Best way to stay in Thailand for as long as possible ?

[Escaflowne]

Hello, I'm a freelancer that can work from anywhere, I just spent 3 weeks and a half in Thailand as I was thinking of moving there, and of course I loved it.

 

Now I'm back in France and I see all reports of immigration getting super strict and I'm kinda scared to give everything up here to then get denied over there.

However, it seems I probably would not have problems at first since this would only be my second entry.

 

My question is, as I want to stay long term, what is the best course of action.

 

I have a few options in mind so far :

1. ED Visa + Learning Thai (allows me for 1 year without the hassle of exit, but can't travel if I want to, also adds a lot of hours to my days and I need to work for my remote clients) then ED again or METV

2. METV (if I understand correctly in this case I still have to do visa runs but I could stay up to 9 months ?) then come back with ED

3. METV or SETV with one visa run to stay in Thailand for 6 months, then go to Vietnam and do the same for 6 months (I believe this is the only option that would keep me in good terms with immigration on the long run)

 

Ideally, I'd like to be able to stay in Thailand most of the time so I can actually settle there but that seems like there's no way to make it happen

I've contacted a well known umbrella company as this was the best option for me but they said currently they cannot offer the service they used to (pay % of your income to them and they take care of visa + taxes for you)

They said Thai authorities "have requested they make changes to their business model"

 

Anyways, I'd like to have your experimented advice on what's the best path for me here, goal being to stay as long as possible

Also if I go the ED + METV route do you think it's better to start with METV or ED ?

Also I will have to renew my passport before going, so it will be a new one, I don't know if that may be important.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Escaflowne

[Pravda]

Elite Visa.

Because ED visa will end up costing you more money and a lot more hassle especially since you are a "freelancer".

 

If you can't afford Elite Visa it just means you are not a good "freelancer" and Thailand is not for you.

[ratcatcher]

OP doesn't indicate how old he is, which is always useful when giving answers.

[Escaflowne]

I'm 30

[scubascuba3]

If young get the 1m baht 20 year Elite, less hassle for you otherwise it will be a PITA for years

[DrJack54]

Elite Visa or do time in Los with also time in places like Vietnam (and I don't mean a week). Be creative 3+ months Thailand followed by couple months outside. Wash and repeat. 

[Bullie]

Another alternative would be to get married to a Thai woman, preferably a wealthy one. She can then put 400.000 baht in your bank account which would enable you to stay forever.

 

Go live the dream!

[Ventenio]

you have only been there 3.5 weeks.  Get a few tourist visa, few border runs and a few extensions and that should be good for like 7 or 8 months.  That's still not long enough to know if you want to get the 20-year Elite visa, but after a few years here I realize I wouldn't want a 20-year visa.  Life changes, and it's nice to have the freedom to go to Vietnam for a year, Japan for a year, etc....

[Sheryl]

As others have said, Elite Visa.

 

They are cracking down on people using tourist visas to live here. Unofficial limit of 180 days a year and then you may get hassled or denied entry.

 

Thwy are also cracking down on use of ED visas fot non degree programs.

 

Elite really is your best option and the only sure one.

 

But before sinking 1 million baht (or 500k but that option is more expensive in long run as gets you only 5 years whereas 1 million gets you 20) into it I suggest you first get a multi entry tourist visa. You'll have to leave and re enter after 3 months but that could be an opportunity to also explore other countries in SEA.  

 

This is just to be sure before taking the plunge. A single 3 week visit isn't really enough to guarantee you'll like living here full time. Likewise don't sever all ties back home just yet. Make your extended visit first and start setting things up (housing etc) so you get  a clear idea of costs and what long term living here will be like. (Make sure this trip includes the hot season!!).

[FritsSikkink]

You are not allowed to work here without a work permit. You won't get one as a freelancer. Get a job or setup a company.

