Permanent Residency By Investment

[AlexRich]

32 minutes ago, wasabi said:

 

If you get a 20 year visa that's 1,000,000 THB for 20 years which breaks down to 50,000 THB a year. It's a big upfront commitment but on a yearly basis it's a reasonable cost IMO.

 

It's pretty small in the scheme of things, and the remaining 9,000,000 Baht may be successfully invested elsewhere ... where it's not subject to withholding tax, income tax and capital gains tax ... so might actually work out better?

 

I don't think there is an obvious right or wrong answer to this question.

 

 

 

 

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, wasabi said:

 

If you get a 20 year visa that's 1,000,000 THB for 20 years which breaks down to 50,000 THB a year. It's a big upfront commitment but on a yearly basis it's a reasonable cost IMO.

Calculate in opportunity cost of say 5% and you're easily back at 100k cost per year.

 

Oh and on the Elite Visa you are not even allowed to work because it's counted as a tourist visa. So if you want to perform work you need to get another kind of visa again.

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

A good reason not to want it ... lol.

 

Thank you to the people who answered my query. Next question:

 

For PR rules what constitutes and investment? Does it have to be an established business or would shares in listed companies on the Thai stock market count? And if the answer to the latter question is "yes", then can you buy and sell as long as you maintain 10,000,000 in investible funds. And finally how easy is it to move funds out of Thailand?

 

I'd be interested to hear from someone actually doing this.

 

 

 

 

You want PR but not Citizenship, strange.

 

[garyk]

On 12/6/2019 at 9:37 PM, Lacrimas said:

Really? I have made over 5 million thanks to AOT and CPN (stocks) in the past 10 years. I think Thailand has been very generous to me so far. Being such a bigot won't do you any favor in Thailand. 

I am not saying you did not make 5 million baht, but I looked into the 5 year growth on AOT and CPN.

5 years ago was the start of the run of AOT ( how convenient ) Now it is starting to feel the pain of the slow down. CPN is in the same boat. 

And the nonsense you said about the US stock market? Thailand and the world is tied to the US market period! 

 

The US market is littered with stocks like AOT and CPN that are still on a upward trajectory. 

Give me a break!

 

[Don Mega]

On 12/7/2019 at 10:37 AM, Lacrimas said:

Really? I have made over 5 million thanks to AOT and CPN (stocks) in the past 10 years. I think Thailand has been very generous to me so far. Being such a bigot won't do you any favor in Thailand. 

41k a month....Think I'll keep my job as I could not live on that paltry amount.

[Sheryl]

On 12/7/2019 at 12:17 PM, eisfeld said:

Elite vs Investment:

 

With one you get a very limited amount of time and your payment of 100k THB per year is down the drain.

With the other you get permanent / unlimited time and if you are not totally dumb you can get more than 100k THB profit out of it and then can use your funds after a few years.

 

Retirement: rules and requirements change and of course you have to be over 50 which many are not.

Also possible rules for Elite will change.

 

With anything other than PR all you have is year by year permission to stay with no guarantee of the next one and crrtainly no guarantee the requirements for the next one will be the same as in the past. As many of us have painfully learned.

 

I see a lot of advantage to PR if (1) one qualifues and (2) one is lucky enough to get it. Note that (1) while necessary does not guarantee (2).

 

I would really like to know how many people apply for PR on investment each year and out of those how many get it.

[garyk]

12 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Also possible rules for Elite will change.

 

With anything other than PR all you have is year by year permission to stay with no guarantee of the next one and crrtainly no guarantee the requirements for the next one will be the same as in the past. As many of us have painfully learned.

 

I see a lot of advantage to PT if (1) one qualifues and (2) one is lucky enough to get it. Note that (1) whilr necessary does not guarantee (2).

 

I would really like to know how many people apply for R on investment each year and out of those how many get it.

Me too!  IMHO if you are on TV asking the OP question. You don't know what you are doing. And you ain't going to have the money for long.  haha

Edited December 8, 2019 by garyk

[thedemon]

On 12/7/2019 at 11:09 AM, Sheryl said:

 

I don't think that is correct.

 

As I read it you do not need to be employed at all (why would you?). You need to be here on a non-Imm visa for at least 3 consecutive years and invest at least 10 million baht in one of specified types of investment.

 

If you have been working here then you have to show records proving you paid tax but if you were for example retired here I do not think that disqualifies you.

 

What I have absolutely no idea of, is likelihood of receiving PR in that category. I know that there are quotas each year and that other categories are very difficult i.e. it is not just a matter of meeting the qualifications.

 

I would be interested in knowing this, if anyone does. Not something I can afford to do now but possibly in future especially if baht devalues. And with the recent changes in Imm rules PR does seem like an attractive route.

 

 

 

OK it was quite a long time ago that I applied but I am only repeating what I was told by the most senior officer in the PR section of (then) Suan Phlu and my immigration lawyer.

