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45 minutes ago, billsmart said:

My last extension was based on Retirement. I have plenty of money in the bank. I went down last week to get another one-year extension based on Marriage to avoid the health insurance requirement, but was told I need health insurance for any extension, Retirement or Marriage or Family, based on a O-A visa. As a result, I'm on my way to Vientiane next week to get an O based on Marriage.

I know different Immigration Offices seem to interpret these new rules differently, but that's what I was told in mine

It cannot be a matter of interpretation. There has been no change of clause 2.18 of the police order for extensions based upon marriage. Only clause 2.22 for retirement was changed showing insurance for OA visa and entries from it issued after October 31st.

Just an office making a excuse for not wanting to let you do the change to marriage.

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6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It cannot be a matter of interpretation. There has been no change of clause 2.18 of the police order for extensions based upon marriage. Only clause 2.22 for retirement was changed showing insurance for OA visa and entries from it issued after October 31st.

Just an office making a excuse for not wanting to let you do the change to marriage.

It seems Billsmart is indicating that he attempted to renew a Marriage extension of stay that was granted based upon an OA VISA. I have never heard of that. I am only aware of extensions of stay based upon marriage that were granted within the Non-immigrant O category. It is my understanding that any extensions of stay based upon an OA or OX for that matter VISA will require insurance. 

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1 hour ago, Tounge Thaied said:

The insurance requirement is based upon your VISA. The marriage and retirement extensions of stay are not VISA's strictly speaking. So... in your case, you are extending your stay based upon the OA VISA which will require health insurance. When an individual goes to renew a Non-Immigrant O extension based upon Retirement or Marriage, that extension of stay is usually based upon a 90 day VISA that was granted during the first application. 

Not so sure that the health-insurance requirement is applicable for ALL extensions of stay based on an OA Visa.

I hate to throw in the dreaded and confusing PoliceOrder (see attached) but on page 8 of that document they make it in my opinion crystal-clear that the health-insurance requirement is ONLY for an extension of an OA Visa based on retirement.

* On the left-hand side of page 8 it refers to clause 2.22 > In case of retirement...

* On the right-hand side of page 8 they have taken over the requirements (criteria for consideration) for an extension based on an OA Visa for reason of retirement, and simply added # (6) which addresses the new health-insurance requirement.

When the local IO (in this case Phetchabun) tells it different, IMO we could - and actually should - challenge this with the text of the PoliceOrder, and/or contact the IO Helpline to clarify things.

1511398266_InsuranceO-AVisaNewPoliceOrder.pdf

Edited by Peter Denis
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1 minute ago, Peter Denis said:

Not so sure that the health-insurance requirement is applicabel for ALL extensions of stay based on an OA Visa.

I hate to throw in the dreaded and confusing PoliceOrder (see attached) but on page 8 of that document they make it in my opinion crystal-clear that the health-insurance requirement is ONLY for an extension of an OA Visa based on retirement.

* On the left-hand side of page 8 it refers to clause 2.22 > In case of retirement...

* On the right-hand side of page 8 they have taken over the requirements (criteria for consideration) for an extension based on an OA Visa for reason of retirement, and simply added # (6) which addresses the new health-insurance requirement.

When the local IO (in this case Phetchabun) tells it different, IMO we could - and actually should - challenge this with the text of the PoliceOrder, and/or contact the IO Helpline to clarify things.

1511398266_InsuranceO-AVisaNewPoliceOrder.pdf 1.87 MB · 0 downloads

Great point. OA VISA based on "retirement" only. 

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10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

As I wrote there was no change made the clause of the police order stating insurance was needed for a extension based upon marriage.

It does not matter what type of non immigrant visa that was used to get the original permit to stay that is being extended.

Got it. And with Peter Denis' post just after your's it is perfectly clear now. The police order clearly indicates only "retirement" extensions of stay based upon the OA VISA require health insurance. And I completely agree with Peter... bring the police order with you to your next renewal and politely inform if anyone has any trouble with this. 