[SteveK]

If you can afford the elite visa, that's the best option. Otherwise you would need to get a job, work permit, and a non-B, but you don't wanna do that because you have your online enterprise. Next option is to find a beautiful young girl and get married asap (pretty easy here). Marriage doesn't cost much and once you've got the certificate, then you can get a non-O and then the marriage extensions which give you one year at a time, providing you keep 400k or more in the bank for the required time.

 

You can use tourist visas and visa-exempt entries for several months, but a time will come when they won't let you in any more. In your situation, I would explore the neighboring countries a bit more as they are generally more friendly immigration-wise. Unless of course there is a girl involved already (there usually is).

[Matzzon]

48 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

You are not allowed to work here without a work permit. You won't get one as a freelancer. Get a job or setup a company.

I little bit wrong. There is no way of getting a visa based on freelancing. Although it´s not illegal to work as a freelancer in Thailand with work that has no connection to Thailand. That has already been cleared and confirmed by high ranking Immigration officers in Chiang Mai years ago.

[dcnx]

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

Elite Visa.

Because ED visa will end up costing you more money and a lot more hassle especially since you are a "freelancer".

 

If you can't afford Elite Visa it just means you are not a good "freelancer" and Thailand is not for you.

Absolute nonsense. It’s a terrible investment and waste of money that leaves you right back where you started when you’re finished.

 

Desperate people do desperate things. The elite is a desperate move.

[dcnx]

OP - Thailand is a never ending circus of jumping through hoops. Go somewhere else unless you want to waste money on the elite. For the same amount or a little more you can buy residency in a good handful of other places.

Edited December 10, 2019 by dcnx

[scubascuba3]

1 minute ago, dcnx said:

Absolute nonsense. It’s a terrible investment and waste of money that leaves you right back where you started when you’re finished.

 

Desperate people do desperate things. The elite is a desperate move.

The Elite would avoid the op 20 years of fannying about with border runs, extensions, EDs, denied entries, deported etc

Edited December 10, 2019 by scubascuba3

[Mike Teavee]

21 minutes ago, dcnx said:

Absolute nonsense. It’s a terrible investment and waste of money that leaves you right back where you started when you’re finished.

 

Desperate people do desperate things. The elite is a desperate move.

The guy is 30 so a 20 year Elite would leave him at 50/51 and eligible (under current rules) for a Non-O 

 

But I completely agree with the other posters who said that 3.5 weeks is not enough time in country to make a 1Million THB / 20 year investment 

 

I wonder if the following would work... Let's say the OP comes into Thailand in Jan on an METV and does...

1. 60 Days, followed by a 30 day extension 
2. Trip to another country, come back 
3. 60 Days, followed by a 30 day extension 
4. Trip to another country, come back 
5. 60 Days, followed by a 30 day extension 

... Now 9 months in (September), next steps would be...

1. Land Trip to another country (Trip 1 in 2020), come back get 30 day exempt
2. extend for 30 days 
3. Land Trip to another country (Trip 2 in 2020), come back get 30 day exempt
4. extend for 30 days

... Now in 2021 so the 2 x Land Border runs clock resets & (technically) can repeat the previous 4 steps again to get another 4 months, all in 17 months in-country (give or take a few border bounces) hopefully enough to confirm whether the Elite Visa is worth doing or not

 

No idea whether the above would work or not, but on paper it's (technically) perfect possible... 

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[SteveK]

21 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Although it´s not illegal to work as a freelancer in Thailand with work that has no connection to Thailand. 

This is not correct. According to Thai law, doing freelancing work on your computer is still work and is not allowed without a work permit, which you won't be able to get. Yes, if you keep it quiet you won't have any problems, but don't think that what you are doing is legal. It isn't.

Edited December 10, 2019 by SteveK

[FritsSikkink]

23 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I little bit wrong. There is no way of getting a visa based on freelancing. Although it´s not illegal to work as a freelancer in Thailand with work that has no connection to Thailand. That has already been cleared and confirmed by high ranking Immigration officers in Chiang Mai years ago.

That is persistent misinformation by freelancers. It is illegal, it says so in the labor law. Immigration is for visa, the labor department for labor law. That guy can say what he wants, doesn't change the law.

