renovation costs of condo?

[jacko45k]

7 hours ago, newnative said:

Thailand is hot enough so I prefer just a warm shower. 

I have had to turn my water heater up this week.... I certainly won't be showering without its help. My bathroom has tiled walls and painted ceiling, and I don't ever shower with the door open as I don't want all that heat and humidity back in the bedroom. I just can't imagine wallpaper staying up... I also have to get up and clean a bit of mould off the ceiling and treat it every 6-9 months. 

[moonseeker]

Not, if you belong to the 5% of Doers vs. 95% of Talkers. Have great day. Same allover the world. MS>

[Destiny1990]

10 hours ago, newnative said:

    It's your choice to believe me or not.  I don't think making a profit is that big a deal but maybe if I go into a little more detail you'll see what exactly it is we do.  And why buyers will pay more money for our condo than the guy's next door.  We don't lose money on our condo sales because we simply don't sell unless we make a profit--why would we if we don't need the money?  No reason to lose money unless your back is against the wall and you have no other choice.  Sometimes the profit is small but we haven't ever lost money--here or in America.  But, again, not a big deal.  Sell when you can make a profit and 'a bird in the hand' tend to guide us.

     Obviously, there is much more to a successful design than just adding wallpaper--that's only one element.  There's a lot of planning and detail work involved in getting things right--especially with small spaces--that would take too long to explain so I'll just hit some of the highlights.  Usually we will re-work the lighting--which is often inadequate--and redesign or upgrade the kitchens.  Proper storage is always important and we always try to add more.  Baths are often without vanities so we always put them in with drawer storage. If you have a cluttered, messy bath counter you likely lack storage drawers.  Often the doors and trim are bad.  We do a lot of carefully-planned custom furniture that takes some work to get right;  sometimes the planning needs to be down to the centimeter in small spaces.

      I think our strength is with space planning and designing with a unified look--which makes smaller condos function much better and look more attractive.  As an example of what we do, about a year ago we started a Bangkok studio design of just 24 sqm in a new project.  There were 3 big problems with the condo.  1. The bedroom built-in armoire was poorly placed so the bed could not be centered on the wall and, with a king bed which we wanted, one side of the bed could not have a bedside table, in addition to the space being out of balance (yes, we think about things like that).  Also, you had to open the armoire doors to get to the 2 small drawers--bad design and it would drive me nuts.  Who can live with just 2 small drawers, by the way?  So, bad, poorly placed armoire--and cheap materials, to boot. 

     2. The bathroom was very small and when you opened the bathroom door it took up a lot of the bathroom space and was very awkward to maneuver around.  Not good.  3.  There was no designated, built-in space for the refrigerator.  Instead, it was just to be parked on a wall opposite the main kitchen cabinets--never a good look seeing the ugly side of a refrigerator.  A minor extra problem was the under counter space for the washing machine in the kitchen did not have a cabinet door so you would be looking at the washing machine--not good.  

    So, with this project we designed twin custom armoires for either side of the bed with an overhead bridge cabinet with down lighting connecting them--resulting in much more storage space and the bed now properly centered on the wall. Pullout shelves in each armoire function as bedside tables.  We got rid of the regular bathroom door and installed a sliding door in the same gloss material as the armoire--the bathroom works much better now. To house the refrigerator so you didn't see the ugly sides, we designed a custom refrigerator cabinet with overhead luggage storage and a matching dining table with 2 slim drawers as part of the cabinet. Took advantage of a notch in the wall to add a shelf above the table.  And, added a cabinet door to hide the clothes washer. (There are new clothes washers available now with less depth that will fit under a standard kitchen counter and allow a cabinet door to work.)

     We were originally going to keep this condo for ourselves so we splurged on a very comfortable leather 2-seat electric reclining sofa and a couple of timeless Asian cabinets to play off the new, glossy furniture. To separate the bed area a bit from the living room, we had a see-thru wall screen made.  Slim side table for the sofa, window blinds, some artwork, accessories, flowers, and done.  Oh, I forgot, wallpaper on the walls to dress up the drab, off-white, boring painted walls that all the condos in the project come with.