 

In the preceding year I had made a direct investment in a long term project that was several times the minimum amount required. Because of that, I assumed that the investment category would be the best route for me. However they were both adamant that I should apply under either employment or family because I was eligible to apply under both of those and that if I insisted on applying under investment, they would accept my application but that a) I would still need to meet all the same criteria as under employment (tax, work permit etc,) and b) I should expect the Interior Ministry and other ministries on the panel that considers PR applications to put my investment vehicle under intense scrutiny i.e. profitability, corporate tax payments, employment created etc. and if that did not satisfy them, my application would be rejected. Neither immigration nor the panel are under any obligation to state their reasons for rejection.

 

The officer told me that I might as well apply under family because the fee is half and she told me straight that I would definitely qualify. I might add that the lawyer I had hired, though a bit of a bandit, was on a success-only fee basis. In the end I did what they recommended and the rest was easy so it is difficult for me to see any reason what interest either of them would have had in telling me what they did if it wasn't true.

 

In all the years prior to and since applying for PR, I have heard third hand of foreign monks getting PR without a work permit and I know directly of spouses and children receiving PR on the back of a principal applicant. But apart from those, I don't recall a single case of anyone getting PR without being legally employed by a Thai company and paying personal income tax. That is only my experience so doesn't count for much but if it was possible to have a PR application accepted without employment, don't you think there would be at least a passing reference to it on this forum?

 

[Momofarang]

On 12/7/2019 at 10:47 AM, Lacrimas said:

Safe heaven, where? In the mighty USA? Waiting for the next 2008 with people jumping from Wall Street windows. Nowhere is safe, mate, but Thailand is much better than many other 'civilized' countries.

Fair enough mate, we'll let you wait for the next 1997...

[Momofarang]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Also possible rules for Elite will change.

 

With anything other than PR all you have is year by year permission to stay with no guarantee of the next one and crrtainly no guarantee the requirements for the next one will be the same as in the past. As many of us have painfully learned.

 

I see a lot of advantage to PR if (1) one qualifues and (2) one is lucky enough to get it. Note that (1) while necessary does not guarantee (2).

 

I would really like to know how many people apply for PR on investment each year and out of those how many get it.

Sheryl, why do you think that PR is so much safer? Even if we got it we would remain white skinned foreigners and  as such....

The other thing is that for many of us over 65, the time and  aggravation to get it wouldn't be worth it as we could well be dead be the time PR is finally granted to us.

[Sheryl]

PR is a permanent status. Unlike extensions of stay which are just a year at a time, each one an altogether new application as far as Imm is concerned.

 

I don't think it takes quite as long as you seem to think but there are quotas so success is by no means guaranteed just because you meet the requirements.

[AlexRich]

20 hours ago, Neeranam said:

You want PR but not Citizenship, strange.

 

I’m no the sure that I do actually? You might do better with an Elite Visa and redirect the remaining 9,000,000 Baht to another market?

[Neeranam]

13 hours ago, AlexRich said:

I’m no the sure that I do actually? You might do better with an Elite Visa and redirect the remaining 9,000,000 Baht to another market?

I don't want or need an elite  Visa.

 

I also heard that they stopped the investment route for PR quite a few years ago.

[LivinLOS]

On 12/7/2019 at 4:59 AM, AlexRich said:

Why not just go for Elite Visa and invest the rest in something relatively solid? Or, if you are old enough, park 800,000 Baht in a bank and go for the retirement option?

 

Trying to work out what the advantage of PR via investment is? 

Not being at the whims of next years rule changes. Being able to slide into senility or incapacity in old age safe from annual immigration hassle. 

 

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

 

 

I also heard that they stopped the investment route for PR quite a few years ago.

 

Where did you hear that? As far as I  now still available

[samran]

My understanding is they are going to want to see 3 years of non-immigrant extensions and WPs even under the investment category.

 

But the OP has 2 weeks to trot down to Chaengwattana and prove us all wrong.

[AlexRich]

35 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Not being at the whims of next years rule changes. Being able to slide into senility or incapacity in old age safe from annual immigration hassle. 

 

 

The problem with that idea is that all rules can change, even PR? So as a foreigner I don't think anyone can be uber confident about their position in Thailand. 

 

To be on the safe side you really need a substantial wealth so that you can move on if the goalposts change on PR.

 

 

 

 

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

The problem with that idea is that all rules can change, even PR? So as a foreigner I don't think anyone can be uber confident about their position in Thailand. 

 

To be on the safe side you really need a substantial wealth so that you can move on if the goalposts change on PR.

The chances of permanent residency getting revoked are quite slim. The chances of rules changing regarding visas are quite high. Of course nothing is guaranteed forever. Citizenship would give even more guarantees and freedoms.

 

Your last sentence is very true though. I'd add the word "diversified" in front of "wealth", both in terms of asset classes as well as geolocation.

[Lacrimas]

On 12/8/2019 at 7:49 AM, garyk said:

I am not saying you did not make 5 million baht, but I looked into the 5 year growth on AOT and CPN.

