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drtreelove

Soil Fertility. In defence of the Albrecht system.

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I can't find the recent thread now where I mentioned the William Albrecht inspired system of mineralization and soil cation balancing as a basis for building soil heath.  Another poster commented that this system has been de-bunked. I heard that before, but here is a link to another opinion and I believe the truth of the matter.  Take it or leave it; i find it to be a superior approach.

 

 https://blog.nutri-tech.com.au/in-defense-of-albrecht/

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Interesting!  Had to laugh when they said the process was no good and then told it was an old mine site!  I have always remembered the words of my father "If you have worms in your soil, your soil is good"  Which leaves me scratching my head as #1 orchard has worms and the trees keep growing and producing fruit and at #2 orchard the soil is dreadful, I find very few worms but the trees are growing well....and we will get our first harvest next year.  In fact I have decided to plant more Mangoes at #2 on a reasonable level area.  Just 100 R2E2 variety. The ones already there are Mun Falan (a mango eaten green with sugar and chilli (yuk) or used in Som Tum) and 12 R2E2 trees.

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Hi Doc,

With the products this guy sells to follow this practise.

How does it compare to chemical farming cost wise for inputs and returns.

Let's say for a soya bean crop in Thailand.

Thanks.

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3 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Hi Doc,

With the products this guy sells to follow this practise.

How does it compare to chemical farming cost wise for inputs and returns.

Let's say for a soya bean crop in Thailand.

Thanks.

I don't have that kind of first hand experience to enable me to answer.  Reports I've seen and heard are that costs are less, crop quality and profitability become better as the transition is made. But it's not just about substitution of inputs. 

 

I have not used the Nutri-tech product line, which appears to be excellent adjuvants for soil fertility building and plant health, above and beyond the basic Albrecht mineral balancing system. 

 

As for cost comparisons for inputs and returns, I don't think it's that simple. Regenerative farming involves more than substitution of inputs, it involves changes in thinking and practices. See the interview with Klaas and Mary-Howell Martens in Graeme Sait's book Nutrition Rules. (free e-book when you sign up for the newsletter)  They are large-scale
organic growers in the US and talk about transitioning to nutrient dense organic farming, what it takes, costs and returns.  Like the only farmers that I know who make ends meet, they have developed niche markets and specialty crops for profitability. Natural Agriculture with their 120 rai organic farm in Chiang Mai have built their soil for key market produce to maintain 5% organic matter. They sell their organic products to resort restaurants from the north to the south.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, drtreelove said:

I don't have that kind of first hand experience to enable me to answer.  Reports I've seen and heard are that costs are less, crop quality and profitability become better as the transition is made. But it's not just about substitution of inputs. 

 

I have not used the Nutri-tech product line, which appears to be excellent adjuvants for soil fertility building and plant health, above and beyond the basic Albrecht mineral balancing system. 

 

As for cost comparisons for inputs and returns, I don't think it's that simple. Regenerative farming involves more than substitution of inputs, it involves changes in thinking and practices. See the interview with Klaas and Mary-Howell Martens in Graeme Sait's book Nutrition Rules. (free e-book when you sign up for the newsletter)  They are large-scale
organic growers in the US and talk about transitioning to nutrient dense organic farming, what it takes, costs and returns.  Like the only farmers that I know who make ends meet, they have developed niche markets and specialty crops for profitability. Natural Agriculture with their 120 rai organic farm in Chiang Mai have built their soil for key market produce to maintain 5% organic matter. They sell their organic products to resort restaurants from the north to the south.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Doc,

Like most i'm getting closer to the middle only using glyphosate as a knockdown prior to sowing at the moment.

I had a quick read of his site and it mentioned wiping out all the insects to get the beneficial ones numbers back up.

I didn't have a real problem with aphids this year but pod borers did quite a bit of damage toward the end of the season.

Is it worth nuking it or should a crop rotation make them move on.  

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This article the other day tells me organic growers don't get nearly enough for their produce which must be concerning for those wanting to make the change.It needs to be addressed.

 

Jakchai Chomthongdee, Oxfam Thailand's policy and campaigns manager, said in Thailand, farming is far from being a rewarding job. Farmers, he said, are not earning enough to enjoy an adequate standard of living and many are not reaping any benefits from the very food network they helped to build.

