Jump to content
BANGKOK
Formaleins

Getting More Juice.

Recommended Posts

I posted a while back about not being able to get enough current to our house from the main supply which is about 100 yards from the house right next to a step down transformer. I am not sure if it is the supply to the village that is limited or the cables to my place that are stopping us getting anywhere near 45A. Crossy mentioned to me before ( but I misunderstood) about rigging a heavier cable with 10mm pigtails at each end. I thought that he meant running two 10mm cables.

 

So, if anyone has had similar experiences (We do not have 3 phase here so not an option) I had a few thoughts about what might be possible, please chip in and tell me if it is a no no or complete stupidity, I need to check all the options.

 

1: Would it make much difference (yes it would cost a bit) to run 10mm Copper the 100 yards to our house? Would I see a significant increase in current? (We are limited on the cable CSA due to the sizes of the consumer unit inputs, 10mm is as big as it allows)

 

2: Would EGAT be willing to double up the cables? anyone had this done? two of the 10mm aluminium into a joint near the meter and consumer unit into a single 10mm?

 

3: Would EGAT joint a heavier cable with the pigtails like Crossy mentioned or would I need to do that myself (I cannot find the type of 3M jointing compounds here anyway)

 

4: How about asking EGAT to put in another meter? anyone had that done before? I thought about a second meter on 10mm aluminium cable to a separate breaker and consumer unit that was just dedicated to the heavy duty stuff like water heaters and showers and keeping the original meter for the rest of the house. Looking at our electric bill, it doesn't appear to cost anything like a standing charge for a meter, you only seem to pay for what you use.

 

We already have an "agricultural" meter - the 5A version that runs a couple of pumps for the land and if you don't use more than a certain amount, you get it free.

 

As always Gents, any helpful advice is appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

In general you will not get a second meter for a house unless it is split into 2 addresses.

Yes, I was thinking that this might be a possible problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Install an AVR?

 

What good will that do if I cannot even get the current from my existing supply? Voltage is not the issue, it is POWER! I already have 230V that supplies about half of the 45 A, if I install an AVR I will end up with even less power. all I want is the extra Amps. as Orker says, I cannot get two meters, so how about fatter cables or upgrading to copper?

Edited by Formaleins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the voltage when you pull 90A?  Is 90A what you need?  That is where the AVR helps you, increasing current upstream and increasing voltage downstream.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the marking on the existing cables? When you say "10mm cable" do you mean 10mm2 or 10mm in diameter? Is it copper or aluminium?

 

For a 100m run @ 50A you will be looking at 25mm2 copper cable.

 

What size meter do you have (5-15, 15-45, 30-100)?

 

To address your points:-

 

1. Best bang per buck to replace your cable from meter to house would be to use 35mm2 (or even 50mm2) aluminium cable. It's a lot cheaper than copper. It won't fit in the consumer unit so splice a length of smaller copper onto the end (put the joint outside the house).

 

2. EGAT (actually PEA) don't do anything after the meter. That's all down to you or your contractor (who could be PEA chaps moonlighting - talk to them).

 

3. Your contractor will do the pigtails if you tell him to, otherwise he will trim stands to fit (bad practice).

 

4. If you already have a second meter you could likely get that upgraded. But if your incoming supply is bad it won't make a lot of difference.

 

What's your actual load? Can you post some voltage/current figures? Make measurements at your consumer unit incoming terminals and at the meter.

 

Have you measured the voltage at the meter? If it's going low there it's time to talk to PEA as it's their problem.

 

Can you post photos of the transformer, if you're that close to it you really shouldn't be having issues unless it's badly overloaded (PEA again).

 

Sorry if you've answered these questions before, but it's best to have all the information in one place.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He may have PEA issues.

 

You cannot compensate for stupidity. The idiots around here mess with the supply with huge welders and other juice suckers, sometimes my supply will drop to 120 Volts. Usually an idiot in the village messing with the supply. I can only hope that each time it drops below 200V one of them is getting fried. The more worrying problem is when they mess with the supply further up the village we end up getting about 150 Volts and then the water pump goes mental. It cannot push the water through and just runs and runs until it runs dry then the thermal cut outs come in. This has to be damaging it, but there is no comeback on these idiots. The other thing is if you have PC's, the sods can disrupt the supply for about 2 seconds and cause the PC's to reboot... they have crashed my PC's over and over, again, you cannot get justice and go out and hang them. (Sadly)

Edited November 20 by Formaleins
 
Edited by farmerjo
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Crossy said:

What is the marking on the existing cables? When you say "10mm cable" do you mean 10mm2 or 10mm in diameter? Is it copper or aluminium?

 

For a 100m run @ 50A you will be looking at 25mm2 copper cable.

 

What size meter do you have (5-15, 15-45, 30-100)?

 

To address your points:-

 

1. Best bang per buck to replace your cable from meter to house would be to use 35mm2 (or even 50mm2) aluminium cable. It's a lot cheaper than copper. It won't fit in the consumer unit so splice a length of smaller copper onto the end (put the joint outside the house).