[Matzzon]

1 minute ago, SteveK said:

This is not correct. According to Thai law, doing freelancing work on your computer is still work and is not allowed without a work permit, which you won't be able to get. Yes, if you keep it quiet you won't have any problems, but don't think that what you are doing is legal. It isn't.

Okey, Let´s say I belive you. Never seen that law. Can you point me in the right direction, please?

Edited December 10, 2019 by Matzzon

[freeman01]

Totally doable, I am kind of doing the same but only half the year in Thailand and for tax purposes.

just leave the country for a few weeks between visas instead of visa run in/out within a day and you will be fine.

Malaysia is perfect for visa run, immigration let everyone in easily and the Thai immigration at the Malaysia border aren't as strict as they are at the Cambodia border.

 

Avoid bangkok airports as much as possible, they are a pain in the ass from my experience and many reports in this forum.

If an immigration officer asks anything, just say you are traveling, apparently it's a keyword that triggers a positive thought in their mind or something ... obviously that won't help if you stay most of the year in Thailand.

 

Get that METV if you can, it's golden and when you renew your passport, ask for one with more pages.

 

Don't buy an Elite visa, keep this as least resort in case it gets too difficult in a few years, it's just too expensive. 15k usd over 5 years is just a waste of money, think of the interest you could get on this or how much you could get buy investing this in stocks or in bitcoin over this period ...

 

Same with education visa, keep this for later when they start bothering you.

 

Not related but I would worry a bit about taxes, someone is gonna want to claim those juicy % on your earnings.

Also I would make sure to use a VPN when you actually work in Thailand for you computer and for your phone.

[richard_smith237]

25 minutes ago, dcnx said:

OP - Thailand is a never ending circus of jumping through hoops. Go somewhere else unless you want to waste money on the elite. For the same amount or a little more you can buy residency in a good handful of other places.

Such as ?? - these countries are as livable as Thailand? not everyone is comfortable in Costa Rica or Nicaragua... 

 

$26,000 (exchange rates were better then) bought me residency in Thailand for life (well, as near as damn it to residency).  At the same age as the Op, about 14 years ago I purchased Elite Membership (1MB lifetime - which unfortunately is not longer available) - it was the only way I could guarantee repeated unhindered visits - I was working regionally and frequently returned to Thailand where I based myself between overseas assignment. 

 

Realistically, if the Op wishes to stay in Thailand the Thai Elite is a viable option: 

1MB averaged out over 20 years is 134 baht per day... 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by richard_smith237

[FritsSikkink]

9 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Okey, Let´s say I belive you. Never seen that law. Can you point me in the right direction, please?

google it

[freeman01]

The law about work permit is to prevent foreigner stealing jobs to Thai people, if you work remotely from Thailand doing a job no Thai people could do they absolutely don't give a <deleted> and will never do anything.

 

The only risk is regarding taxes, if you stay more than 183 days you are accountable to pay taxes in Thailand and they could consider working remotely as work performed in Thailand and therefore would have to fill for tax there which would actually work in your favor compare to France haha.

Edited December 10, 2019 by freeman01

[Matzzon]

4 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

google it

 

10 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

That is persistent misinformation by freelancers. It is illegal, it says so in the labor law. Immigration is for visa, the labor department for labor law. That guy can say what he wants, doesn't change the law.

Ok so this has to do with the Alien Employment Act, right? Or is there any other laws that regards working in Thailand for foreigners?

Doesn´t matter how much I Google it, if it is not clearly inculded in that act. It was the law I asked to be pointed out.

[freeman01]

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Realistically, if the Op wishes to stay in Thailand the Thai Elite is a viable option: 

1MB averaged out over 20 years is 134 baht per day... 

10M THB upfront at 30yo ... would be the worst mistake ever but maybe it's just me.

eventually if you can borrow money with very low interest, then why not.

