Elon Musk could face defamation retrial as Brit diver's lawyer claims jury blundered

[Tofer]

8 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

Sounds like his lawyer just found another way to scam more money in lawyer fees out of poor ol' Vern.

 

I doubt very much that poor Vern will be paying any lawyer fees. I imagine it will be a no win no fee basis, hence the stupidly high damages sum claimed, and the pursuit of a new hearing.

 

That is unless Vern has more money than sense.....

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, MarcB said:

 

 

Or did Musk hit a personal snare by calling some 5 minute famer a pedo?

Are you making an accusation that a poster whom you replied to is a pedo?

[sanemax]

7 hours ago, BestB said:

Yes, because you are not implicating them directly. How readers interpret what they read is individually based on their perceptions , education and expectations .

 

one sentence can have 100 different meanings to 100 different people 

The tweet that Musk used just had the one meaning and its quite clear  what Musk was saying, and to who 

[SkyFax]

Operative word in the topic title: Could

[SkyFax]

23 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The tweet that Musk used just had the one meaning and its quite clear  what Musk was saying, and to who 

While it may have been quite clear to whom the Musk tweets were referring at the time of those tweets to someone who had been closely following the cave rescue saga in Thailand and maybe had seen the Unsworth CNN interview, it may have been not so clear at the time of those tweets to whom the tweets were referring to someone who had not.

[cmarshall]

I have never heard of a mistrial being declared because a juror misapplied the law.  I think that probably happens often.  

 

Whenever I served on a jury I always refused afterward to discuss the case with the lawyers for either side.

[torturedsole]

Check your bank balance before making a decision on a retrial, Vern.  The legal fees of the initial lawsuit will already be significant.  Your lawyers would love another pop for their own financial gain.  Lose a retrial and you really are screwed.  

 

I recall Vern stated that he'd take the original verdict 'on the chin'.  Listen to your own advice, not the lawyers.  

[Fred white]

6 hours ago, TexasFlyer said:

Fact 1: Musk is a creep. 
Fact 2: Musk is a bull<deleted>ter. 
Fact 3: Musk is full of himself.  
Fact 4: In America there’s something called “double jeopardy”. Google it. 
 

Suggestion: next time rely on an American legal team to lead in the American legal system. This isn’t Britain. 
Hint: rely on a local legal team if you’re thinking about dragging this to Thailand. 

If he made the tweets in the US then that's where the case should be tried not in Thailand or Briton and who's to say musk would come to Thailand for a trial or if a Thai court decided against him that a US court would honor the decision and force him to pay

[mrfill]

9 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

Insanely high damages claimed by Mr. Unsworth ... Why not just 1 million or so ?

If my reputation would be worth 190 millions , I would have lost it a long time ago , not care about anyway .

These punitive damages are affected by the wealth of the defendant. In this case it represents less than 1% (0.73%) and based on a worth of 5m the figure would be 36500. Is your reputation only worth 0.73% of your wealth?

[HHTel]

23 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

I have never heard of a mistrial being declared because a juror misapplied the law.  I think that probably happens often.  

 

Whenever I served on a jury I always refused afterward to discuss the case with the lawyers for either side.

I don't think it's a mistrial.  Just a retrial in another country.

[thailand49]

I think at this point Vern isn't paying out a thing, it has always been PR for these lawyers and now it might have backfired?

 

People at times don't really understand the legal system I know I didn't until I had to experience it. Like here many things claim are just that opinion, they heard it etc etc.. as noted by another poster prior to the trial it goes through a process ( Prelim hearing ) there are lots of stuff that are thrown out that the jury never get to hear it narrows down the trial as to what can be heard.

 

Now it isn't straight from the source just because I say so, but my cousin husband has been working for Musk since he started Tesla, from my conversation with him he knows he did wrong could have written a check long time ago and even if he loses the case the million he spends that in a week eating ???? but giving in set him up as a target for the future since he has a big mouth the reason he is fighting they put Vern through the ringer to set a warning to others?

