I was disrespected (he said)

[Captain 776]

It all depends who does the personal interview.   That is where the decision is made.

[Russell17au]

I think part of the problem is with the misunderstanding of words because of different translations and accents. So maybe words that were used were words that are acceptable with other English speaking countries but are not the same meaning in many of the Asian countries. So maybe one simple word which is acceptable in English was used and may have been an insulting word to a Thai. I know one farang that has been trying to learn Thai and his teacher keeps telling him the word he is saying is wrong, and the Thai meaning of that word is the Thai woman's private parts. So maybe the Thai wife has mis-interpreted a word and now the husband is claiming it was disrespectful.

[bronzedude]

It seems there are people who post on TV and have nothing better to do with their lives than criticize other posters. For those who have never gone through the preparation of a tourist visa application, traveled 3 hours for an early morning interview, paid a fee which due to the current exchange rate was more than the advertised fee, and with a limited knowledge of definitions, here is one:

 

dis·re·spect

/ˌdisrəˈspekt/

noun

noun: disrespect

1.    lack of respect or courtesy.

"growing disrespect for the rule of law"

synonyms:

contempt, lack of respect, scorn, disregard, disdain, opprobrium;  derision, mockery, ridicule "there is growing disrespect for authority" discourtesy, rudeness, impoliteness, incivility, unmannerliness, lack of respect, lack of civility, ungraciousness, irreverence, lack of consideration, ill/bad manners; insolence, impudence, impertinence, cheek, flippancy, churlishness; informallip, nerve "he said it on the spur of the moment, he meant no disrespect to anybody"

antonyms:

respect, esteem

verb

INFORMAL•NORTH AMERICAN

verb: disrespect; 3rd person present: disrespects; past tense: disrespected; past participle: disrespected; gerund or present participle: disrespecting

1.    show a lack of respect for; insult.

"a young brave who disrespects his elders"

 

By the way, what was meant by "those with not-so-white skin?" Sounds a bit (deleted) to me. By the way, in my letters to my Congressmen and US Senators (which are in the mail) I amended my lead term to "injustice." Here is a copy of my letter to the editor of the Washington Post. I've also sent letters to the Baltimore Sun, The Chicago tribune, The Seattle Times, The Boston Globe, The San Diego Union-Tribune, The Los Angeles Times, The San Francisco Chronicle, and The Honolulu Star-Advertiser. These letters may or may not get recognized, but at least I don't just sit around all day doing nothing. 

 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                    December 10,2019

Washington Post

Dear Editor,

                  I am writing this letter as a US citizen and veteran living in Thailand on retirement visa.

An injustice was made in the case of my Thai wife's denial of a tourist visa at the US embassy in Bangkok. 

                  After extensive preparation, She applied for a nonimmigrant "tourist" visa at the US embassy in Bangkok. She filled out the English application, scheduled an appointment, paid the $160 application fee, and took the 2 and 1/2 hour trip to Bangkok with a 30+ page folder of supporting documents.

                  My wife appeared for the interview on November 21.  Her appointment lasted less than 5 minutes. She was asked 4 questions. "Why do you want to go to the US?","How long have you been married?" "Who is paying for the visit?""Who is going with you ?"

                  The interviewer never looked at the folder of supporting documents. She was given a paper slip of denial.  These applications cannot be appealed. One can only reapply.

                  I have several concerns with the interview, the interviewer, and the non-reasons for the denial.

My wife has several compelling reasons to return to Thailand. These were not addressed in the online application. They were addressed in the folder of supporting documents.

                  My wife was not given a specific reason for the denial, the denial slip was not signed or dated, even though are lines to indicate that at date and signature were required.

Assumption: The interviewer made his decision based on the online application, and the 4 questions and answers.

                  Solutions:

                   First would be a written statement to the applicant that states the specific reasons for the denial. This would help to correct any inaccuracies or incomplete answers on the application so that she may reapply. 

                  Second: address the question of a compelling reason for return to Thailand on the application itself. 

                  Third:  would be for a one time waiver of  fees to reapply.