5 years ago was the start of the run of AOT ( how convenient ) Now it is starting to feel the pain of the slow down. CPN is in the same boat. 

And the nonsense you said about the US stock market? Thailand and the world is tied to the US market period! 

 

The US market is littered with stocks like AOT and CPN that are still on a upward trajectory. 

Give me a break!

 

You are right some stocks in the US are also very profitable. What I meant is that we shouldn't believe the Thai stock market sucks because Thailand is a third world country. Thailand is pretty much as safe as the US financially speaking.

[kingofthemountain]

On 12/7/2019 at 4:12 PM, Neeranam said:

With PR, you can get citizenship.

Who in his right mind would like to have citizenship from a third world country

run by a military junta when you are already a citizen from an advanced democratic country?

Sorry but i don't get it

[kingofthemountain]

On 12/7/2019 at 10:47 AM, Lacrimas said:

Safe heaven, where? In the mighty USA? Waiting for the next 2008 with people jumping from Wall Street windows. Nowhere is safe, mate, but Thailand is much better than many other 'civilized' countries.

I recommand you to try Switzerland

probably one of the safest place in the world for your money.

[Lacrimas]

10 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Who in his right mind would like to have citizenship from a third world country

run by a military junta when you are already a citizen from an advanced democratic country?

Sorry but i don't get it

Maybe because you want to stay forever in Thailand? Also, if you get Thai citizenship you don't need to give up your own.

[Lacrimas]

10 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

I recommand you to try Switzerland

probably one of the safest place in the world for your money.

On that I agree, Switzerland is the safest and best organized country in the world. Number 1 in my opinion.

[wasabi]

19 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Who in his right mind would like to have citizenship from a third world country

run by a military junta when you are already a citizen from an advanced democratic country?

Sorry but i don't get it

Firstly I no longer consider Third world, but a Democratic republic? Probably not. Your statement begs the bigger question of why in spite of the hassles of being foreign in Thailand and instability of the government trickling down to our own instability in staying here, do people want to spend large sums of money and time to live here? For me the low cost of living even with the current disadvantageous exchange rates is the #1 reason. I also like the food, language and Thai people I interact with. I like the proximity to many other places I like to visit in the region and infrastructure in place to get me there. The government doesn't effect me in anyway that diminishes my enjoyment. My wife and I will be getting Elite visas next month. I realize there is no guarantees they will last as long as I hope to stay in Thailand but I think that's a small risk and one I'm willing to take. Many of the best opportunities in life are NOT risk free.

 

My main grievance is air pollution. I would really like to see air pollution improve in Thailand. Not sure what it will take to achieve that.

[Lacrimas]

3 minutes ago, wasabi said:

Firstly I no longer consider Third world, but a Democratic republic? Probably not. Your statement begs the bigger question of why in spite of the hassles of being foreign in Thailand and instability of the government trickling down to our own instability in staying here, do people want to spend large sums of money and time to live here? For me the low cost of living even with the current disadvantageous exchange rates is the #1 reason. I also like the food, language and Thai people I interact with. I like the proximity to many other places I like to visit in the region and infrastructure in place to get me there. The government doesn't effect me in anyway that diminishes my enjoyment. My wife and I will be getting Elite visas next month. I realize there is no guarantees they will last as long as I hope to stay in Thailand but I think that's a small risk and one I'm willing to take. Many of the best opportunities in life are NOT risk free.

 

My main grievance is air pollution. I would really like to see air pollution improve in Thailand. Not sure what it will take to achieve that.

Some places in Thailand have very low air pollution levels, Phuket for example.

[kingofthemountain]

43 minutes ago, Lacrimas said:

Maybe because you want to stay forever in Thailand?

i understand that you want stay forever in Thailand

but i am not sure at all Thailand wants the same on the long term

(I don't talk about your particular case of course, but more looking at the general policies)

[Momofarang]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Where did you hear that? As far as I  now still available

There are various routes to PR, officially they are open. But closed in a very Thai fashion as they all require 3 years of continuous work permit(s?) with matching income tax records.

[samran]

34 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

i understand that you want stay forever in Thailand

but i am not sure at all Thailand wants the same on the long term

(I don't talk about your particular case of course, but more looking at the general policies)

What makes you think that? Citizenship applications are open year round, processed in a fairly predictable manner and the rules are so that it isn’t overly hard to qualify for anyone who works here. 

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, samran said:

What makes you think that? Citizenship applications are open year round, processed in a fairly predictable manner and the rules are so that it isn’t overly hard to qualify for anyone who works here. 

Yes for sure

it is so open that there is a very tiny part of the expats who meet the criteria

i mean the numbers are ridiculous compared to others coutries.

There must be a reason for this. Nationalism? Paranoia? Other? 

[eisfeld]

41 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Yes for sure

it is so open that there is a very tiny part of the expats who meet the criteria

i mean the numbers are ridiculous compared to others coutries.

There must be a reason for this. Nationalism? Paranoia? Other? 

Which requirement do you find overly difficult to meet? A lot of countries have similar requirements.