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1 hour ago, billsmart said:

I came into Thailand 11 years ago on an O-A visa and have used both Retirement and Marriage at various times to get my one-year extension. My last extension was based on Retirement. I have plenty of money in the bank. I went down last week to get another one-year extension based on Marriage to avoid the health insurance requirement, but was told I need health insurance for any extension, Retirement or Marriage or Family, based on a O-A visa. As a result, I'm on my way to Vientiane next week to get an O based on Marriage.

I know different Immigration Offices seem to interpret these new rules differently, but that's what I was told in mine (Phetchabun.)

Bill,

IMO it would be far more convenient for you to go back to your Phetchabun IO with your already prepared application and a print-out of the PoliceOrder.  And then request talking to a senior officer making your case that the new health-insurance requirement is NOT required for an extension of stay based on an OA Visa for reason of MARRIAGE.

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It is obvious that a large number of old foreigners have problems because they  are staying in Thailand based on the extension of an OA visa.  One of my friends is 80 years old and staying here since many years based on OA but now he was refused an extension because he did not have a health insurance....He was told that he could go to Thai Embassy Phnom Penh to get a long term "tourist visa" whereby he would need to leave the Kingdom every 90 days....but I am afraid also this kind of visa will require a health insurance???

Does somebody know which kind of insurance company would give him cover ?

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55 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

It is obvious that a large number of old foreigners have problems because they  are staying in Thailand based on the extension of an OA visa.  One of my friends is 80 years old and staying here since many years based on OA but now he was refused an extension because he did not have a health insurance....He was told that he could go to Thai Embassy Phnom Penh to get a long term "tourist visa" whereby he would need to leave the Kingdom every 90 days....but I am afraid also this kind of visa will require a health insurance???

Does somebody know which kind of insurance company would give him cover ?

no long term tourist visa, only single entry, or multi entry, which is good for 6 months and gives a 60 day permission to stay stamp on each entry, not sure if they are available in Phnom Penh

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1 hour ago, fvw53 said:

... One of my friends is 80 years old and staying here since many years based on OA but now he was refused an extension because he did not have a health insurance....He was told that he could go to Thai Embassy Phnom Penh to get a long term "tourist visa" whereby he would need to leave the Kingdom every 90 days....but I am afraid also this kind of visa will require a health insurance???

Does somebody know which kind of insurance company would give him cover ?

Is your friend married? If so, he just needs to apply (with the required paperwork of course) at his next extension for reason of MARRIAGE instead of RETIREMENT.  The lower financial requirements for that are a nice bonus too.

If he is not married, he can take a nice holiday trip abroad and return Visa-exempt (make sure that if he has a Re-entry permit to have it cancelled at his local IO before leaving).  Then apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa - retirement at his local IO.  And in the last month of that Non Imm O Visa, he can apply for a 1 year extension of stay based on that Non Imm O - retirement Visa.

From then on he is in exactly the same situation as he is now, only difference being that when on Non Imm O there is NO health-insurance requirement. 

I agree that he conversion process is a nuisance and waste of time/effort, but there is no way around it.

Note: Forget the other advice you mentioned in your post re Pnom Penh / tourist Visa / 90 day trips > as it is not correct and totally confused.

Edited by Peter Denis
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2 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Is your friend married? If so, he just needs to apply (with the required paperwork of course) at his next extension for reason of MARRIAGE instead of RETIREMENT.  The lower financial requirements for that are a nice bonus too.

If he is not married, he can take a nice holiday trip abroad and return Visa-exempt (make sure that if he has a Re-entry permit to have it cancelled at his local IO before leaving).  Then apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa - retirement at his local IO.  And in the last month of that Non Imm O Visa, he can apply for a 1 year extension of stay based on that Non Imm O - retirement Visa.

From then on he is in exactly the same situation as he is now, only difference being that when on Non Imm O there is NO health-insurance requirement. 

I agree that he conversion process is a nuisance and waste of time/effort, but there is no way around it.

Note: Forget the other advice re Pnom Penh / tourist Visa / 90 day trips > as it is not correct and totally confused.

Thanks / this seems to be surprisingly easy way to solve my friends problem (he is not married).