     The condo, bought off-plan before construction from a large builder with a good reputation for finishing projects, cost 2.4MB rounded up, including FET.  The developer paid the closing costs and sinking fund for the first early buyers--which we were.  So we start with 2.4MB.  Renovations/furnishings cost 394,000 baht rounded up--a bit high but we were designing this for ourselves.  The new armoire, sliding door, refrigerator cabinet/dining table, shelf, and washer cabinet door were all done by the same Bangkok company and cost 185,000 baht rounded up.  The rest was other furniture, appliances, tv, bed, art, etc. The most expensive single item was the armoire at 84,000 baht--but well-worth it as it was the focal point of the condo and set our condo off from everything else in the building.  We did save on the wallpaper--the condo was so small we had enough leftover wallpaper from another condo to do the job!  

     We priced it at 3.5MB and sold for 3.25MB in June to the first buyer to look at it. (In hindsight we may have priced too low but it was just a studio on a lower floor with not much of a view.)  Bird in hand...  Sometimes sales come quickly like this one and sometimes there is a wait--our last Pattaya condo sale took over a year--such is real estate.  Our share of the closing costs was 163,000 baht and we negotiated a payment of only 90,000 baht to the buyer's quasi agent.  (Buyer and budding agent were Chinese.)  So, 3,250,000 minus 394,000 minus 163,000 minus 90,000 leaves us with 2,603,000.  Minus our initial cost of 2,400,000 leaves us with a profit of 203,000 baht.  One of our least profitable ventures but we did make a little money and we only had it for about 7 months.  And, had a lot of fun with the design, with the hunt for just the right furniture and art, and with seeing the whole project come together.  I do know that one person's fun may be another person's torture.  For me, it's fun. 

     At one of the new condos we lived at a few years ago we met our next-door neighbors when they moved in.  The wife styled herself as a decorator and boasted proudly that she had completely decorated their condo with just an hour visit to Index.  I think we are able to sell, and make at least a small profit, because we do quite a bit more than that.

      

        

Long story anyway yes you just pimp the unit here and there.

Obviously you have found a way to avoid all the costly taxes involved in each sale and in each purchase.

You also found a creative way not to transfer you money in and out and changing it  into other currencies for each condo deal. You can keep ur unsold units but in the last 5 years the resale units here lost 30% of their value. All together a very unattractive climate for flip (flops)

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Destiny1990 said:

Long story anyway yes you just pimp the unit here and there.

Obviously you have found a way to avoid all the costly taxes involved in each sale and in each purchase.

You also found a creative way not to transfer you money in and out and changing it  into other currencies for each condo deal. You can keep ur unsold units but in the last 5 years the resale units here lost 30% of their value. All together a very unattractive climate for flip (flops)

      I guess you missed the part where I paid 163,000 baht in closing costs on the condo sale so I did not 'avoid all the costly taxes involved in each sale...'.  I did avoid the taxes on the initial purchase because the developer paid them as an incentive for buyers to close early on their condo purchases.  This same thing happened when we bought our condo at The Base--Sansiri paid the closing costs for the first buyers who closed early.  Sometimes you catch a deal.                 If a condo has lost 30% of its value in Pattaya it likely is in one of the 1000 unit, low-rise, no-view, cookie-cutter, out-of-the-way, 'theme park' developments of which far too many were built in Jomtien.  On the bright side, an owner still has a roof over his or her head (not a small thing), low housing costs, and these projects usually have nice pools and amenities.  

      If a seaview condo in a good building in a good location (hint: this is what you should buy in Pattaya) has lost 30% of its value (which I doubt) it likely needs--and I'll use your words--to be 'pimped' a bit.  Actually, it couldn't hurt to 'pimp' the theme park condo a bit, too, to make it stand out from all the other look-alike units with the exact same furniture.  You want to give a buyer a reason to buy your unit and not the one next door.

[Destiny1990]

12 hours ago, newnative said:

      I guess you missed the part where I paid 163,000 baht in closing costs on the condo sale so I did not 'avoid all the costly taxes involved in each sale...'.  I did avoid the taxes on the initial purchase because the developer paid them as an incentive for buyers to close early on their condo purchases.  This same thing happened when we bought our condo at The Base--Sansiri paid the closing costs for the first buyers who closed early.  Sometimes you catch a deal.                 If a condo has lost 30% of its value in Pattaya it likely is in one of the 1000 unit, low-rise, no-view, cookie-cutter, out-of-the-way, 'theme park' developments of which far too many were built in Jomtien.  On the bright side, an owner still has a roof over his or her head (not a small thing), low housing costs, and these projects usually have nice pools and amenities.  