Edited December 10, 2019 by freeman01

[scubascuba3]

41 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

The guy is 30 so a 20 year Elite would leave him at 50/51 and eligible (under current rules) for a Non-O 

 

But I completely agree with the other posters who said that 3.5 weeks is not enough time in country to make a 1Million THB / 20 year investment 

 

I wonder if the following would work... Let's say the OP comes into Thailand in Jan on an METV and does...

1. 60 Days, followed by a 30 day extension 
2. Trip to another country, come back 
3. 60 Days, followed by a 30 day extension 
4. Trip to another country, come back 
5. 60 Days, followed by a 30 day extension 

... Now 9 months in (September), next steps would be...

1. Land Trip to another country (Trip 1 in 2020), come back get 30 day exempt
2. extend for 30 days 
3. Land Trip to another country (Trip 2 in 2020), come back get 30 day exempt
4. extend for 30 days

... Now in 2021 so the 2 x Land Border runs clock resets & (technically) can repeat the previous 4 steps again to get another 4 months, all in 17 months in-country (give or take a few border bounces) hopefully enough to confirm whether the Elite Visa is worth doing or not

 

No idea whether the above would work or not, but on paper it's (technically) perfect possible... 

 

In your example 1-5, the METV is only 6 months from when issued, so to get the max just before it expires you do a border run to get 60 days then a further extension. Your example doesn't quite add up, remember trips out of Thailand count towards that 6 months.

 

i was doing 60+60+60+60+30 just border runs for subsequent 60s

Edited December 10, 2019 by scubascuba3

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, dcnx said:

Absolute nonsense. It’s a terrible investment and waste of money that leaves you right back where you started when you’re finished.

 

Desperate people do desperate things. The elite is a desperate move.

Is that a joke? Knowing what I know now I would absolutely buy a 20 yr elite if I was 30. I came here late and was able to use extensions based on retirement. 

At 30+20 he can move to non o and annual extensions. In meantime do whatever he wants. You refer to it as nonsense. Geezus. 

ps OP, Sheryl makes good point. Stay in Los for min one year to see if really suits you. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by DrJack54

[SteveK]

46 minutes ago, freeman01 said:

The law about work permit is to prevent foreigner stealing jobs to Thai people, if you work remotely from Thailand doing a job no Thai people could do they absolutely don't give a <deleted> and will never do anything.

Wrong. If enough people know that you are coining it on some internet business whilst in Thailand, and then someone grasses, then you'll be deported.

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by SteveK

[richard_smith237]

33 minutes ago, freeman01 said:

43 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Realistically, if the Op wishes to stay in Thailand the Thai Elite is a viable option: 

1MB averaged out over 20 years is 134 baht per day... 

10M THB upfront at 30yo ... would be the worst mistake ever but maybe it's just me.

eventually if you can borrow money with very low interest, then why not.

Edited 31 minutes ago by freeman01

1MB (not 10) One of the best decisions I made with regards to my longevity in Thailand.

 

I can read these threads now from the safety of a life long visa, never having to apply for yearly extensions or deal with immigration (unless I stay longer than 90 days which I don't) or have any of the concerns so frequently raised on these threads. 

 

If you can't afford it, then of course, it's not for you - if 134 baht a day concerns you, then you perhaps need to re-thing your choices. 

 

Besides - with the additional services (AOT transport, Golf, Yearly medical etc) over 14 years (so far) the Thai Elite Membership approaches paying for itself.

 

 

[Pravda]

1 hour ago, dcnx said:

Absolute nonsense. It’s a terrible investment and waste of money that leaves you right back where you started when you’re finished.

 

Desperate people do desperate things. The elite is a desperate move.

 

Yes, it's a terrible investment. And to be fair no one knows what retirement visa will look like in 20 years. But op loves Thailand. And he wants to stay. Elite visa is the only solution. 

 

BTW, before I got married I took one of those Thai courses when they were dirt cheap and there were absolutely no issues, hassles, minimum hours, tests with immigration. I paid a bargain price of 20,000 for a 1 year visa and it was still a hassle. I remember spend g all day at the immigration just to extend the visa. Today it's 100 times worse and 5 times more expensive. 

 

Never again.