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18 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

Thanks / this seems to be surprisingly easy way to solve my friends problem (he is not married).

Yes it is.

He could also exit Thailand and apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa at a thai embassy/consulate in his home-country or a neighboring country (e.g. Laos or Malaysia).  But obviously it is easier to just exit Thailand and re-enter again on Visa-exempt (easiest) or on a Tourist Visa.  And then apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement at his local IO, and in the last month of that 90-day Non Imm O Visa apply for the extension of stay.  No need for health-insurance when being on an extension of a Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.

Note: Leaving Thailand is necessary in order to kill his present permission to stay based on the OA Visa.  And as you have to exit and re-enter to start the new application process, why not make it a nice holiday-trip abroad?

Edited by Peter Denis
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Good luck on you application. I would not go to Bangkok, They will make you buy Health insurance.  You need to have in the bank $400.000 in Bank for 3 months as I am told to do so in my case before going to immigration office. Not sure about income requirements?

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Phetchabun IO appear to be operating on a different agenda. I have used the office since it opened. Previously Phitsanlok, Nan {once} and Suan Plu. 

Next year myself and another friend cannot use the combo income method for retirement. Despite showing them the latest Police order, its still a flat NO. We are both switching to marriage extensions. 

When the TM30 stuff started they were fining everyone. One chap I know who has lived here 14 years, never left Thailand was stiffed 2K Baht. 

In September I did TM30 after a UK trip and was told not necessary to do if going out of province. 

On Friday I heard from two chaps that if travelling out of Phetchabun must go to IO and report back. 

They will put that TM30 app on the phone for you and generally they are quite efficient. 

I know Bill personally and we were all surprised about his extension rejection and forthcoming trip to Laos. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sergeant said:

Good luck on you application. I would not go to Bangkok, They will make you buy Health insurance.  You need to have in the bank $400.000 in Bank for 3 months as I am told to do so in my case before going to immigration office. Not sure about income requirements?

400,000 in the bank for 2 months.

Or proof of 40,000 Baht monthly income.

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On 12/7/2019 at 2:37 AM, ubonjoe said:

No need to apply early. You get a under consideration stamp that allows you to stay until it is approved.

But can you leave and re-enter Thailand during that period in which your application is "under consideration"?

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5 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Bill,

IMO it would be far more convenient for you to go back to your Phetchabun IO with your already prepared application and a print-out of the PoliceOrder.  And then request talking to a senior officer making your case that the new health-insurance requirement is NOT required for an extension of stay based on an OA Visa for reason of MARRIAGE.

Peter, Thanks for the suggestion, but it was the officer in charge of the office that told me that. I did question it, but did not try to argue with them about it. I'll just go get an O visa to comply with their understanding of the rules and be done with it -- I hope.

 

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1 minute ago, suzannegoh said:

But can you leave and re-enter Thailand during that period in which your application is "under consideration"?

.You can if you get a re-entry permit that will be valid to the report back date on the under consideration stamp.

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22 hours ago, lelapin said:

 

Is this the one

 

 

image.thumb.png.d6b5eb8792cf3b10f3576b278d7fbbbf.png

Hi I was looking over my last 2 years of IMO entry visa stamps, except for this one in the photo all previous ones are maked Non-O, and my visa status has been Non-O for years before this entry with no visa status changes along the way.  

 

Can anyone help by identifying the hyroglifics after the NoN -  it should be NoN - O like on my previous stamps but it's not. 

 

And it's my last entry date into Thailand.....I do know it's common for IMO to make mistakes at port of entries 5555;  just hoping this is not one with a potential serious outcome. 

 

I thought maybe Thai characters but I cannot identify it.  Thanks in advance, 

Thai Non - O-Stamp.png

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7 minutes ago, berrec said:

Can anyone help by identifying the hyroglifics after the NoN -  it should be NoN - O like on my previous stamps but it's not. 

 

It means non immigrant Re Entry. That is what they put when you enter using a re-entry permit.

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14 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Peter, Thanks for the suggestion, but it was the officer in charge of the office that told me that. I did question it, but did not try to argue with them about it. I'll just go get an O visa to comply with their understanding of the rules and be done with it -- I hope.