      If a seaview condo in a good building in a good location (hint: this is what you should buy in Pattaya) has lost 30% of its value (which I doubt) it likely needs--and I'll use your words--to be 'pimped' a bit.  Actually, it couldn't hurt to 'pimp' the theme park condo a bit, too, to make it stand out from all the other look-alike units with the exact same furniture.  You want to give a buyer a reason to buy your unit and not the one next door.

Hint most properties here have steadily lost value over the last 5 years regardless of the location. Main Causes are oversupply, strong bht, and less long term tenants available...this all makes the value  drop! Still Currency fluctuations and cost of sending and exchanging currencies over are still left out ur calculations.  

The problem with your business model is that it isn’t a real business model . You buy off-plan that’s already a big no no in Thailand then u waiting for years praying god that they will finish it .. meanwhile all these years u keep sending ur foreign currency in from abroad.. Then-its your turn to pimp it with wallpaper and a sofa and then maybe you can make 100 k profit...I remain very very skeptical ur poor flips ! Not worth the risk imho.

Honestly better go to a casino roulette and put 100 k on black just as much Chance to get the same 100 k profit with the upside of only can loose the 100k instead of your risk loosing 30% on upfront payment installments of 3 M unit purchase price..Which is 933,000 Bht investment!!

[fhickson]

On 12/9/2019 at 3:10 PM, newnative said:

Me, too!  One of the joys of Thailand is wonderful weather that lets you enjoy an open balcony year-round.

thais dont like open weather balconies however. they like to be inside with ac.

[newnative]

14 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Hint most properties here have steadily lost value over the last 5 years regardless of the location. Main Causes are oversupply, strong bht, and less long term tenants available...this all makes the value  drop! Still Currency fluctuations and cost of sending and exchanging currencies over are still left out ur calculations.  

The problem with your business model is that it isn’t a real business model . You buy off-plan that’s already a big no no in Thailand then u waiting for years praying god that they will finish it .. meanwhile all these years u keep sending ur foreign currency in from abroad.. Then-its your turn to pimp it with wallpaper and a sofa and then maybe you can make 100 k profit...I remain very very skeptical ur poor flips ! Not worth the risk imho.

Honestly better go to a casino roulette and put 100 k on black just as much Chance to get the same 100 k profit with the upside of only can loose the 100k instead of your risk loosing 30% on upfront payment installments of 3 M unit purchase price..Which is 933,000 Bht investment!!

    Umm.  Nobody's twisting your arm and making you do condo flips--and please don't start because I honestly don't think it is for you.  You seem to get so worked up about the risk of a project not being completed and the condo oversupply and all the condos losing 30% and gambling at roulette would be less risky and so on and so on post after post.  Relax.  Play the stock market instead.

    Perhaps if you read a bit more carefully you wouldn't be so worried about me.  You pick out a word here and there in my posts but seem to miss the point.  Yes, we bought off-plan but you missed the part about buying from a well-respected builder with a good track record of finishing projects. That was the key take-away.  Don't buy from some no-name, fly-by-night builder.  I didn't need to 'pray' (and you didn't need to worry) that it would be finished--it was and it was done early. 

    Obviously, buying off-plan you need to also look at the financials--put simply, what price am I buying at off-plan and what price increase can I reasonably expect when the project is completed?  Recently we passed on buying off-plan on a project in Pattaya.  The builder was quite respectable--no problem there--but the off-plan price per sqm was around 180,000 baht.  Extremely high for Pattaya.  We didn't see any way there would be a price increase at project completion so we didn't buy.  Of course, we could be wrong but it was too risky for us and we didn't like the project anyway.  In comparison, with the Bangkok condo we sold, we bought off-plan at 100,000 baht a sqm and sold for a little over 135,000 baht a sqm. (2.4MB divided by 24sqm and 3.25MB divided by 24sqm.) 

    Apparently you also didn't retain any of the detailed description of what is involved in a good renovation that will attract a buyer--just 'sofa' and 'wallpaper' seemed to stick.  That's likely not going to get you far or bring you much success.  Again, please try something else--and maybe focus on something else less stressful.

    Finally, what you really missed was the human dimension.  This is something I very much enjoy doing--as I have stated several times.  Yes, some of the flips only net 200,000 but some net considerably more--but whether I make a little or more than a little each one brings enjoyment.  The kid's happy and doing ok so chill.  

