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some road rules clarification


brianj1964

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8 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

I always say that a sure test for Alzheimer’s is driving in Thailand. As your mind must be hitting on all cylinders, if you are not in an accident or dead ... you do not have Alzheimer’s.

Agree. I view it a bit differently, driving in Thailand is helping me ward off Alzheimers.

To the OP - constant threat assessment, and operating under the assumption (a) everyone else on the roads is an idiot (b) about 50% of the idiots are trying to kill you, is the right mindset to have.

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Some things to remember when driving in Thailand.

Americans drive on the right hand side.

English drive on the left hand side.

Thais will drive on the shady side.

 

Drive as if everybody else on the road is trying to kill you. - Many of them are.

My Thai wife says "Road rules mean nothing - who should have right of way means nothing if you are dead,"

Agree to get a camera which covers front and back at the same time.

Drive defensively and do not speed.

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23 hours ago, brianj1964 said:

I tell my wife again, that in the U.K

Best piece of advice - you are not in the UK...

 

and yes, it is not uncommon here to stop and not block intersections and allow the people coming the other way to turn into a soi... 

 

Finally - slow down and don't assume. 

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51 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

driving in Thailand is helping me ward off Alzheimers.

To the OP - constant threat assessment, and operating under the assumption (a) everyone else on the roads is an idiot

so, we have 99% idiots and one alzheimer... I'm going to just stay home... 

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19 hours ago, brianj1964 said:

Thanks for the advice about the driving licence, car is going to be 50/50, 

its not an international driving licence,i dont think there is such a thing, its a permit you obtain from the Post Office to use my U.K driving licence in Thailand, its got a 12 month validity on it. We a plan to relocate to Pattaya but not until February when Her son gets released lol

The permit may be for a year, BUT the Thai government will except it for only 90 days, then you must have a Thai licence.

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22 hours ago, johng said:

The turn left at a red light  does not give you "right of way"   you should only turn if its safe to do so

I believe this comes from a similar system used in other countries - the USA??

 

It would seem logical that it means only when safe to do so and it probably is the law.  However, giving that right to Thai drivers was always going to be asking for trouble.

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On 12/7/2019 at 1:45 AM, brianj1964 said:

Example 1. I came to a crossroads controlled by traffic lights, we were going straight on and the cars opposite were indicating to turn right, The lights turn green I proceeded to drive and the first 2 cars crossed straight in front of me, at this point my wifes friend is shouting at me to stop,so I allowed a further 2 cars to cross our path, I explained to my wife that in the U.K, in this situation, we have the right of way and all 4 cars should have waited until we passed before they turned.

I would be very surprised if the law is any different in Thailand but, as others have pointed out, expect the unexpected.

 

How would you deal with this similar matter then.............

 

Waiting to turn right at a set of lights in Buriram a couple of years back.  Both the main light and the green right hand filter light changed to green so I moved off thinking the opposing traffic going straight ahead would be seeing a red light.........wrong!! I was almost cleaned up by oncoming traffic which also set off at the same time.

 

I went back a little later with the Mrs to see what was going on - I couldn't believe it. The opposing traffic were indeed shown a green light at the same time as the traffic at the other side of the lights were given a mani green and a green filter!!!

 

I think this comes from the Thai authorities trying to copy things they've seen in other countries but not fully understanding the mechanics of it.

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19 hours ago, HHTel said:

It is wrongly interpreted in the UK.  It does not mean you are giving way, quite the opposite.  It is to inform other road users that you are there! For once, Thais are correct when flashing their lights when approaching a U-turn for example.

Thai traffic laws are based on UK laws with few exceptions.  The use of traffic lights and roundabouts are the same.  Turning left against a red light can only be done if there is a sign allowing you to do so.

 

Over and above that, Thais rarely follow traffic rules or even know of them so you do need to 'anticipate' what other drivers are going to do more so than some other countries.

You also can not turn left at green traffic lights or drive to the turn unless there is a green arrow.

