When do I have to leave?

[Hog Whisperer]

My visa is good till 27/01/20.

Immigration stamp when I returned from a vacation in October says Admit until 31/01/20.
WP expires 30/12/19.

 

I am on an annually renewable job contract. If this doesn't renew for 2020 do I have to leave when my WP expires or do I have till end of Jan? I have been advised to talk to our HR which I will at some point but I don't want to make these inquiries until my renewal situation clears. But what's the standard practice?

Thank you.

[steve187]

what permission to stay are you on, 

[ubonjoe]

You cannot legally work without a work permit. If they want you to work they need to renew your work permit.

Technically your extension of stay issued by immigration on the day your work permit ends.

[Hog Whisperer]

Thank you for your responses.

 

53 minutes ago, steve187 said:

what permission to stay are you on, 

Category F visa (employer is an NGO) issued about a year ago.

 

51 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You cannot legally work without a work permit. If they want you to work they need to renew your work permit.

Technically your extension of stay issued by immigration on the day your work permit ends.

I have no intention of taking another job if I am terminated or quit myself. Just wondering till when I have to pack my bags. Till the day the WP expires 30/12 or till the Admitted Until day 31/1?

 

What you are saying, Joe, is that it's the WP day. Correct? In that case, HR will have to take some action to get that on my passport, like getting the Admitted Until day changed, right? Otherwise, that 31/1 should hold from just looking at the passport, unless the WP system is linked to the Imm system. Or am I missing something?

 

Incidentally, I don't mind leaving earlier as long as I have a couple of weeks notice. But the problem is my work place is 60km. from my apartment and I would rather not have to make a couple of trips if HR says, Bring your passport in tomorrow, then collect it ...

 

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Hog Whisperer said:

What you are saying, Joe, is that it's the WP day. Correct? In that case, HR will have to take some action to get that on my passport, like getting the Admitted Until day changed, right? Otherwise, that 31/1 should hold from just looking at the passport, unless the WP system is linked to the Imm system. Or am I missing something?

Working and having a work permit is a condition for your extension to remain valid.

The organization needs to decide what they are going to do. 

There is no linkage between the Labor Ministry and immigration. Immigration will not know about your work permit expiring.

[Hog Whisperer]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The organization needs to decide what they are going to do. 

There is no linkage between the Labor Ministry and immigration. Immigration will not know about your work permit expiring.

Thanks, Joe. That's clear then.

 

Just hope they won't be hardassed and insist on revising my passport. I would much rather be Thailand than Farangland in Jan.

[ubonjoe]

Just now, Hog Whisperer said:

Just hope they won't be hardassed and insist on revising my passport.

The date you extension ends cannot be changed. They would have to give you a termination letter the date your job ends. Then you would have to go to immigration to have your extension canceled.

[Hog Whisperer]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The date you extension ends cannot be changed. They would have to give you a termination letter the date your job ends. Then you would have to go to immigration to have your extension canceled.

Then I have one more question.

 

First my contract is till the end of this year. So, they won't need to terminate me with a letter, jut no new contract.

 

In that case, am I legally obliged to "have to go to immigration to have your extension canceled", or can I just fly out end Jan?

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Hog Whisperer said:

n that case, am I legally obliged to "have to go to immigration to have your extension canceled", or can I just fly out end Jan?

You could get away with staying until your extension end and the fly out. But not formally canceling it you could cause problems it you ever want to get another one for working.

Your contract ending  does not end your extension. You would need a termination letter stating your last day of work.

[overherebc]

You haven't mentioned how long you've been there.

Will they pay notice and severance that you should be entitled to??

[Hog Whisperer]

22 minutes ago, overherebc said:

You haven't mentioned how long you've been there.

Will they pay notice and severance that you should be entitled to??

Couple of years. No other issues. They are good people.

[overherebc]

9 minutes ago, Hog Whisperer said:

Couple of years. No other issues. They are good people.

That's good they will pay what you're due and not the usual 'you're not due severance because it's a contract' that many try to do.

[BritTim]

Based on your original post, it is possible that our advice is based on incorrect assumptions. Terms like visa, permission to stay, extension and reentry permit are very important in your case.

 

The most reasonable interpretation is that you are in Thailand on a 90-day entry from a multiple entry Non F visa. That would imply that you entered Thailand on 03/11/2019. In that case (and you say the visa expires 27/01/2020)

• your permission to stay does not expire when your work contract and/or work permit expires; and
• you can even leave and reenter Thailand on or before 27/01/2020 and receive a further 90-day permission to stay.

As far as I can see, other explanations require either the immigration official to have made a mistake or you to have incorrectly stated your situation.