                  Lastly, make it compulsory for the interviewer to look at all supporting documents.  

                  As a US citizen who faithfully pays US taxes, I feel the treatment of my wife at the interview was rude, and disrespectful.  I feel that the US State dept., the US Embassy in Bangkok, and the interviewer should be admonished and solutions sought.

                                                                                                            Thank you for your consideration

 

 

[Russell17au]

11 minutes ago, bronzedude said:

 

It seems there are people who post on TV and have nothing better to do with their lives than criticize other posters. For those who have never gone through the preparation of a tourist visa application, traveled 3 hours for an early morning interview, paid a fee which due to the current exchange rate was more than the advertised fee, and with a limited knowledge of definitions, here is one:

 

dis·re·spect

/ˌdisrəˈspekt/

noun

noun: disrespect

1.    lack of respect or courtesy.

"growing disrespect for the rule of law"

synonyms:

contempt, lack of respect, scorn, disregard, disdain, opprobrium;  derision, mockery, ridicule "there is growing disrespect for authority" discourtesy, rudeness, impoliteness, incivility, unmannerliness, lack of respect, lack of civility, ungraciousness, irreverence, lack of consideration, ill/bad manners; insolence, impudence, impertinence, cheek, flippancy, churlishness; informallip, nerve "he said it on the spur of the moment, he meant no disrespect to anybody"

antonyms:

respect, esteem

verb

INFORMAL•NORTH AMERICAN

verb: disrespect; 3rd person present: disrespects; past tense: disrespected; past participle: disrespected; gerund or present participle: disrespecting

1.    show a lack of respect for; insult.

"a young brave who disrespects his elders"

 

By the way, what was meant by "those with not-so-white skin?" Sounds a bit (deleted) to me. By the way, in my letters to my Congressmen and US Senators (which are in the mail) I amended my lead term to "injustice." Here is a copy of my letter to the editor of the Washington Post. I've also sent letters to the Baltimore Sun, The Chicago tribune, The Seattle Times, The Boston Globe, The San Diego Union-Tribune, The Los Angeles Times, The San Francisco Chronicle, and The Honolulu Star-Advertiser. These letters may or may not get recognized, but at least I don't just sit around all day doing nothing. 

 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                    December 10,2019

Washington Post

Dear Editor,

                  I am writing this letter as a US citizen and veteran living in Thailand on retirement visa.

An injustice was made in the case of my Thai wife's denial of a tourist visa at the US embassy in Bangkok. 

                  After extensive preparation, She applied for a nonimmigrant "tourist" visa at the US embassy in Bangkok. She filled out the English application, scheduled an appointment, paid the $160 application fee, and took the 2 and 1/2 hour trip to Bangkok with a 30+ page folder of supporting documents.

                  My wife appeared for the interview on November 21.  Her appointment lasted less than 5 minutes. She was asked 4 questions. "Why do you want to go to the US?","How long have you been married?" "Who is paying for the visit?""Who is going with you ?"

                  The interviewer never looked at the folder of supporting documents. She was given a paper slip of denial.  These applications cannot be appealed. One can only reapply.

                  I have several concerns with the interview, the interviewer, and the non-reasons for the denial.

My wife has several compelling reasons to return to Thailand. These were not addressed in the online application. They were addressed in the folder of supporting documents.

                  My wife was not given a specific reason for the denial, the denial slip was not signed or dated, even though are lines to indicate that at date and signature were required.

Assumption: The interviewer made his decision based on the online application, and the 4 questions and answers.

                  Solutions:

                   First would be a written statement to the applicant that states the specific reasons for the denial. This would help to correct any inaccuracies or incomplete answers on the application so that she may reapply. 

                  Second: address the question of a compelling reason for return to Thailand on the application itself. 

                  Third:  would be for a one time waiver of  fees to reapply.

                  Lastly, make it compulsory for the interviewer to look at all supporting documents.  

                  As a US citizen who faithfully pays US taxes, I feel the treatment of my wife at the interview was rude, and disrespectful.  I feel that the US State dept., the US Embassy in Bangkok, and the interviewer should be admonished and solutions sought.

