Tesla boss Elon Musk wins defamation trial over 'pedo guy' tweet

[Muzarella]

Pedo guy´s lawyer was very stupid asking for 190 million in court when Tesla´s guy probably was ready to pay 190 thousand on a private arbitration. Greed is not a good counselor.

[BestB]

16 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I expect that the attorney was working on a contingency basis which would be part of why the amount of damages sought was so high.

 

Fairly common arrangrment in the US. The lawyer gets nothing if they lose and about half the total award if they win. It is pretty much the only recourse open to people who aren't personally wealthy and want to sue, and lawyers won't undertake a case on contingency unless the stakes are pretty high.

True but winner can ask for court and his legal fees and plaintiff lawyers are not paying that. 

[BestB]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

 

Possibly.

 

And certainly a British jury or court would better appreciate the seriousness of a pedophile allegation against a man living in Thailand (i.e. that people might believe it/take it seriously) whereas an American jury could easily not. 

I doubt it was the word used that made them come to a decision but amount sought in damages . 
 

maybe if he was worth millions and as a result started to lose business and money , not when he is retired and just an ordinary guy. 

[P100]

10 hours ago, mittheimp said:

Very odd. Probably the worse insult you can give.. and then doubled down on it in several ways.. given by someone with a global reach of millions. If that is not defamation then i dont know what is.

A verdict like this can happen. In the US.  Of course there. I have been involved with law for a long time and have

no appreciation for the US justice system and this case once again prooves my points. But it's not yet over...

[JAG]

34 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I expect that the attorney was working on a contingency basis which would be part of why the amount of damages sought was so high.

 

Fairly common arrangrment in the US. The lawyer gets nothing if they lose and about half the total award if they win. It is pretty much the only recourse open to people who aren't personally wealthy and want to sue, and lawyers won't undertake a case on contingency unless the stakes are pretty high.

Your post, when read in conjunction with the perhaps surprising verdict in this case, tells us much about how the legal system in the USA works.

 

Basically, money talks. Musk has a lot of money.

[BigC]

6 hours ago, Odisan said:

"...he would **have** won." He's likely smart enough to know that difference.

However, I agree with the sentiment. $180 million is a ridiculous sum. Should've gone for much lower, taken a full, public apology, and put it to rest.

Could have settled out of court

 

Pay me 100 million dollars you can call.ne what you  like

[Mark mark]

A Very Rich American, who a LARGE proportion of the American population, revere and support to the Hilt ! … Like he is technically savvy, and is a Living example of the American Dream ! … AND he employs a LOT of People, and well the Americans … Like everyone else ... Support People ..That ... Support them ! And that is HIM !!! ... Elron Musk. … Against a Poor, Old, retired Caving Explorer bloke, in Chang Rai !!! … AND a Brit !!! …. The trial was just a Joke ! Maybe he should have sued him in Thailand !!! …

 

NO ONE should call an Innocent man, a Pedo, it is such a heinous crime !!! Without getting sued AND paying for it !!! .... The case is just another example of the present day, Popularism, and Self Interest Greed, .... Now even acceptable even when it is so obvious !    Like ! Well I had better not mention the other most obvious, open protagonist of this Corrupt Principle should I ! …..

 

It was not an honest trial I think, … it was just another, American Money Talks ! And (Deleted) walks Example of their corrupt and twisted thinking.  ....

 

I wonder if you could put a big wide strip, down one side of a Tesla, if you saw one, (Them not being very Popular in Thailand just now I would imagine ? ) … and you just happened to have a sharpened 20 Cent Piece in your Pocket !!! … (Or a Claw Hammer ? – Right ? ) ... 

[Mark mark]

The Jurors should be ashamed of them selves !!!

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, P100 said:

A verdict like this can happen. In the US.  Of course there. I have been involved with law for a long time and have

no appreciation for the US justice system and this case once again prooves my points. But it's not yet over...

What are your points that this this verdict proves? I only see one point made here. that you don't like the US legal system.

[JAG]

6 minutes ago, Mark mark said:

I wonder if you could put a big wide strip, down one side of a Tesla, if you saw one, (Then not being very Popular in Thailand just now I would imagine) … and you just happened to have a sharpened 20 Cent Piece in your Pocket !!! … (Or a Claw Hammer ? – Right ? ) ... 

I wouldn't advise it!

 

I suspect that the defence that "where I come from it is just a harmless bit of robust banter" wouldn't work here, or anywhere outside of California!