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On 12/7/2019 at 9:58 AM, brianj1964 said:

I do notice they go through red lights if they are turning left, merging into traffic, sometimes it says free left turn, if I stop people blast the horn at me. Is there relevance if I have an accident and its because some numbnutz has crossed in front of me and I have the right of way? or will it always be the foreigner to blame, my wife says dont get into arguments with Thais because you never know whose carrying a gun.

If there's no sign I turn left on red if its clear, but if there's the sign (in Thai) saying no left turn on red, then I wait for green.

 

And if someone blasts their horn, under Thai law you are allowed to shoot them.

 

For the OP - my guess is he hesitated for a millisecond when the lights changed, so others turned in front of him 

 

Practice on a drag race strip to get the hang of Thai traffic lights.

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13 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

I always say that a sure test for Alzheimer’s is driving in Thailand. As your mind must be hitting on all cylinders, if you are not in an accident or dead ... you do not have Alzheimer’s.

Sorry i forgot what i was going to say.

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4 hours ago, chrissables said:

The permit may be for a year, BUT the Thai government will except it for only 90 days, then you must have a Thai licence.

I doubt that's strictly enforced. Police ask to see the passport and entry stamp? unlikely, also if someone leaves the country and comes back in i.e. a border run, it kicks off again

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22 hours ago, stevenl said:
22 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The road rules in Thailand are pretty much a duplicate of the British highway code. 

 

The British highway code states 'Always give way if it can help to avoid an accident

 

Most people don't know or follow the rules anyway.

 

- You'll not re-educate all the drivers around you. 

- There's no point being right and having an accident anyway.

- The safest measure is to adopt to the local chaos.

 

"The road rules in Thailand are pretty much a duplicate of the British highway code. "

Except UK is 'give way to the right', Thailand is (officially) 'give way to the left'.

 

Yep its a daft regulation, I reckon someone somewhere got something wrong when copying another countries (UK's ?) highway code, it then became 'locked in'...  Give way to the left is not for all roads. 

 

Give way to the left only applies at a junction where there are no designated road markings, signs or other instructions, when the vehicles arrive at the junction at the same time and when the junction consists roads of equal 'status'... in Thailand this is usually an unmarked cross roads the middle of a town. 

 

Note: a traffic island has 'stop markings' indicating that the island itself is the primary roadway and thus traffic entering the island must give way to traffic on the traffic island (circle). 

 

Quote

Title 6: Driving through Junctions or Circles

Section 71 (500B)
[If, when entering a junction, there are other vehicles, the driver must let such vehicles go through first.

If two vehicles enter a junction from different directions at the same time, the vehicle on the left side has a right of way, except when there's a designation of principle roadway in which case the vehicle on the principle roadway has a right of way.]

 

 

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13 hours ago, HHTel said:

Actually it's the opposite.  You can only turn left on red if there is a sign allowing it.  It's a blue sign with a white left arrow.  There is also a sign which is in text on a white background.  If there is no sign then legally you have to stop on red, even when turning left.

Well unless I am blind, I have never seen a sign like you describe in Pattaya. Everyone turns left at the lights here. The only place I know where you cannot is outside Tonys gym at the intersection of 3rd road where the is a white circle and a red arrow saying turn left at waiting light, which actually means no left turn at waiting light because the arrow is red. Makes sense, not.

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The second scenario is one that baffled me initially. However, when I got my first driving licence here I had to suffer the 60 minute "road safety" video and was hoping the roundabout right of way would be covered. Lo and behold, some time after half way there it was, roundabouts. It was stated that, as in the UK, you give way to your right, i.e. the vehicle on the roundabout has right of way over the vehicle joining. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to have been embraced by many drivers. I find the best method is just to watch everybody like a hawk at any intersection, traffic lights, roundabout, etc. It worked when I was a professional driver for over 20 years in England amd sure as hell works here.

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1 hour ago, jimn said:
15 hours ago, HHTel said:

Actually it's the opposite.  You can only turn left on red if there is a sign allowing it.  It's a blue sign with a white left arrow.  There is also a sign which is in text on a white background.  If there is no sign then legally you have to stop on red, even when turning left.