[Destiny1990]

15 hours ago, newnative said:

    Umm.  Nobody's twisting your arm and making you do condo flips--and please don't start because I honestly don't think it is for you.  You seem to get so worked up about the risk of a project not being completed and the condo oversupply and all the condos losing 30% and gambling at roulette would be less risky and so on and so on post after post.  Relax.  Play the stock market instead.

    Perhaps if you read a bit more carefully you wouldn't be so worried about me.  You pick out a word here and there in my posts but seem to miss the point.  Yes, we bought off-plan but you missed the part about buying from a well-respected builder with a good track record of finishing projects. That was the key take-away.  Don't buy from some no-name, fly-by-night builder.  I didn't need to 'pray' (and you didn't need to worry) that it would be finished--it was and it was done early. 

    Obviously, buying off-plan you need to also look at the financials--put simply, what price am I buying at off-plan and what price increase can I reasonably expect when the project is completed?  Recently we passed on buying off-plan on a project in Pattaya.  The builder was quite respectable--no problem there--but the off-plan price per sqm was around 180,000 baht.  Extremely high for Pattaya.  We didn't see any way there would be a price increase at project completion so we didn't buy.  Of course, we could be wrong but it was too risky for us and we didn't like the project anyway.  In comparison, with the Bangkok condo we sold, we bought off-plan at 100,000 baht a sqm and sold for a little over 135,000 baht a sqm. (2.4MB divided by 24sqm and 3.25MB divided by 24sqm.) 

    Apparently you also didn't retain any of the detailed description of what is involved in a good renovation that will attract a buyer--just 'sofa' and 'wallpaper' seemed to stick.  That's likely not going to get you far or bring you much success.  Again, please try something else--and maybe focus on something else less stressful.

    Finally, what you really missed was the human dimension.  This is something I very much enjoy doing--as I have stated several times.  Yes, some of the flips only net 200,000 but some net considerably more--but whether I make a little or more than a little each one brings enjoyment.  The kid's happy and doing ok so chill.  

I just want to warn copy cats that the chance for them to make a profit if they are following YOUR  approach is 1% and 99% chance they will be ending up with a loss.

However i do like your posts in general but I regard them merely as entertainment and or as very naive to say the least.

[newnative]

37 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

I just want to warn copy cats that the chance for them to make a profit if they are following YOUR  approach is 1% and 99% chance they will be ending up with a loss.

However i do like your posts in general but I regard them merely as entertainment and or as very naive to say the least.

     I doubt anybody is reading my posts and saying, hey I want to do that too!  I, too, want to go from store to store searching for just the right sofa, or just the right dining set or just the right antique piece.  With the right dimensions.  I, too, want to go from store to store looking for the best prices on appliances and electronics.  I, too, want to sit at a desk and design custom furniture that will fit in the space and improve the condo and then work closely with the furniture maker to insure it all turns out right.  I, too, want to go from store to store looking for the right art and accessories for the space--and when I can't find it have an artist make it for me. I think few would say, yes I want to do that.   I love doing it but realize that most would find it torture rather than fun.

     You obviously don't understand that we have been able to make a profit on each condo because we put in the work.  We take our time before we buy any condo, we try to buy wisely at a low price in a good location, and we take a lot of time and thought designing our renovations.  When we are done, we have something different from the condo next door.  So far we have been able to find a buyer for each condo that wants what we have done.  It just takes one buyer.  If we don't make a profit, we don't sell and continue to use the condo ourselves.  Not really brain surgery.  

    With the Bangkok condo I have been using as an example, we worked on the design off and on for the year the condo project was being built.  We went back to the showroom several times to study the show model.  It was a challenging project because the condo was so small--only 24 sqm.  And, as with most of our renovations, we were designing this for ourselves so we wanted it to be the best we could make it, within a reasonable budget.  Although we are almost always designing for ourselves, we have resale in mind because we tend to be restless.

    Although you think this is a business I am doing, it isn't really.  It's more of a hobby.  With the Bangkok condo, we ended up selling it because we decided we like spending time in Bangkok and we want a bigger, one bedroom condo.  We sold it when we got an offer that made us a profit.  We would still own it and would still be using it for ourselves if an offer hadn't come along.  We haven't bought another Bangkok condo yet--still studying--but when we do it will be another condo renovation that we start out doing for ourselves.

     With the experience of buying and selling 19 condos, we have learned a few things, which I sometimes pass along.  Like only buying off-plan from a respected builder with a good track record. That advice comes from buying once from a first-time builder.  It turned out ok in the end but it wasn't a good experience and we realized afterwards that we were lucky the project got done.  So, lesson learned and never again.