                                                                                                            Thank you for your consideration

 

 

What were your wife's answers to those 4 questions? Were you present to hear her answers?

[RJRS1301]

On 12/10/2019 at 7:41 PM, shy coconut said:

I don't think the post would have been made if the application was successful, so it seems

he is more upset at the decision rather than the personal interaction, that he wasn't witness to.

 

Well I am sure he can lodge an appeal on the decision, or at least find out the reasons behind the refusal.

 

[WhatupThailand]

Why do a tourist visa when you can do a Fiance Visa ?

Once in America she can get a Green Card and no more problems to enter the USA.

Been there done that, with no problem.

 

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, WhatupThailand said:

Why do a tourist visa when you can do a Fiance Visa ?

Once in America she can get a Green Card and no more problems to enter the USA.

Been there done that, with no problem.

 

It is his WIFE not fiancee

[Suradit69]

Some farang, not just Americans, think loss of face is uniquely a Thai or Asian thing. All you have to do read a few threads on TV to realize it's very much a farang thing too.

 

Anyone who is denied anything to do with immigrations or Thai embassies seems to run to TV and regale us with tales of rude, surly, unattractive, lesbian officials who treated them in an unambiguously uncivilized way.

 

Translated it generally means they were told "no" and they're throwing a hissy fit. Loss of face can be an assault on their fragile sense of self and a fatal <deleted> to their protective balloon.

[Orton Rd]

Probably cos she saw bar girls walking out with 10 year visas after lying their faces off

[bronzedude]

I would like to add to my previous post. My major concern with my wife being denied a tourist visa is with the interview process and protocol. And I wanted to bring some sort of attention to the seemingly sterile and ungracious process. There are apparently flagged items in an application and assumptions that an interviewer makes before and during the interview. It seemed very inconsiderate and yes insulting to me because no deference was paid to being the wife of a US citizen, having gone through to effort of assembling a substantial number of supporting documents, and dealing the rigors of just showing up for the interview. I don't care if you believe me or not, my wife does not want to immigrate to the US. She only wanted to see if America was indeed a vast and interesting place. We have been to Singapore several times, Skiing in Niseko, Japan several times, The Maldives and other places that her Thai passport is accepted without prejudice. Of course, if the interviewer would have looked at the supporting documents, this would have been readily apparent. It wouldn't be world shattering if she doesn't get a visa. When she was denied, I asked her where she would like to go on holiday and back to the Maldives and Japan where her answers. We decided on skiing again because she loves to build snowmen during a fresh snowfall. Our February trip is already booked and paid for. And for those who posted about the deficiencies of Thai Airways, which we took the previous 3 times due to the non-stop flight. We booked on Korean Air for a little more in price and an additional 2 hour flight duration. It's a better airline. For those without a life, ours is just fine. 

[bronzedude]

23 minutes ago, WhatupThailand said:

Why do a tourist visa when you can do a Fiance Visa ?

Once in America she can get a Green Card and no more problems to enter the USA.

Been there done that, with no problem.

 

You cannot do a fiancee visa if you are already legally married. I does seem strange that a fiancee visa is easier to get than a mere tourist visa. But that is a question for a different post.

[bronzedude]

36 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Well I am sure he can lodge an appeal on the decision, or at least find out the reasons behind the refusal.

 

You cannot appeal and good luck finding anyone who will communicate with you about visas at the US embassy. You can call but only for crimes or deaths involving US citizens. 

[bronzedude]

On 12/10/2019 at 3:37 PM, stevenl said:

Op and his wife put in a lot of effort in a visa application to meet all requirements, including assembling a lot of paperwork. According to the OP the officer did not even have a look at it. So yes, I would call that disrespecting. The officer should at least have had the decency to have a look at all the, for the application required, paperwork.

This is one response that I feel mirrors my questions about the visa process and protocol. It is about "decency." And for those who got their underwear in a tangle about the meaning of "disrespect," look a my post with the definition and learn something you didn't know.