Well unless I am blind, I have never seen a sign like you describe in Pattaya. Everyone turns left at the lights here. The only place I know where you cannot is outside Tonys gym at the intersection of 3rd road where the is a white circle and a red arrow saying turn left at waiting light, which actually means no left turn at waiting light because the arrow is red. Makes sense, not.

 

Its a 'miss-mash'.... different provinces have different signs and follow slightly different regulations (which is one of the reasons there are so many disagreements on this forum - no single answer is ever right). 

 

In Bangkok they have the blue sign with white arrow indicating you can turn left on red (attached photo), without this sign you can't turn left on a red light. The stop sign also indicates you have to stop first and cannot 'roll' through the junction if no traffic is coming. 

 

In Pattaya, as you wrote, the junction sign (attached) indicates the opposite, that you have to wait for the light - thus it can be assumed on any junctions without this sign a left turn on a red light is legal.

 

All irrelevant anyway, people just do what they want !

 

 

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Some excellent replies here. My favorite being the one about Thai government saw how traffic lights work in other countries and wanted those in thailand like the cute green man saying walk now.  This probably applies to all laws as well. Thailand would like driving laws, just like it would like a navy with an aircraft carrier and a few submarines, oh and a big hot air balloon for the air force.

 

So as others say be aggressive , but being defensive at the same time.

 

I say yes and add strategies, my favorite is motorcycle defence, you know how those motorcycles get in your way when you are manouvering? well steer into them slowly, they will move, use the chaos your presence effects and take advantage of the gaps e.g. join traffic main road, well steer in front of motorcycles and cause them to manouver, exploit this by taking as money lane changes as you want.

 

want to make a u turn without queuning up, jump to the front and insert yourself in front of the first to hesitate.

 

remember it is not only the locals who can drive like maniacs, with a little creativity we can all do it. and remember if someone crashes into one of those motorcycles you are causing to manouver they will be in trouble not you.

also remember if you can drive away from any accident do, if the police come a calling just say you were too afraid because the locals have a habit of swarming and attacking non Thai

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1 hour ago, jimn said:

Well unless I am blind, I have never seen a sign like you describe in Pattaya. Everyone turns left at the lights here. The only place I know where you cannot is outside Tonys gym at the intersection of 3rd road where the is a white circle and a red arrow saying turn left at waiting light, which actually means no left turn at waiting light because the arrow is red. Makes sense, not.

A couple i am aware of, the left turn from 2nd road into Klang towards beach road and left turn from Klang into 3rd road heading south

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2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

A couple i am aware of, the left turn from 2nd road into Klang towards beach road and left turn from Klang into 3rd road heading south

 

Different looking signs which say the same thing 'wait for the light to turn left'  (I'm assuming they mean the green light !!)

 

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(My) Thai road rules.

 

1. Every other road user wants to have an accident. Drive assuming that is so. Motorbike riders in particular have a death wish.

2. Drive in kilometres per hour what you would in miles per hour back in the UK. This gives you enough time to avoid rule one - most of the time.

3. No Thai anticipates what will happen on the road more than 10 metres in front of them. Try to achieve 100 metres yourself.

4. The bigger the vehicle, the less likely it is to give way to you.

5. Use of indicator lights is optional - preferably assume use of the wrong one.

6. Hard shoulders on dual carriageways are for riders going the wrong way. You still need to look left and right before pulling out.

7. Get an amulet.

 

So far, driving for 9 years and never hit anyone - but have been hit 3 times while stationary in traffic! (only small bumps)

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10 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Yep its a daft regulation, I reckon someone somewhere got something wrong when copying another countries (UK's ?) highway code, it then became 'locked in'...  Give way to the left is not for all roads. 

 

Give way to the left only applies at a junction where there are no designated road markings, signs or other instructions, when the vehicles arrive at the junction at the same time and when the junction consists roads of equal 'status'... in Thailand this is usually an unmarked cross roads the middle of a town. 

 

Note: a traffic island has 'stop markings' indicating that the island itself is the primary roadway and thus traffic entering the island must give way to traffic on the traffic island (circle). 