 

If you were granted an extension of stay (not a visa) until 27/01/2020 at an immigration office in Thailand, then when you left and reentered Thailand you should also have had a reentry permit also specifying that date. On return to Thailand, that is also the date that you should have been given on your restored permission to stay. If you have an extension and reentry permit, you should get the permission to stay corrected. Other than that, the rest of the advice above is correct.

[Hog Whisperer]

7 minutes ago, BritTim said:

As far as I can see, other explanations require either the immigration official to have made a mistake or you to have incorrectly stated your situation.

Ok, so here it is again:

Visa: "Category "F" Good for multiple return journeys to Thailand ... must be utilized before 27 Jan 2020. Issued on 28 Jan 2019.

Latest immigration stamp: Date 18 Oct 2019. Admitted Until 31/01/2020.

Work Permit: MUST EXTEND BEFORE 30 Dec 2019.

 

The first two are from my passport, the last one from the blue book. My appointment letter from my employer says I have a contract till 31/12/19. So I won't be terminated with an official letter as such. They simply won't give me another contract which means I will be out of employment end of the year.

[BritTim]

31 minutes ago, Hog Whisperer said:

Ok, so here it is again:

Visa: "Category "F" Good for multiple return journeys to Thailand ... must be utilized before 27 Jan 2020. Issued on 28 Jan 2019.

Latest immigration stamp: Date 18 Oct 2019. Admitted Until 31/01/2020.

Work Permit: MUST EXTEND BEFORE 30 Dec 2019.

 

The first two are from my passport, the last one from the blue book. My appointment letter from my employer says I have a contract till 31/12/19. So I won't be terminated with an official letter as such. They simply won't give me another contract which means I will be out of employment end of the year.

You need to get the permission to stay stamp corrected. If you entered Thailand on 18 Oct 2019, your permission to stay should be until 15 Jan 2020.

 

On or before 15 Jan 2020, you can leave and get a further 90-day permission to stay. Technically, you could make a further border bounce before 27 Jan 2020, but that would only buy you a few further days and is unlikely to be worth it unless you want to make a trip then for other reasons.

 

The date on which you must leave Thailand is not tied to your work permit or contract of employment. That is only true if you have an extension of stay for working (which you do not). Of course, if your work permit expires, you can no longer legally work.

[Captain 776]

We would take your Passport and cancel your Work Permit and when we cancel your Wor Permit, Immigration then gives you a 30 day Tourist stamp and then you have 30 days to leave or get a proper extension.

[steve187]

3 minutes ago, Captain 776 said:

We would take your Passport and cancel your Work Permit and when we cancel your Wor Permit, Immigration then gives you a 30 day Tourist stamp and then you have 30 days to leave or get a proper extension.

is that with a visa entry, or an extension of sty from immigration

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Captain 776 said:

We would take your Passport and cancel your Work Permit and when we cancel your Wor Permit, Immigration then gives you a 30 day Tourist stamp and then you have 30 days to leave or get a proper extension.

Never heard of 30 days being given. Who told you that?

The one stop center will give 7 days to leave the country and at other immigration offices you to apply for an extension pay the 1900 and then you will be granted 7 days to leave the country after the application is denied.

[Hog Whisperer]

I called our HR Visa person this afternoon. She said I have till the visa expiration day 27/1/20 to leave. I didn't bring up the Admit Until stamp as the conversation was over the phone in broken English but I'll take it that that day 31/1/20 is the real D-day.

 

I specifically mentioned that my WP is till 30/12. She wasn't interested. "You can stay how long your visa."

 

Which makes sense as I don't see the point in my employer proactively taking my passport and trying to shorten my stay by a paltry 30 days to co-terminate with my WP. If in that "extra" 30 days I work a new job without the WP being extended or get into some kind of mischief it's my funeral.

 

And 30 days seems about the right "grace" period to pack up and leave. If it were say 120 days then there would be a point about staying too long beyond the job. But then why the heck would an employer arrange a visa in the first place that goes so far beyond the work contract/WP? Unlikely.

 

Anyway, thanks all for your input.

 

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Hog Whisperer said:

I called our HR Visa person this afternoon. She said I have till the visa expiration day 27/1/20 to leave. I didn't bring up the Admit Until stamp as the conversation was over the phone in broken English but I'll take it that that day 31/1/20 is the real D-day.

 

I specifically mentioned that my WP is till 30/12. She wasn't interested. "You can stay how long your visa."

 

Which makes sense as I don't see the point in my employer proactively taking my passport and trying to shorten my stay by a paltry 30 days to co-terminate with my WP. If in that "extra" 30 days I work a new job without the WP being extended or get into some kind of mischief it's my funeral.

 

And 30 days seems about the right "grace" period to pack up and leave. If it were say 120 days then there would be a point about staying too long beyond the job. But then why the heck would an employer arrange a visa in the first place that goes so far beyond the work contract/WP? Unlikely.