[elektrified]

A miscarriage of justice IMO. The American legal system is hopelessly broken and corrupt. Whoever can afford the most expensive lawyers wins.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

What are your points that this this verdict proves? I only see one point made here. that you don't like the US legal system.

You didn't ask me but I don't like it. I think a system of professional judges is better. I was on a jury myself once and that didn't do much to improve my opinion of the U.S. justice system. None of the other jurors even wanted to discuss the details of the case.

[Mark mark]

8 minutes ago, Mark mark said:

The Jurors should be ashamed of them selves !!!

The Jurors should be ashamed of them selves. !!!

 

... Still they are Americans ! Aren't they so they probably do not even realize it ! .... Just sticking up for a GOOD man ! ... That has Technological Nouse, and employs a LOT of People in ? California isn't it ? .... ... And Money.

[zydeco]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

None of the other jurors even wanted to discuss the details of the case.

Wrong.   

Quote

The foreman, Joshua Jones, said the panel decided that Unsworth’s lawyers spent too much time trying to appeal to their emotions and not concentrating on the evidence.

“The failure probably happened because they didn’t focus on the tweets,” Jones said after the verdict was announced. “I think they tried to get our emotions involved in it. In a court of law you have to prove your case, which they did not prove.”  theguardian.com/technology/2019/dec/06/elon-musk-vernon-unsworth-trial-verdict

 

[JAG]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You didn't ask me but I don't like it. I think a system of professional judges is better. I was on a jury myself once and that didn't do much to improve my opinion of the U.S. justice system. None of the other jurors even wanted to discuss the details of the case.

Personally I believe strongly in the right to be judged by your peers, in a jury trial properly conducted and advised by a judge. For criminal trials which may lead to imprisonment (or worse) it is central to the British and American justice system - Magna Carts and so on. But, in this sort of civil trial, where money rather than life or liberty are at stake I agree with you.

[gamini]

Not true at all. Unsworth knowledge is only Cave diving. He is not qualified to comment on the difficulties of getting the children out. Whilst Musks mini submarine, would have been far safer if he had the time to modify it. He would have used his inovative skills too. 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

You didn't ask me but I don't like it. I think a system of professional judges is better. I was on a jury myself once and that didn't do much to improve my opinion of the U.S. justice system. None of the other jurors even wanted to discuss the details of the case.

 Justice is such a nebulous, subjective endeavour ,that is  difficult to develop a bulletproof  system IMO. 

I won't disagree with you that the system could use improvement, but then again can you think of any legal system in the world that does not?  I thought that most judges today are professionals, I don't believe any of them are  amateurs.

  I think what you are saying is , a better system of how judges are selected  and more consistent qualification requirements.

  IMO how prosecutors are elected  and or monitored is as important if not more important. But when making reforms one need to be concerned with unforeseen consequences, and the ability of insiders to game reforms to their advantage.

  I am no legal expert and had limited involvement with the legal system, (My daughter  is in Univercity right now , studying law and working as a paralegal in a major law firm in our area) so I have a little insight  from conversations with her, and she also has her frustrations, but IMO the system, though it has its faults , is par , if nor above par, for the course.

   

[rod40a]

Only in America !!!

[Artisi]

5 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

So the serial big mouth who can’t keep it shut gets away insulting the guy who risked his life to save 13 kids.

Just for the records and to straighten out your misunderstanding, Unsworth didn't risk his life, he is a caver - not a diver and other than passing on his knowledge of the cave, he didn't venture into the flooded system. 

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

Not true at all. Unsworth knowledge is only Cave diving. He is not qualified to comment on the difficulties of getting the children out. Whilst Musks mini submarine, would have been far safer if he had the time to modify it. He would have used his inovative skills too. 

Yep, he could have modified it by  making it much smaller and bendy. 

Suggest you don't have a clue about the way in and out again of the cave. 

[herwin1234]

not only did Elton Muskrat called the guy a pedo in the heat off the twitter moment, he subsequently hired a private detective to dig up dirt for his pedo claim, and after intially apologizing for his pedo remark, doubled down and made the absurd claim that the rescuer was married to a child bride. 

Not surprised he was found not guilty, no way a gringo jury is going to judge in favor of an English guy.

Egomaniac coming to Thailand for some pr stunt not being able to take a silly comment from on of the real heroes had to burn Vern and Thailand to satisfy his bruised ego. 