Hi Bill, this is outrageous but if it is the officer in charge of the office that told you so, I guess there is not much else you can do than comply (even though they are blatantly wrong).

I presume you aware that there are also other options that applying in Vientiane for an Imm O Visa for reason of marriage.  E.g. you could just make a nice holiday trip abroad and return Visa exempt.  And then apply for a 90-day Non Imm O - marriage Visa at your local Phetchabun office.  And when that one is in its last month apply for an extension of stay of that Non Imm O - marriage.

Note: But might be wise to check beforehand with them if they would allow you to apply for a 90-day Non Imm O - marriage from your Visa-exempt.  If they are rogue on the present issue, God knows what else they can dream up to give applicants a hard time.

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13 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi Bill, this is outrageous but if it is the officer in charge of the office that told you so, I guess there is not much else you can do than comply (even though they are blatantly wrong).

I presume you aware that there are also other options that applying in Vientiane for an Imm O Visa for reason of marriage.  E.g. you could just make a nice holiday trip abroad and return Visa exempt.  And then apply for a 90-day Non Imm O - marriage Visa at your local Phetchabun office.  And when that one is in its last month apply for an extension of stay of that Non Imm O - marriage.

Note: But might be wise to check beforehand with them if they would allow you to apply for a 90-day Non Imm O - marriage from your Visa-exempt.  If they are rogue on the present issue, God knows what else they can dream up to give applicants a hard time.

Peter, Again, thanks for your excellent suggestions. 

It just so happens that my wife has a grandchild in Udonthani and visits her occasionally, so we can drive up to Udonthani on Tuesday, and then she can take me to the Nong Khai/Laos border on Wednesday, and I can go on to Vientiane from there. She can then just pick me up at the border when I return on Friday. That way, the trip to Vientiane can serve two purposes.

Be well...Bill!

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20 hours ago, fvw53 said:

but I am afraid also this kind of visa will require a health insurance???

The only Visas requiring Health Insurance are O-A and O-X. The only Extension is a retirement extension based on an original O-A permit to stay. 

No promises for the future, but don't fear what is not the case. 

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11 minutes ago, cnxgary said:

Ubon Joe what is your opinion can a person with a OA-retirement visa who has been doing extensions based on retirement change the extension to one based on marriage and NOT have to have insurance?

See my posts starting here.

 

21 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It cannot be a matter of interpretation. There has been no change of clause 2.18 of the police order for extensions based upon marriage. Only clause 2.22 for retirement was changed showing insurance for OA visa and entries from it issued after October 31st.

Just an office making a excuse for not wanting to let you do the change to marriage.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, billsmart said:

Peter, Again, thanks for your excellent suggestions. 
It just so happens that my wife has a grandchild in Udonthani and visits her occasionally, so we can drive up to Udonthani on Tuesday, and then she can take me to the Nong Khai/Laos border on Wednesday, and I can go on to Vientiane from there. She can then just pick me up at the border when I return on Friday. That way, the trip to Vientiane can serve two purposes.

HI Bill,

Good to hear that at least you can somewhat combine the trip to Vientiane with a personal visit.

But still I find it outrageous that your local IO forces you to make a trip of almost 800 km (and the cost of the Lao Visa and staying overnight there to pick up your Visa), because of their blatantly incorrect interpretation of the rules.

Note: If for one reason or another your Non Imm O - marriage Visa application is refused in Vientiane, just return Visa exempt and do the application at your local IO.

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On 12/7/2019 at 2:37 PM, ubonjoe said:

No need to apply early. You get a under consideration stamp that allows you to stay until it is approved.

I believe that you can leave and re-enter Thailand (with re-entry permit) while the application is under consideration.

What would happen if you could not return until after the extension was granted. Is the extension valid or cancelled.

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22 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

I believe that you can leave and re-enter Thailand (with re-entry permit) while the application is under consideration.

What would happen if you could not return until after the extension was granted. Is the extension valid or cancelled.

If you entered after the report back date on the under consideration stamp you would lose your extension application and would have to apply again after getting a new non-o visa.

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