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Planning to get married need advise re visa/wife's property rights

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15 minutes ago, digibum said:

I imagined as such but didn’t see anything preventing that kind of transfer from happening and thus asked.  

 

My wife and I have been considering buying land in her name and then giving me a 30 year lease on the property.  If she were to die before me, I would not want to be in a position of having to dispose of the land within 1 year.  That seems rife for people to just lowball you on the land knowing there’s a clock ticking.  If I die before her, she keeps the land regardless.  

 

I haven’t checked into it too thoroughly but was hoping that by having the long-term lease, I could essentially give the property away for peanuts and as long as I can live there until I die, it wouldn’t bother me too greatly.  

 

Any other ways around the ticking clock?  

Don't think there are any ways around it.

One thing that strikes me is the   why buy a house here? when you die your wife will get it.

If you buy a house in UK and your wife never works a day then when you die she will get it. Or  if you get divorced you will lose everything. 

When you sign the divorce papers at the office there is a section to complete on who wants what etc. You agree on it and sign it.

Edited by overherebc

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1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

Does not matter where they go - they did not mention changing her citizenship - but indeed you have a valid point that it could be problematic with dual citizenship as that is a gray area just as in USA.  Not likely to be an issue if she did not lose Thai citizenship but might be if relatives out for the kill so probably best to avoid issue.

Dual citizenship is not a grey area in the US.  

 

There are a not insignificant number of American-born American citizens that hold citizenship in other countries.  As an American citizen, I can easily hold citizenship in any country that does not require me to renounce my US citizenship.  

 

The US State Department even has a page on their website discussing dual citizenship.  

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

 

They clearly state on the website:

 

Quote

U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. A U.S. citizen may naturalize in a foreign state without any risk to his or her U.S. citizenship.

 

They even discuss the fact that you must enter and exit the US on a US passport and that you may be required to enter and exit the country of your other citizenship on their passport.  

 

The US has left the topic alone, because there are all sorts of situations where the US doesn’t mind you being a dual citizen but the other country may prohibit it and if the US says it is OK and they say it isn’t then you have conflicting laws and it becomes a diplomatic issue.  

 

So, they basically say, “It’s ok” and it’s up to you to make sure you’re legally compliant in both countries.  

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2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Don't think there are any ways around it.

One thing that strikes me is the   why buy a house here? when you die your wife will get it.

If you buy a house in UK and your wife never works a day then when you die she will get it. Or  if you get divorced you will lose everything. 

When you sign the divorce papers at the office there is a section to complete on who wants what etc. You agree on it and sign it.

 

Well, first of all, I don’t live in the UK, nor am I a UK citizen 🙂

 

But the other way of looking at it is that my wife and I lived in a community-property state (both parties own everything 50-50 in a divorce).  We owned a house that was worth 4x- 5x whatever I plan on spending on place in Thailand.  If she was going to divorce me and take my money, she missed her big payday 🙂

 

Bottom line is that I don’t plan on spending all my cash on a house.  I just want a place that we can live in until we both croak.  I just don’t want to get kicked off my property if she goes before I do.   

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2 minutes ago, digibum said:

I haven’t checked into it too thoroughly but was hoping that by having the long-term lease, I could essentially give the property away for peanuts and as long as I can live there until I die, it wouldn’t bother me too greatly.  

That should work. In my situation, I'll just have my nephew take title for free, as he's the wife's contingency heir anyway. Neither he, nor any stranger taking title can remove me from the property while the lease (or usufruct) remains in effect (which it will if I take no action to modify the lease on the chanote). Interestingly, if you do nothing, supposedly the land office will eventually sell your land. But, you won't care who the stranger is as, again, he can't remove you as long as the lease runs. However, a little tidier to have someone take title who is, or might be someday, in your Will.

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1 hour ago, digibum said:

So, they basically say, “It’s ok” and it’s up to you to make sure you’re legally compliant in both countries.  

Which is the gray - there is no US law authorizing dual citizenship - that policy currently accepts reality does not mean that will always be the case - less likely to be an issue in USA due to huge mixed race population (I hope).

Edited by lopburi3

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1 hour ago, overherebc said:

 

One thing that strikes me is the   why buy a house here? when you die your wife will get it.

Why would you not want your wife to get the house? Why get married?

I had a friend who had a prenuptial. When he got divorced, he got half the estate. However, he did in suspicious circumstances a few months after the settlement.  

We got a mortgage, which is the same as renting a similar house. This should be paid off in 2 years. 

My children or grandchildren should eventually inherit everything.

 

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22 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Which is the gray - there is no US law authorizing dual citizenship - that policy currently accepts reality does not mean that will always be the case - less likely to be an issue in USA due to huge mixed race population (I hope).

You’re saying two entirely different things.  
 

US law is based on the concept that that which is not explicitly prohibited is permitted.  Even the US constitution uses that language.   
 

So there doesn’t need to be a law making it legal.  
 

How the law changes in the future is also not a grey area.  It’s like saying, drunk driving is a grey area because it may become legal in the future.  
 

A grey area is when there is a law or conflicting laws which make something vague.  Often the justice system chooses not to pursue charges so people operate in a grey area. 
 

A good example of grey area is medical marijuana in the US.  It’s illegal at the federal level but legal at the state level.  The USDOJ chooses not to prosecute but they could change that at the snap of someone’s fingers.   
 

You’re trying to use grey area when you should say that dual citizenship, at least from the US gov’s position, is not something they promote because it often results in grey areas with the other country.  
 

For instance, it’s not illegal for a Thai citizen to obtain US citizenship but it is not allowed or a grey area for The Thai government.  
 

The US gov is never going to come out and say, “Yes, Thai citizens are welcome to hold dual citizenship” because it would <deleted> off the Thai government.  

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On 12/8/2019 at 12:33 PM, problemfarang said:

but i can get some money from the land if things go bad.

Optimistic... maybe if wife or family want to give you some. 

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2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Why would you not want your wife to get the house? Why get married?

I had a friend who had a prenuptial. When he got divorced, he got half the estate. However, he did in suspicious circumstances a few months after the settlement.  

We got a mortgage, which is the same as renting a similar house. This should be paid off in 2 years. 

My children or grandchildren should eventually inherit everything.

 

I agree. I was referring to the guys who spout about not buying because of their aversion to their wife getting the house when they die. You know the never buy just rent.

Spend 10,000 a month rent for 10 years and when you move out you get ( if you're lucky ) 20,000 back.

If you buy you can sell for whatever the market dictates and for sure it will be more than 20,000 baht, you can rent it out later if you fancy a move.

 

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4 hours ago, digibum said:

For instance, it’s not illegal for a Thai citizen to obtain US citizenship but it is not allowed or a grey area for The Thai government.  
 

 Correct, there are too many high ranking govt officials with dual citizenship to make any law. 

 

For me, the grey area is the wording. I got a letter from the UK embassy saying I intend to renounce my UK citizenship . However, the Consul assures me they don't  care and  the Thais dont either.

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No more posts for a few days from me.

Just had news my brother has passed on so I will not be too inclined to post for a while.

Serious post by the way lads.

Edited by overherebc

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