 

 

[canopy]

9 hours ago, Papafarang said:

The general consensus is that the mini sub was to big to get through the cave system so that was a big PR stunt by musk

 

 

Amazing there are still people who don't yet know the truth. I hate to be the one to tell you, but Elon consulted the cave experts in Thailand from day one. The experts immediately dismissed Elon's idea known as the the bouncy castle approach--a flexible tube pumped up with air and the kids would crawl all the way out on their own. The cave experts on the ground in Thailand instead encouraged Elon to develop the sub system and they gave Elon precise details of inside the cave and the requirements of the passages. Richard Stanton, one of the two British divers who found the kids, was instrumental in the design of the sub. When he talked, Elon listened and several types of subs were made. The one below was for the tightest part known as the choke point. Several subs were designed, built, tested, and delivered in mind boggling time by many experts from all walks of life and even non-Elon companies. Everyone just wanted to help save the kids in any way they could. While several sub types did arrive shortly before the kids were rescued, the rescue time window was closing and the gears of rescue were already turning. There was no turning back, no chance of a U turn to a different strategy. Quite simply, the ship had already left the harbor.

 

 

 

[Elkski]

Peehaps Elons motivations were all good no publicity.    He used the wrong word in his tweet. He could have said many words but in 2019 for a Man living in SEAsia I think pedo guy had traction. I'm sure  this case is no upfront cost  to  Vern.  Contingency!   I do think more reasonable  number  like  2 months salary or 1% net worth would have better a better  number to seek. Oh 1% is 230,000,000$  either the judge or verns lawyer suck. 

[Pancho]

Paul McCartney said one of my songs “ sucked “. This ruined my chances on “the voice”. I’m only  asking 487 million euros. Seems fair as I’m a much better musician.     Also letting my beach front house in Afghanistan go to the right buyer. 

[torturedsole]

3 hours ago, thailand49 said:

Now it isn't straight from the source just because I say so, but my cousin husband has been working for Musk since he started Tesla, from my conversation with him he knows he did wrong could have written a check long time ago and even if he loses the case the million he spends that in a week eating ???? but giving in set him up as a target for the future since he has a big mouth the reason he is fighting they put Vern through the ringer to set a warning to others?

What utter nonsense.  In fact the most nonsense post since, well, the last nonsense post I've read on TV.  

[Speedhump]

14 hours ago, z42 said:

Absolutely right. It's gone too far already. Going for such absurdly high damages payments has tarnished Unsworth's rep much more than any tweet would have.

 

Now is the time to walk away with dignity fully intact.

This is wrong. Personal claims in US courts are always stratospheric, and considering the financial worth of the defendant, perfectly in keeping with an intent to punish him. Unsworth's counsel have not misadvised him on the level of damages to ask for. And it's time for Calif. courts to make it clear law that gross slander/libel is actionable in itself, whatever the effect or lack thereof on the injured party. 

[torturedsole]

1 minute ago, Speedhump said:

And it's time for Calif. courts to make it clear law that gross slander/libel is actionable in itself, whatever the effect or lack thereof on the injured party. 

I can tell, you didn't like the verdict.  

[Dumbastheycome]

So it  seems to transpire  that the  legal  beagles  who took on Unsworths  claim on a  pro bono  basis are attempting  to recover  lost  financial interest. An irritation to  Musk, a further  humiliation to Unsworth ?

Should  have been  left alone  from the  start. IMHO.

 

[zydeco]

8 hours ago, hugh2121 said:

Unsworth should take his case to the Thai court. Jail time for Musk.

 

The Thai government and courts, of course, will just love it when Unsworth makes Thailand the center of some sort of "pedo trial." They'll just love what he does for the country's reputation. Can't imagine how popular he'll be with the authorities once the international press comes to Thailand to do background stories on pedophiles and dirty old men. 

[Scott]

A post has been reported and removed along with replies.  