     In Pattaya we always buy seaview and would never not buy seaview.  Beach community and lots of buyers--including us--only want seaview.   We seldom buy for investment but when we do we make sure we could live in the condo ourselves if push came to shove.  If we don't want to live there why would a buyer want to?  

     We've owned and renovated 5 condos at 3 different new, big condo projects in Pattaya that rapidly turned into more hotel than condo.  Two of the condos we lived in and the other 3 were bought for investment--our only investment condos of the 19.  All 5 were profitable but we didn't like living in a hotel atmosphere so we will not be buying a condo in any of the big, new projects. Instead, our current Pattaya condo reno, which we will live in, is in a smaller building that sold its condos before Airbnb became popular.  There are too few units for someone to come in and buy 30 or 40 units and set up an illegal boutique hotel within the condo project.  With enforcement so lacking with illegal daily renters, I think this is the best bet to avoid living  in a condo turned hotel.

     Ok.  I'll let you get back to your important work of warning people.  Carry on.

 

     

[scubascuba3]

18 minutes ago, newnative said:

In Pattaya we always buy seaview and would never not buy seaview.  Beach community and lots of buyers--including us--only want seaview.   

Are you talking directly looking over the sea, or including partial or distant seaview?

[Destiny1990]

53 minutes ago, newnative said:

     I doubt anybody is reading my posts and saying, hey I want to do that too!  I, too, want to go from store to store searching for just the right sofa, or just the right dining set or just the right antique piece.  With the right dimensions.  I, too, want to go from store to store looking for the best prices on appliances and electronics.  I, too, want to sit at a desk and design custom furniture that will fit in the space and improve the condo and then work closely with the furniture maker to insure it all turns out right.  I, too, want to go from store to store looking for the right art and accessories for the space--and when I can't find it have an artist make it for me. I think few would say, yes I want to do that.   I love doing it but realize that most would find it torture rather than fun.

     You obviously don't understand that we have been able to make a profit on each condo because we put in the work.  We take our time before we buy any condo, we try to buy wisely at a low price in a good location, and we take a lot of time and thought designing our renovations.  When we are done, we have something different from the condo next door.  So far we have been able to find a buyer for each condo that wants what we have done.  It just takes one buyer.  If we don't make a profit, we don't sell and continue to use the condo ourselves.  Not really brain surgery.  

    With the Bangkok condo I have been using as an example, we worked on the design off and on for the year the condo project was being built.  We went back to the showroom several times to study the show model.  It was a challenging project because the condo was so small--only 24 sqm.  And, as with most of our renovations, we were designing this for ourselves so we wanted it to be the best we could make it, within a reasonable budget.  Although we are almost always designing for ourselves, we have resale in mind because we tend to be restless.

    Although you think this is a business I am doing, it isn't really.  It's more of a hobby.  With the Bangkok condo, we ended up selling it because we decided we like spending time in Bangkok and we want a bigger, one bedroom condo.  We sold it when we got an offer that made us a profit.  We would still own it and would still be using it for ourselves if an offer hadn't come along.  We haven't bought another Bangkok condo yet--still studying--but when we do it will be another condo renovation that we start out doing for ourselves.

     With the experience of buying and selling 19 condos, we have learned a few things, which I sometimes pass along.  Like only buying off-plan from a respected builder with a good track record. That advice comes from buying once from a first-time builder.  It turned out ok in the end but it wasn't a good experience and we realized afterwards that we were lucky the project got done.  So, lesson learned and never again.

     In Pattaya we always buy seaview and would never not buy seaview.  Beach community and lots of buyers--including us--only want seaview.   We seldom buy for investment but when we do we make sure we could live in the condo ourselves if push came to shove.  If we don't want to live there why would a buyer want to?  

     We've owned and renovated 5 condos at 3 different new, big condo projects in Pattaya that rapidly turned into more hotel than condo.  Two of the condos we lived in and the other 3 were bought for investment--our only investment condos of the 19.  All 5 were profitable but we didn't like living in a hotel atmosphere so we will not be buying a condo in any of the big, new projects. Instead, our current Pattaya condo reno, which we will live in, is in a smaller building that sold its condos before Airbnb became popular.  There are too few units for someone to come in and buy 30 or 40 units and set up an illegal boutique hotel within the condo project.  With enforcement so lacking with illegal daily renters, I think this is the best bet to avoid living  in a condo turned hotel.