"For every 100 baht of produce sold in supermarkets, small-scale farmers and workers in the agricultural sector get less than 15 baht," according to Mr Jakchai.

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Unfortunately small scale farming went out a long time ago. There are niche markets for high value vegetables, but they require a lot of work, something not really practiced here. It also doesnt help with the overuse of chemicals here which shuts the door on many markets for thai fruits and vegetables.

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12 minutes ago, ireckonso said:

Unfortunately small scale farming went out a long time ago.

Not around here it hasn't luckily. A lot of family size farms that have got a lot better at marketing and have improved their farming techniques. Most villages remain serviced by the few that grow vegetables in their communities or buy from their village shops that buy from traders who supply the local markets. 

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Just now, drtreelove said:

the premise in nutrient density growing, with balanced mineralized and biologically active soil, pests are not attracted to plants and they stay away.  I have found that to be true in my own garden and for my customers. 

As you know I spent some time working with Nutri-tech and know Graeme Sait quite well. His approach is refreshing, looking at the total solution for soil, plant growth and human consumption implications. They consider both soil and plant in formulating their recomendations.

Just now, drtreelove said:

With highly competitive, low return field crops like this I don't think you can hope for a budget for soil building.

I agree. Here in my part of Thailand, I don't believe the villagers consider rice primarily as an income, more a way to feed and sustain themselves. Once bills are paid and the rice stored for the next year little remains to be sold at farm gate prices and little money received. Rice draws nutrients and the residues from the crop are not enough to replace those used even composted with the addition of farmyard manures. Green manure crops have made a difference but the cost of preparation and incorporation must be met. A negative sum game until you add in the cost of buying milled rice if you have a crop failure. 

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3 hours ago, ireckonso said:

Along with the billions of other handouts the last few years to the farming community here, yeah small family farms are thriving.

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30379176?utm_source=category&utm_medium=internal_referral

I've given up on rice,just enough to feed the family,those subsidies never make it this far and rice farming to me is hard on our machinery.

If you have an unlimited water supply which we normally have,not next year then other crops that can handle a 8-20" rainfall growing period are more suitable here.

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3 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

As you know I spent some time working with Nutri-tech and know Graeme Sait quite well. His approach is refreshing, looking at the total solution for soil, plant growth and human consumption implications. They consider both soil and plant in formulating their recomendations.

He has done well.

 

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Many of the solutions put forth by various researchers are only good if you have something decent to begin with. The soil here in thailand is so degraded to the point of almost no return, the degradation is so great Im not sure if anything other than starting small plot remediation and growing high value/roi fruits and vegetables to sell to the chinese and japanese markets is the only way to make it worth the effort. I visited a greenhouse close to roi-et last weekend who has contracted with a japanese company to grow melons for export, he is making a good effort but unfortunately he doesnt really understand the process yet. I will be visiting him again soon to share more knowledge and hopefully help him succeed. Another fairly large greenhouse near me growing lettuce in nft rails has been through 3 owners now and still are not able to grasp the simple techniques to make a go of it. The market is there and I believe hydroponics solves so many of the soil problems that it may be the best way forward for growing here, excluding anything you can combine.

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13 minutes ago, ireckonso said:

Many of the solutions put forth by various researchers are only good if you have something decent to begin with. The soil here in thailand is so degraded to the point of almost no return, the degradation is so great Im not sure if anything other than starting small plot remediation and growing high value/roi fruits and vegetables to sell to the chinese and japanese markets is the only way to make it worth the effort. I visited a greenhouse close to roi-et last weekend who has contracted with a japanese company to grow melons for export, he is making a good effort but unfortunately he doesnt really understand the process yet. I will be visiting him again soon to share more knowledge and hopefully help him succeed. Another fairly large greenhouse near me growing lettuce in nft rails has been through 3 owners now and still are not able to grasp the simple techniques to make a go of it. The market is there and I believe hydroponics solves so many of the soil problems that it may be the best way forward for growing here, excluding anything you can combine.

What do they say the lifespan of those greenhouses are here in Thailand.

When i travel to Khon Kaen i see a winery that has them,in tatters now.

5-6 years max.

Structure seem fine.

 

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