[Straight8]

On 12/10/2019 at 3:37 PM, stevenl said:

Op and his wife put in a lot of effort in a visa application to meet all requirements, including assembling a lot of paperwork. According to the OP the officer did not even have a look at it. So yes, I would call that disrespecting. The officer should at least have had the decency to have a look at all the, for the application required, paperwork.

Although the OP could well be telling the truth, unless one is there to actually witness the whole thing, there is always two sides to the story. Sometimes you only see, hear, believe etc etc what you want to.

 

All those recent refusal entries at immigration spring to mind.

[BigStar]

I've never known anyone to regard USA embassy staff in BKK as friendly and welcoming. Remind me a bit of the TSA at American airports. I've always found them businesslike, however, if slightly superior there in their kingdom. Security, as one might expect, is pretty gruff.

 

Recently a Thai told me that everyone in the Japanese embassy was so much nicer than in the American. I can well believe that.

 

Suppose the officer was simply brief, direct, businesslike, and thought, as is his right, that looking at the supporting docs would be a waste of time in a busy day. Then he came out with the disappointing decision matter-of-factly without showing an ounce of sympathy. Note, however, he did say, "I'm sorry."

 

An American might regard this as just par for the course and expect nothing more. Sympathy isn't owed as part of the service; no offense taken. Might, or then again might throw a temper tantrum anyway. ????

 

But I could see how a Thai might interpret it as being insulting. And the husband supports his wife's view and really wanted that visa for her. Like, really, really.

 

On the other hand maybe the officer really was somewhat hostile and condescending. Staff are certainly capable of that and of making mistakes as well; we ain't talking members of the A team here. I've personally known of a decision to have been overruled after appeal to a politician.

 

We'll never know, since we weren't there. 

[Russell17au]

35 minutes ago, bronzedude said:

I would like to add to my previous post. My major concern with my wife being denied a tourist visa is with the interview process and protocol. And I wanted to bring some sort of attention to the seemingly sterile and ungracious process. There are apparently flagged items in an application and assumptions that an interviewer makes before and during the interview. It seemed very inconsiderate and yes insulting to me because no deference was paid to being the wife of a US citizen, having gone through to effort of assembling a substantial number of supporting documents, and dealing the rigors of just showing up for the interview. I don't care if you believe me or not, my wife does not want to immigrate to the US. She only wanted to see if America was indeed a vast and interesting place. We have been to Singapore several times, Skiing in Niseko, Japan several times, The Maldives and other places that her Thai passport is accepted without prejudice. Of course, if the interviewer would have looked at the supporting documents, this would have been readily apparent. It wouldn't be world shattering if she doesn't get a visa. When she was denied, I asked her where she would like to go on holiday and back to the Maldives and Japan where her answers. We decided on skiing again because she loves to build snowmen during a fresh snowfall. Our February trip is already booked and paid for. And for those who posted about the deficiencies of Thai Airways, which we took the previous 3 times due to the non-stop flight. We booked on Korean Air for a little more in price and an additional 2 hour flight duration. It's a better airline. For those without a life, ours is just fine. 

I do not know what relevance this post has to do with this thread except to maybe try and show how arrogant you are and that you think you are better than anyone else with your holiday trips to various countries and maybe your wife tried the same attitude with the interviewer and that is the reason for the failed attempt for a visa. I really don't care about where you go on your holiday and really it is not needed with this thread. I have seen this before with an American and his wife at Savannakhet where his wife is going around showing everyone the photo of their house and all the new furniture and all the other Thai wives were just walking away from her, while her husband started an argument with the Thai official because he claimed he did not have to give them a copy of his passport because he was handing them his original passport, they had to call security to escort him away. I again saw him the next day when we went to pick up our visa's, but they were ready for him this time as they had security close b, his visa was rejected because he only had 4 months remaining on passport and not the 6 months as required everywhere. They were stuck in Laos until he got a new passport. Unfortunately there are some people like that out there. And yes I do have a life with many friends and I don't need to try and show how rich I am or how many places I go to on Holidays.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/10/2019 at 9:45 PM, Sheryl said:

The OP himself was not at the interview so no way he could have been treated disrespectfully.