     Ok.  I'll let you get back to your important work of warning people.  Carry on.

 

     

How about uploading some photos of condo interiors pimped by you?

 Since you went overboard with the bathroom wallpapers i am getting curious about your overall design..

 

[newnative]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Are you talking directly looking over the sea, or including partial or distant seaview?

They all have had seaview in highrise buildings except for one in a lowrise building directly oceanfront.  Most were fairly close to the ocean--the View Talays, Lumpini Park Beach, Unixx, and some others. The condos on Pattaya Second Road were back a block but high floor so still nice ocean views and also coastline.  One of the investment condos had what I would call a distant seaview--but it was on floor 35 so it had a nice night time view to compensate a bit.

[newnative]

3 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

How about uploading some photos of condo interiors pimped by you?

 Since you went overboard with the bathroom wallpapers i am getting curious about your overall design..

 

You thought the one photo I uploaded was horrible so why would I bother.  And, who likes being called a pimp.

[CNXexpat]

On 12/9/2019 at 8:53 PM, newnative said:

I do know that one person's fun may be another person's torture.  For me, it's fun. 

I love to make interior design, walk through shops and search the perfect furniture and decorations - and so I would never ever buy a furnished condo or house. I will never understand, why so many new and really expensive (pent-)houses are always sold fully furnished. If I pay millions for an estate, I want to see my own individual taste in it and not the taste of an unknown person, which is perhaps different than mine and I have to kick out things I don´t like. If I buy the condo/house to live in. If it´s for renting out, I wouldn´t care. 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, CNXexpat said:

I love to make interior design, walk through shops and search the perfect furniture and decorations - and so I would never ever buy a furnished condo or house. I will never understand, why so many new and really expensive (pent-)houses are always sold fully furnished. If I pay millions for an estate, I want to see my own individual taste in it and not the taste of an unknown person, which is perhaps different than mine and I have to kick out things I don´t like. If I buy the condo/house to live in. If it´s for renting out, I wouldn´t care. 

     Enjoyed your post.  I, too, don't like to buy condos fully furnished--as I usually hate the furnishings and I have to kick them out, too, and put in what I like that is my taste.  I always say if you have a choice, DO NOT pay for the furniture package offered by a condo project--the furniture is usually over-priced and not good quality.

    One of my pet peeves is that whether you spend 2MB to buy the cheapest studio in a project or 7MB to buy an expensive 2 bedroom unit, you often get the same kitchen cabinets and counters--usually poor quality.  Doesn't spending 7MB warrant a better kitchen?  Often not.  The same goes for furniture.  At one project I bought the largest 2 bedroom condo and also a small 1 bedroom.  They both came with the same 2 seat sofa--which was the right size for the 1 bedroom but way too small and useless for the larger condo.  

 

[Rimmer]

Topic is about:

renovation costs of condo?

[Destiny1990]

19 hours ago, newnative said:

You thought the one photo I uploaded was horrible so why would I bother.  And, who likes being called a pimp.

If you pimp a condo or a car then how does that make you a pimp? I never said you’re a pimp !

Anyway strange that you don’t upload some living room and or kitchen pics of your previously done flips..

[moonseeker]

On 12/11/2019 at 6:39 PM, newnative said:

     I doubt anybody is reading my posts and saying, hey I want to do that too!  I, too, want to go from store to store searching for just the right sofa, or just the right dining set or just the right antique piece.  With the right dimensions.  I, too, want to go from store to store looking for the best prices on appliances and electronics.  I, too, want to sit at a desk and design custom furniture that will fit in the space and improve the condo and then work closely with the furniture maker to insure it all turns out right.  I, too, want to go from store to store looking for the right art and accessories for the space--and when I can't find it have an artist make it for me. I think few would say, yes I want to do that.   I love doing it but realize that most would find it torture rather than fun.

     You obviously don't understand that we have been able to make a profit on each condo because we put in the work.  We take our time before we buy any condo, we try to buy wisely at a low price in a good location, and we take a lot of time and thought designing our renovations.  When we are done, we have something different from the condo next door.  So far we have been able to find a buyer for each condo that wants what we have done.  It just takes one buyer.  If we don't make a profit, we don't sell and continue to use the condo ourselves.  Not really brain surgery.  