 

 

 

I think it is logical to give way to the left, but then again I come from mainland Europe where we drive on the other side, and therefor give way to the right.

 

So IMO the UK system is not logical.

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Think about it.  If giving way to the right, you are allowing traffic in the lane closest to you to proceed.  Giving way to the left is allowing traffic on the lane furthest away from you to proceed.  (ignoring the traffic passing you at close range..... come on!)

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On 12/7/2019 at 7:00 AM, johng said:

Yes you are correct about that..  on second thoughts though ( in the UK)

flashing lights at oncoming vehicle is ( wrongly) used as "I'm giving way to you"

Its not 'wrongly' at all. Its what we do in the UK. You can't actually say its wrong as its not a legal thing - its a custom. As far as I know 110 in the hghway code is not a legal requirement - legal items in the Highway Code are marked 'must' or 'must not'.  When people drive in another country they should not assume that laws/customs are the same.  I drive in both countries and know the different meanings of flashing headlights.

 

In some countries flashing your headlights mean 'I want to pass you' hence the switchgear on some vehicles is marked 'Pass'.

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2 hours ago, HHTel said:

Think about it.  If giving way to the right, you are allowing traffic in the lane closest to you to proceed.  Giving way to the left is allowing traffic on the lane furthest away from you to proceed.  (ignoring the traffic passing you at close range..... come on!)

His opinion I believe, comes from his driving on the opposite side of the road (mainland Europe).

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On of the craziest (of many) things you see on the infrastructure of Thai roads is the famous flashing traffic lights.

 

For those who've never come across them - some traffic lights are changed at what is deemd to be less busy times of the day. Traffic flowing opposingly on one carriageway will see flashing amber whilst those flowing on the other carriageway will see flashing red.

 

As far as I know, what this actually means is - in the case of flashing amber, you have priority but you must still take care and look out for crossing traffic. Whilst flashing red means you can only go if there is no crossing traffic - you are subservient.  On the face of it, it seems like a good way of dealing with quiet traffic lights late at night etc. However, when dealing with the some of the most selfish drivers in the world, its a crazy idea - they just do what they want. I have asked several Thai friends what their interpretation of the rules at such lights is and I'm yet to come across a single one who knows.

 

It also seems that some (if not all) of the junctions where these flashing lights are employed, the change is made manually by the police. That must be the case with some of the lights near my home as they are often left flashing during busy periods - perhaps the officer responsible for switching them went on holiday or had a hangover ????.

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7 hours ago, stevenl said:

I think it is logical to give way to the left, but then again I come from mainland Europe where we drive on the other side, and therefor give way to the right.

 

So IMO the UK system is not logical.

In Europe you drive on the right and give way to the right? ok, UK drive on the left give way to the right (on a roundabout). Why there is a difference I don't know, the important thing is people stick to the rules, unlike what happens in Thailand

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On 12/7/2019 at 3:12 PM, brianj1964 said:

I have only just arrived on my retirement O-A and wanted to retire at 55 not die at 55, I havent got a Thai licence, I have one of those International permits from the post office in the U.K, valid for 12 months, as they drive on the same side of the road it felt natural to drive here, but I now understand when people criticise Thai driving, they just dont seem to understand the phrase give-way.

I did have a 750ml bottle of Singha chilled and ready to go.

I wonder how many times you visited LOS  before deciding to retire there? Any that have been in LOS long enough know the roads are killers and the only way to survive is to drive defensively. Assume every one else on the roads is out to kill you and act accordingly.

Every time I drove on Thai roads I never assumed that I'd be returning alive and unmaimed. However, I was more scared of killing a Thai kid in a rural area that rode his m'bike in front of me without looking and getting beaten to death by the villagers.

For that reason I never drove in the rural areas without my wife in the car.

 

On 12/7/2019 at 2:45 PM, brianj1964 said:

I explained to my wife that in the U.K, in this situation, we have the right of way and all 4 cars should have waited until we passed before they turned.

5555555555555555555555555555

You ain't driving in the UK. Forget everything you learned in the UK and drive like the Thais, or don't drive. Perhaps you should let your wife drive. 

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