 

But entirely possible his wife was, and perhaps he takes that personally.

 

There are myriad ways a person can convey disrespect to another. Tone of voice, facial expression, failure to use courteous phrases etc.

 

We have no way of knowing  what exactly about the interaction made the woman feel she was disrespected but I doubt it was "failure to doff their hats and bow low".

 

Since the Consular officer made a decision without examining any of the supportive documentation or asking much in the way of questions it sounds like they formed an unfavorable an opinion of the woman being interviewed based on her overall appearance (as does happen),  and this quite likely showed in their verbal and non verbal commuication.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think being powerless in the face of bureaucracy adds to the feeling of being slighted, whether real or imagined, though there have been plenty of petty officials that have "disrespected" me when trying to travel, from visa officials to airport security staff, to immigration officials, to customs officers.

I know they deal with an endless throng of travellers, and it must be a bit of a drag, but they shouldn't do the job is they are going to be rude to people that make their job exist.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

I do not know what relevance this post has to do with this thread except to maybe try and show how arrogant you are and that you think you are better than anyone else with your holiday trips to various countries and maybe your wife tried the same attitude with the interviewer and that is the reason for the failed attempt for a visa. I really don't care about where you go on your holiday and really it is not needed with this thread. I have seen this before with an American and his wife at Savannakhet where his wife is going around showing everyone the photo of their house and all the new furniture and all the other Thai wives were just walking away from her, while her husband started an argument with the Thai official because he claimed he did not have to give them a copy of his passport because he was handing them his original passport, they had to call security to escort him away. I again saw him the next day when we went to pick up our visa's, but they were ready for him this time as they had security close b, his visa was rejected because he only had 4 months remaining on passport and not the 6 months as required everywhere. They were stuck in Laos until he got a new passport. Unfortunately there are some people like that out there. And yes I do have a life with many friends and I don't need to try and show how rich I am or how many places I go to on Holidays.

I don't see anything in his post that should produce such a hateful reply. I can guess, but I won't say it on here.

It's an anonymous forum to chat on, not a supreme court trial. Jai yen, jai yen.

[Russell17au]

26 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't see anything in his post that should produce such a hateful reply. I can guess, but I won't say it on here.

It's an anonymous forum to chat on, not a supreme court trial. Jai yen, jai yen.

I think you failed to read what I was saying. There are many Thai wives out there that have an arrogant attitude towards everyone else because they are married to a "rich" farang that buys them everything or takes them everywhere and that is not only Americans. Now if this mans Thai wife has the same arrogant attitude as he has put across with all his holidays and she goes into that interview with that attitude towards the interviewing officer then there is a good chance that her application will be refused as it has been. I used the American in Savannakhet as an example, because I believe that if he had done what they asked him to do without an argument then it could have been a different outcome for him.

[Onrai]

On 12/10/2019 at 2:43 PM, simon43 said:

There's a topic running in another thread where the OP states that he and his wife were 'disrespected' by embassy staff when she applied for a visa to visit the USA.

 

I've got no criticism of that OP, and good luck in getting the visa.

 

But <deleted> does it matter if you were 'disrespected'?  What does it actually mean?  Did the staff fail to doff their hats and bow low to you?  I'm at a loss about this often-stated phrase.  I personally don't give a flying <deleted> how much someone 'disrespects' me.  It seems to be a complaint from sports stars, those with a not-so-white skin and those applying for visas....

 

Is it really such a big issue for some people?  Sticks and stones etc

Yes it is a big deal. The greeting of Wai is so much more refreshing than someone giving you the finger. Everything flows from the mutual respect we have for each other. 

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, Onrai said:

Yes it is a big deal. The greeting of Wai is so much more refreshing than someone giving you the finger. Everything flows from the mutual respect we have for each other. 

Sadly, in my experience, the level of respect people have for others decreases in direct proportion to the amount of power they have over others. Hence, many of my bosses have been horrible people, customs officials have been open in their desire to find something to arrest me for as a single man coming from Thailand- I must have been guilty of being a pedo based solely on the fact I was a male, single and had been in Thailand, right? Some police think they have a right to be arrogant to everyone. Many examples in my life, but enough said.