[Monomial]

21 Pages and very little discussion of the real legal issue at hand. Elon Musk is a jerk. His comment was over the top. However, I can not find a single person who actually believed Musk's assertion that the guy was a pedophile.  He was still given awards and had pictures taken with government dignitaries.

 

In the USA, no matter how distasteful your comment is, it is not illegal to be a jerk. You have to prove actual harm was done if you want to sue somebody. When absolutely nobody believes the comments, and even Musk apologizes and retracts it so nobody has an incentive to believe it, there simply is no actual damage. We can all agree that Elon is a first class A-hole, but you can't sue somebody for that. The right to be as big a jerk as you want is enshrined in the American Constitution.  Even "hate speech" is legally protected in the USA, unlike other countries. If you find this offensive, remember that many Americans find laws like Germany's anti holocaust denial law equally distasteful.  It is a matter of culture, and America was built on the absolute premise you can voice your opinion about anything and everything in whatever way you want as long as it does not cause actual harm. 

 

For as big a jerk as Elon was, there simply was no crime committed. The jury gave the only decision possible under the circumstances.

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, gamini said:

Not true at all. Unsworth knowledge is only Cave diving. He is not qualified to comment on the difficulties of getting the children out. Whilst Musks mini submarine, would have been far safer if he had the time to modify it. He would have used his inovative skills too. 

Unsworth is a caver not a cave diver and more than qualified to comment on the difficulties of getting into and out of this particular cave. 

[luis888]

Personally I think today people are just so sensitive. I should really stop calling people dicks, before someone sues me.

Explain to me how he justifies $190 million in damages?

I'm pleased sanity ruled the day

[zydeco]

Older British man swimming around in the dark looking for young Thai boys is not a pedo guy.

[WhyamIhere]

 

 

 

 

Vern thought that he was going to win the lottery with this one!  If going after someone in court, no matter how much money they may have, asking for a 'reasonable' settlement is a given.

 

[khaowong1]

14 hours ago, canopy said:

At a time when everyone else was relieved and overjoyed the kids were rescued Vern chose to make his 10 seconds of fame by smugly blurting out insults and lies about Elon to millions by way of CNN. I never understood that. I also never understood why Elon retaliated so viciously. Glad a little childish nonsense between two adults did not result in multi million dollars changing hands. Hopefully Elon does not counter sue and leaves it alone. And hope Vern has learned something.

 

I agree.  Vern pretty much started the whole thing.  It was a heat of the moment thing and should have never gotten this far.  Of course, LA isn't Thailand, so defamation is pretty much a he said, she said thing.  

[khaowong1]

1 hour ago, Monomial said:

21 Pages and very little discussion of the real legal issue at hand. Elon Musk is a jerk. His comment was over the top. However, I can not find a single person who actually believed Musk's assertion that the guy was a pedophile.  He was still given awards and had pictures taken with government dignitaries.

 

In the USA, no matter how distasteful your comment is, it is not illegal to be a jerk. You have to prove actual harm was done if you want to sue somebody. When absolutely nobody believes the comments, and even Musk apologizes and retracts it so nobody has an incentive to believe it, there simply is no actual damage. We can all agree that Elon is a first class A-hole, but you can't sue somebody for that. The right to be as big a jerk as you want is enshrined in the American Constitution.  Even "hate speech" is legally protected in the USA, unlike other countries. If you find this offensive, remember that many Americans find laws like Germany's anti holocaust denial law equally distasteful.  It is a matter of culture, and America was built on the absolute premise you can voice your opinion about anything and everything in whatever way you want as long as it does not cause actual harm. 

 

For as big a jerk as Elon was, there simply was no crime committed. The jury gave the only decision possible under the circumstances.

Bingo..  ????

[ttrd]

13 hours ago, Kinnock said:

There's clearly a lot of Musk fanboys out there, and some sit on Jury's.  Jury selection and manipulation is an art form in the US, so this case will have been lost before it started.

 

And perhaps some were Catholic clergy and didn't see the comment as an insult?

 

 

 

If we relate to the simple then this situation arose between two who both had a desire to contribute in their own way and if it had arisen between two peers then this never ended in court, but ended as quickly as it just occurred because there would not have been greed involved.

The court seems to have justified it because it is probably more about what has permanently contributed to a better world and not what came through words in a heated moment - not really more complicated than that with the proviso that you can focus on the total picture ...

[tgw]

disappointing news