[BigStar]

38 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

So it  seems to transpire  that the  legal  beagles  who took on Unsworths  claim on a  pro bono  basis are attempting  to recover  lost  financial interest. An irritation to  Musk, a further  humiliation to Unsworth ?

No, further publicity for themselves. Wouldn't surprise me if the Unsworth's lawyers knew quite well from the beginning they couldn't possibly win. And they also know there's not going to be any retrial, but they're milking the case for a little longer to keep their names in public view. For them the advantage is being linked to a case involving a billionaire celebrity like Musk.

[sanemax]

12 minutes ago, BigStar said:

No, further publicity for themselves. Wouldn't surprise me if the Unsworth's lawyers knew quite well from the beginning they couldn't possibly win. And they also know there's not going to be any retrial, but they're milking the case for a little longer to keep their names in public view. For them the advantage is being linked to a case involving a billionaire celebrity like Musk.

Great publicity for the Lawyers , sure they will get lots of other work through this case .

Clever publicity stunt from the Lawyers there  , all that free advertising .

Musk will probably hire them to represent all future opposition in his court cases ?

[MarcB]

If Musk were to sue 50% of TV commenters for defamation, he'd surely would have enough money to pay Vern that comfortable pension he's so much after...

Or should we just regard all comments made the last few months as merely opinions and social media outbursts, unworthy of a trial?

[sanemax]

19 minutes ago, MarcB said:

If Musk were to sue 50% of TV commenters for defamation, he'd surely would have enough money to pay Vern that comfortable pension he's so much after...

Or should we just regard all comments made the last few months as merely opinions and social media outbursts, unworthy of a trial?

Yes, we should do that 

[SkyFax]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

Great publicity for the Lawyers , sure they will get lots of other work through this case .

Clever publicity stunt from the Lawyers there  , all that free advertising .

Musk will probably hire them to represent all future opposition in his court cases ?

Lin Wood said in his closing statement that Mr. Musk dropped a 'nuclear bomb' on Mr. Unsworth. Given the outcome of this trial as it now stands, with a unanimous jury verdict in favor of Musk in less than one hour of deliberation, Mr. Wood may have very well dropped the bomb on himself.

[oldhippy]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

Yes, we should do that 

Why does Musk not just do whay he does best: shooting rubbish into space?

[MarcB]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

Why does Musk not just do whay he does best: shooting rubbish into space?

And why do you not do what you do best?

Nothing

 

Until you invent a proper solution for the world's garbage disposal

[Langkawee]

23 hours ago, pookiki said:

I think Mr. Mark Stephen's, Esq. better come to grip with defamation laws as they exist in the USA. One of the key issues was that Unsworth had not shown any tangible damages - on the contrary - no one paid any attention to Musk's comments and Unsworth's reputation remained unsullied.  Let it be!

Exactly, posters here think Thai law applies, thankfully not, now everyone knows he's not a pedo because of Musk's remark, if anything Vern's reputation is much better by the pedo remark, however the worst ordeal to suffer. Looks like Vern's lawyer is a snake as they usually are, he must have known there was no chance to win, did the lawyer benefit from the case. Lawyers are the biggest crooks.

[SkyFax]

Per Business Insider yesterday:

 

Elon Musk's win over Vernon Unsworth was a miscarriage of justice, according to Unsworth's lawyer

 

Unsworth's lawyer (Lin Wood) did not take the jury's ruling lying down.

 

Wood added that his team would "explore legal options"  following the verdict.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-defamation-win-miscarriage-justice-vernon-unsworth-lawyer-2019-12

[Chongalulu]

On 12/9/2019 at 6:07 AM, pookiki said:

I think Mr. Mark Stephen's, Esq. better come to grip with defamation laws as they exist in the USA. One of the key issues was that Unsworth had not shown any tangible damages - on the contrary - no one paid any attention to Musk's comments and Unsworth's reputation remained unsullied.  Let it be!

• No that wasn’t the issue at all,if only you’d read the article- it was a question of identifying Vernon. Libel is indeed a tangible damage under US (and others) law . Financial detriment does not have to be demonstrated.