Not all my bosses were horrible, not all customs officials are <deleted>, not all police are arrogant, but too many are.

[thailand49]

3 hours ago, Captain 776 said:

It all depends who does the personal interview.   That is where the decision is made.

When it comes to the U.S. Embassy, the agents are trained and provided a set of guidelines to follow majority of the cases even before the interviewed are already decided unless there is something left out prior they are asking questions to determine if that might be the case and if so the decision is reverse which was in the case of my brother who applied at the same time but as told to me the agent doesn't go in blind and decides on their own. 

[thailand49]

2 hours ago, Russell17au said:

I think part of the problem is with the misunderstanding of words because of different translations and accents. So maybe words that were used were words that are acceptable with other English speaking countries but are not the same meaning in many of the Asian countries. So maybe one simple word which is acceptable in English was used and may have been an insulting word to a Thai. I know one farang that has been trying to learn Thai and his teacher keeps telling him the word he is saying is wrong, and the Thai meaning of that word is the Thai woman's private parts. So maybe the Thai wife has mis-interpreted a word and now the husband is claiming it was disrespectful.

Sure it can happen but the interviews from my experience were being done by Americans who spoke as good Thai as a Thai. Not sure of their backgrounds but I would assume if a person was white and spoke Thai as if they were Thai came from a background although a American Citizen was born and raised in Thailand, International school etc.. certainly the two I had contact with seem to be mix blood very young and not spent a lot of time living in the U.S.?

 

The interview asked seem to be standard set questions it isn't like they are having coffee and talking socially? Why are you going to the U.S. what City etc etc where you meet, how long together etc etc..

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Well I am sure he can lodge an appeal on the decision, or at least find out the reasons behind the refusal.

 

There is no appeals process for a US visa denial.  Applicants can reapply.

 

The reason was  provided i.e. the consular officer was not convinced she would return to Thailand.

 

Now why that is the case would be worth knowing but you'll never find that out. Safe to assume lack of a job and (if the case) lack of property owned in her name would count against her but there may have been other factors including some intangibles, these interviews are very subjective.

 

I do think the marriage duration matters and may have weakened this application, in subsequent years it may be easier.  But it also might have gone differently even now with a different interviewer.

[atyclb]

2 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Probably cos she saw bar girls walking out with 10 year visas after lying their faces off

 

know of a freelance gal more active than many a bar girl with a nurses aid diploma that easily got a us tourist visa

[atyclb]

knew a wealthy family gal with a fancy university degree, condo, bmw and ample money in the bank was refused a tourist visa with a prepaid multicity tour package in a group with other thai's.

 

some of those interviewers are not happy campers. also knew a guy that worked at another s.e. asia us embassy and told me quote "it's our job to stop people"

 

once went to a s.american us consulate with an asian american friend that lost his passport and the consular officer was not polite at all.

[Orton Rd]

19 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

know of a freelance gal more active than many a bar girl with a nurses aid diploma that easily got a us tourist visa

We know one from the pent club who got 10 year visa lying that she worked for Marvel Comics! No tats, light skin and a degree, nicely dressed in a 10k outfit, still a slut worker.

[atyclb]

1 minute ago, Orton Rd said:

19 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

know of a freelance gal more active than many a bar girl with a nurses aid diploma that easily got a us tourist visa

We know one from the pent club who got 10 year visa lying that she worked for Marvel Comics! No tats, light skin and a degree nicely dressed, still a slut worker.

 

please don't disrespect "slut workers"

[Orton Rd]

She was quality control before a slut ???? Her bf did actually have a contract from Marvel Comics in Bkk, he was one of the biggest scam artists around and still owes money all over, including to the Mrs.

[atyclb]

14 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

She was quality control before a slut ???? Her bf did actually have a contract from Marvel Comics in Bkk, he was one of the biggest scam artists around and still owes money all over, including to the Mrs.

 

i have seen gals calling themselves "facebook engineers" . lol