    With the Bangkok condo I have been using as an example, we worked on the design off and on for the year the condo project was being built.  We went back to the showroom several times to study the show model.  It was a challenging project because the condo was so small--only 24 sqm.  And, as with most of our renovations, we were designing this for ourselves so we wanted it to be the best we could make it, within a reasonable budget.  Although we are almost always designing for ourselves, we have resale in mind because we tend to be restless.

    Although you think this is a business I am doing, it isn't really.  It's more of a hobby.  With the Bangkok condo, we ended up selling it because we decided we like spending time in Bangkok and we want a bigger, one bedroom condo.  We sold it when we got an offer that made us a profit.  We would still own it and would still be using it for ourselves if an offer hadn't come along.  We haven't bought another Bangkok condo yet--still studying--but when we do it will be another condo renovation that we start out doing for ourselves.

     With the experience of buying and selling 19 condos, we have learned a few things, which I sometimes pass along.  Like only buying off-plan from a respected builder with a good track record. That advice comes from buying once from a first-time builder.  It turned out ok in the end but it wasn't a good experience and we realized afterwards that we were lucky the project got done.  So, lesson learned and never again.

     In Pattaya we always buy seaview and would never not buy seaview.  Beach community and lots of buyers--including us--only want seaview.   We seldom buy for investment but when we do we make sure we could live in the condo ourselves if push came to shove.  If we don't want to live there why would a buyer want to?  

     We've owned and renovated 5 condos at 3 different new, big condo projects in Pattaya that rapidly turned into more hotel than condo.  Two of the condos we lived in and the other 3 were bought for investment--our only investment condos of the 19.  All 5 were profitable but we didn't like living in a hotel atmosphere so we will not be buying a condo in any of the big, new projects. Instead, our current Pattaya condo reno, which we will live in, is in a smaller building that sold its condos before Airbnb became popular.  There are too few units for someone to come in and buy 30 or 40 units and set up an illegal boutique hotel within the condo project.  With enforcement so lacking with illegal daily renters, I think this is the best bet to avoid living  in a condo turned hotel.

     Ok.  I'll let you get back to your important work of warning people.  Carry on.

 

     

Hi there, why do you let this people wind you up? 95% either don't have the money, the courage, the energy, capabilities or whatever to do a proper, nice reno-job. Let alone dishing out quick cash or recognize a good project. Dealing with contractors and sales people another story again. Good locations on the islands and agglomerations have been stable or gone up, even the last few years. Not talking about Pattaya Cheap Charlie shoeboxes in neglected buildings. The kind you find tons of in Pattaya. 

So many negative, cynical and envious people here. Best to ignore and continue to be successful. 

I don't mind critical posts, but some are just over the top and nonsense. 

Pool and Bartalk. Peak season for all the

experts. 

 

Keep building and flipping. Help the ???????? 

economy. Many contractors are grateful for new jobs, but as many are busy and have waiting list. Just got in queue for a large luxury remodel with my favorite team. Fully booked through April. Not too bad, remodels off season are bit easier overall and <deleted> off less neighbors. 

 

Best regards.  MS>

 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, moonseeker said:

Hi there, why do you let this people wind you up? 95% either don't have the money, the courage, the energy, capabilities or whatever to do a proper, nice reno-job. Let alone dishing out quick cash or recognize a good project. Dealing with contractors and sales people another story again. Good locations on the islands and agglomerations have been stable or gone up, even the last few years. Not talking about Pattaya Cheap Charlie shoeboxes in neglected buildings. The kind you find tons of in Pattaya. 

So many negative, cynical and envious people here. Best to ignore and continue to be successful. 

I don't mind critical posts, but some are just over the top and nonsense. 

Pool and Bartalk. Peak season for all the

experts. 

 

Keep building and flipping. Help the ???????? 

economy. Many contractors are grateful for new jobs, but as many are busy and have waiting list. Just got in queue for a large luxury remodel with my favorite team. Fully booked through April. Not too bad, remodels off season are bit easier overall and <deleted> off less neighbors. 

 

Best regards.  MS>

 

     Thanks for your post.  Sometimes Thai Visa will be rolling along smoothly with a topic like "Pattaya Condos Have All Become Totally Worthless--Those That Are Still Standing" and the usual suspects will be gleefully recounting horror stories from this or that friend or acquaintance who lost absolutely everything by foolishly buying a condo--and that's when it's fun to throw a monkey wrench into the works with a contrary take on things.   Best regards to you, too!