailand on tourist visas/extensions (30/60/90 days at a time with one day in between each) as long as I'm not working or studying (in which case I can get a study or work visa). Needless to say, I am completely unconvinced that border staff would be as eager to be so nice. They did say that border staff may question me again, but if I wasn't working or studying and politely answered any questions, I would surely be let in. I'm completely unconvinced, but reporting what I was told.

 

Any helpful or potentially helpful comments (or polite criticism) would be greatly appreciated, but if anyone want to squabble further or accuse me of being a troll please do so in another thread.

Interesting to read that there is such a huge disconnect between what Immigration say you're allowed to do, and what is actually being enforced by Border Control officers!  

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Interesting to read that there is such a huge disconnect between what Immigration say you're allowed to do, and what is actually being enforced by Border Control officers!  

Some airport immigration crews are the ones making up non existent rules to deny entry and then put bogus reasons from section 12 of the immigration act as the reason for denial of entry.

[Caldera]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Some airport immigration crews are the ones making up non existent rules to deny entry and then put bogus reasons from section 12 of the immigration act as the reason for denial of entry.

Exactly. I've never had any issues when attempting to extend a visa exempt or tourist visa stay at an immigration office within Thailand, and I've used many different ones over the years. They simply didn't care how much time I had spent in the country previously.

 

If those 180 days max per year were indeed sanctioned by the very top of immigration, that simply wouldn't happen.