 

2. EGAT (actually PEA) don't do anything after the meter. That's all down to you or your contractor (who could be PEA chaps moonlighting - talk to them).

 

3. Your contractor will do the pigtails if you tell him to, otherwise he will trim stands to fit (bad practice).

 

4. If you already have a second meter you could likely get that upgraded. But if your incoming supply is bad it won't make a lot of difference.

 

What's your actual load? Can you post some voltage/current figures? Make measurements at your consumer unit incoming terminals and at the meter.

 

Have you measured the voltage at the meter? If it's going low there it's time to talk to PEA as it's their problem.

 

Can you post photos of the transformer, if you're that close to it you really shouldn't be having issues unless it's badly overloaded (PEA again).

 

Sorry if you've answered these questions before, but it's best to have all the information in one place.

Some answers for you - Meter is 15/45, cable is aluminium, there are no markings left on it (been in the sun for 15 years) it is 8 core aluminium, ( I believe it is 25mm Sq. / 750V) @ 70C total diameter inc. insulation is 9mm, the cores are 2mm diameter. - voltage at the meter is OK, voltage at the consumer unit is OK until it is loaded. Normally we are drawing about 5 Amps, it is only when we run the 8KW heater the voltage drops to about 197V. I expected that we should be drawing about 40 Amps when the heater is on along with the TV's fridges etc. but all we are getting is 26A. (so if you knock off the 5 amps background draw, the shower is only running at about 5KW.) Cheers for the help.

 

I know you said about fitting thicker cable with splices / pigtails, could I not just splice two cables together?

Edited by Formaleins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anyone knows of a good electrical supplier in Chiang Mai or Lamphun that sells good quality cables of the sort of sizes Crossy mentioned, please give me a shout as the only cable I can find locally is the same as what I already have and if I mention copper they just laugh at me and tell me "Expensive"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, as another said "get an AVR" 

we had the same issue and had blown up aircompressors, airconditioners and water pumps and such and was told by the electric company that they aint going to be upgrading anything until more people complain. Since this we went solar anyway, best thing we did... less bills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doubling up what you have would be a decent way to go, it would also open the door to 3-phase should it become available.

 

The cable you have does look like 25mm2 Al. Add two more runs of the same stuff and link them in pairs for an equivalent 50mm2🙂

 

What's the voltage dip like at the meter when you fire up the water heater?

 

An AVR may be the next step after adding extra cable (which would be lowest cost option), but do read my AVR thread, you wouldn't normally run your water heater through it.

 

For the best selection of cable and wire check out SK Universal http://www.sk-wires.com/en/ they are fast delivery and their English speaking man k. Bell is most helpful.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, unamazedloso said:

Yep, as another said "get an AVR" 

we had the same issue and had blown up aircompressors, airconditioners and water pumps and such and was told by the electric company that they aint going to be upgrading anything until more people complain. Since this we went solar anyway, best thing we did... less bills.

OK thanks for that, I need to read up more on these things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Doubling up what you have would be a decent way to go, it would also open the door to 3-phase should it become available.

 

The cable you have does look like 25mm2 Al. Add two more runs of the same stuff and link them in pairs for an equivalent 50mm2🙂

 

What's the voltage dip like at the meter when you fire up the water heater?

 

An AVR may be the next step after adding extra cable (which would be lowest cost option), but do read my AVR thread, you wouldn't normally run your water heater through it.

 

For the best selection of cable and wire check out SK Universal http://www.sk-wires.com/en/ they are fast delivery and their English speaking man k. Bell is most helpful.

 

I will check out the cables. My only worry is the people not understanding how to attach them - they will simply clip off enough strands to make em fit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Doubling up what you have would be a decent way to go, it would also open the door to 3-phase should it become available.

 

The cable you have does look like 25mm2 Al. Add two more runs of the same stuff and link them in pairs for an equivalent 50mm2🙂

 

What's the voltage dip like at the meter when you fire up the water heater?

 

An AVR may be the next step after adding extra cable (which would be lowest cost option), but do read my AVR thread, you wouldn't normally run your water heater through it.

 

For the best selection of cable and wire check out SK Universal http://www.sk-wires.com/en/ they are fast delivery and their English speaking man k. Bell is most helpful.

 

The voltage drop at the heater is from 230V down to 197V Thanks for your help, I have contacted those guys you sent me the link to, let you know what happens. Real headache at the moment with this problem, the weather has changed and we cannot get hot enough water. After the storm that wrecked all the wiring there is just too much to do, spending days with a chainsaw trying to clear fallen trees through where our cables go, some 100 foot trees down, concrete cable posts broken like twigs and 10 foot high grass and jungle. Another 200 litres of Roundup mixture sprayed again today. All this <deleted> and having to repair chainsaws and Honda motors and pumps just to get access is getting a bit much these days for this old dog. Not to mention the snakes that have taken up residence in my breaker boxes..... open the door with a stick after the last few experiences. Not sure who is scared more, me or them, but I am not venomous and usually don't bite!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...