 

Anyway, thanks all for your input.

Ask @ubonjoe (the resident expert) to confirm that what I wrote in https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1137313-when-do-i-have-to-leave/?do=findComment&comment=14830454 is correct.

 

1. You should get your current permission to stay stamp corrected.
2. Your visa and the permissions to stay based on it are not tied to your employment, and you can continue to use them.

[Hog Whisperer]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Your visa and the permissions to stay based on it are not tied to your employment, and you can continue to use them.

Agree and I do plan to stay till the Admitted Until (=permission to stay, I assume) stamped on my last entry which is a month past my employment end.

 

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

You should get your current permission to stay stamp corrected.

Why? If my employer doesn't care and if Imm and Labor are separate then there is no reason.

[BritTim]

34 minutes ago, Hog Whisperer said:

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

You should get your current permission to stay stamp corrected.

Why? If my employer doesn't care and if Imm and Labor are separate then there is no reason.

Because the current stamp is in error. You should only have been admitted for 90 days. If you stay until December 31, you will be on a 16-day overstay. Immigration will not take responsibility for the incorrect stamp. You will be fined 8,000 baht and the overstay may create problems in the future.

[Hog Whisperer]

35 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Because the current stamp is in error. You should only have been admitted for 90 days. If you stay until December 31, you will be on a 16-day overstay. Immigration will not take responsibility for the incorrect stamp. You will be fined 8,000 baht and the overstay may create problems in the future.

Nonsense. My visa is multiple entry and I've traveled out of Thailand every other month since Jan. this year, which is when it was issued. Each time the stamp on entry was Admitted Until 31/01/2020. The last time was Oct. mentioned in the OP and I leave tomorrow again for a week.

[BritTim]

32 minutes ago, Hog Whisperer said:

Nonsense. My visa is multiple entry and I've traveled out of Thailand every other month since Jan. this year, which is when it was issued. Each time the stamp on entry was Admitted Until 31/01/2020. The last time was Oct. mentioned in the OP and I leave tomorrow again for a week.

If that is the case, please post scans of your visa and most recent entry stamp (hiding personally identifiable information). You cannot have a multiple entry Non O which only allows 90 days on each entry. I fear that instead you have an extension of stay from an immigration office within Thailand, together with a reentry permit. This totally changes your situation as the extension of stay most certainly is tied to your employment.

[ubonjoe]

5 hours ago, Hog Whisperer said:

Nonsense. My visa is multiple entry and I've traveled out of Thailand every other month since Jan. this year, which is when it was issued. Each time the stamp on entry was Admitted Until 31/01/2020. The last time was Oct. mentioned in the OP and I leave tomorrow again for a week.

No visa allows the same permitted to stay date every time you enter the country.

Only a re-entry permit issued by immigration allows the same permit to stay date. I think you have a multiple re-entry permit issued to keep a permit to stay from an extension issued by immigration not a visa.

Check you your passport to see exactly what you have.

 

[Hog Whisperer]

10 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No visa allows the same permitted to stay date every time you enter the country.

Wrong! See the Admitted Until days on the left below. And it's been the same Admitted Until day for trips abroad in June/Aug...

 

10 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Only a re-entry permit issued by immigration allows the same permit to stay date. I think you have a multiple re-entry permit issued to keep a permit to stay from an extension issued by immigration not a visa.

Wrong again! See the visa. Once HR gave me the passport with that visa past Jan., I've had it all the time, only getting it stamped at the airport on exit/entry. So no extension by immigration etc.

 

10 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Check you your passport to see exactly what you have.

I did. I appreciate your advice. I know you have a deservedly good rep in this forum which is why I decided to respond again. But please don't delete my posts without good reason. My response to BT may have been a tad "cute" but it was not out of line.

 

 

[BritTim]

Unfortunately, your re-entry permit has a misleading name. A "re-entry visa" is not really a visa. It is a protection of an existing permission to stay. Usually, in has the clearer name "re-entry permit". That stamp is different from the re-entry permit I have usually seen.

 

Sadly, your permission to stay will expire (and your re-entry permit will be useless) when your employment ceases.

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, BritTim said:

Unfortunately, your re-entry permit has a misleading name. A "re-entry visa" is not really a visa. It is a protection of an existing permission to stay. Usually, in has the clearer name "re-entry permit". That stamp is different from the re-entry permit I have usually seen.

That is a special visa issued for those in special cases such as  a non-f visa that the MFA issues. From MFA website.'to perform official duties (Category "F")". It is completely different from extensions and re-entry permits issued by immigration.

If the OP had posted the copy of his visa before it would of had a better understanding what exactly he had.

What seems to be very odd is the admitted until date on his entry stamps dated January 31st. They could be due to that being the date he was given first time he got a entry stamp from the visa.