Best way to stay in Thailand for as long as possible ?

[freeman01]

16 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Wrong. ...

 

What do you mean "wrong" ? that's exactly why that kind of law exist ????

The law is only an issue if it is enforced, otherwise it's just some words in a law books used to satisfy some <deleted> international treaty and some special cases ...

They will never put the effort and energy to deport anyone working remotely who are not threatening Thai employment, laziness is a common denominator of all law enforcement agents in all south east Asia.

Edited December 10, 2019 by freeman01

[jackdd]

If I would choose a country today I would not choose Thailand. But now I'm tied to Thailand already

[Matzzon]

30 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Wrong. If enough people know that you are coining it on some internet business whilst in Thailand, and then someone grasses, then you'll be deported.

 

Ok, but you stated before it´s the law. Can´t you just show us that part of the law, instead of just insinuating things and make sad emoticons?

Edited December 10, 2019 by Matzzon

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

In your example 1-5, the METV is only 6 months from when issued, so to get the max just before it expires you do a border run to get 60 days then a further extension. Your example doesn't quite add up, remember trips out of Thailand count towards that 6 months.

 

i was doing 60+60+60+60+30 just border runs for subsequent 60s

You've lost me a little as in my example the OP would plan his 3rd trip to come back just before the 6 month mark.

 

You've just swapped the 1st 2x 30 day extensions for an extra border hop (60 day stamp)

 

Maths is (more or less) the same (Obviously I'm approximating as I have no idea whether the OP would do a same day turnaround or spend a couple of weeks elsewhere) just assumed it was taken as read that the 3rd entry needs to occur before the METV expiry date.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[freeman01]

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

1MB (not 10) One of the best decisions I made with regards to my longevity in Thailand.

 

I can read these threads now from the safety of a life long visa, never having to apply for yearly extensions or deal with immigration (unless I stay longer than 90 days which I don't) or have any of the concerns so frequently raised on these threads. 

 

If you can't afford it, then of course, it's not for you - if 134 baht a day concerns you, then you perhaps need to re-thing your choices. 

 

Besides - with the additional services (AOT transport, Golf, Yearly medical etc) over 14 years (so far) the Thai Elite Membership approaches paying for itself.

You'll have to be very wealthy to seriously consider it at this age.

 

The ROI you can get on 30,000 usd over 20 years could be insane, well worth the hassle of doing border runs. For instance if you had invested 30,000 usd into apple stock in 2000 (at the top of the bubble, worst possible time then) you would be up over 5000% now, over 1,500,000 usd now.

 

Price of bitcoin in 20 years anyone ?

 

again, only consider this if you take a loan for it.

 

 

 

[CygnusX1]

30 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Besides - with the additional services (AOT transport, Golf, Yearly medical etc) over 14 years (so far) the Thai Elite Membership approaches paying for itself.

Nowadays, only the 2 million baht 20 year elite includes those extras, not the 1 million baht 20 year elite. You certainly did get a good deal with your lifetime elite visa.

[Mike Teavee]

28 minutes ago, jackdd said:

If I would choose a country today I would not choose Thailand. But now I'm tied to Thailand already

Yes but which country & is the grass really greener there? 

[Nyezhov]

If you are a rich "freelancer" that can work from anywhere, I would just be doing 30 days here and 30 days there it makes no difference to a diginomad, right? Why would you jump through hoops to say here? Id be sitting on a beach at the Cote D Azur or Miami just watching my bitcoins flow in. 

 

 

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, freeman01 said:

The law about work permit is to prevent foreigner stealing jobs to Thai people, if you work remotely from Thailand doing a job no Thai people could do they absolutely don't give a <deleted> and will never do anything.

 

The only risk is regarding taxes, if you stay more than 183 days you are accountable to pay taxes in Thailand and they could consider working remotely as work performed in Thailand and therefore would have to fill for tax there which would actually work in your favor compare to France haha.

You just making random stuff up or is it substance abuse. Difficult to tell. 

[Escaflowne]

3 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

The guy is 30 so a 20 year Elite would leave him at 50/51 and eligible (under current rules) for a Non-O 

 

But I completely agree with the other posters who said that 3.5 weeks is not enough time in country to make a 1Million THB / 20 year investment 

 

I wonder if the following would work... Let's say the OP comes into Thailand in Jan on an METV and does...

1. 60 Days, followed by a 30 day extension 
2. Trip to another country, come back 
3. 60 Days, followed by a 30 day extension 
4. Trip to another country, come back 
5. 60 Days, followed by a 30 day extension 

... Now 9 months in (September), next steps would be...

1. Land Trip to another country (Trip 1 in 2020), come back get 30 day exempt
2. extend for 30 days 
3. Land Trip to another country (Trip 2 in 2020), come back get 30 day exempt
4. extend for 30 days

... Now in 2021 so the 2 x Land Border runs clock resets & (technically) can repeat the previous 4 steps again to get another 4 months, all in 17 months in-country (give or take a few border bounces) hopefully enough to confirm whether the Elite Visa is worth doing or not

 

No idea whether the above would work or not, but on paper it's (technically) perfect possible... 

 

This seems like one of the best option, for the start, it will give me time to know if I do want to stay in Thailand and to compare other countries around.

 

The Elite 20-years is out of question, I'm not spending 30,000$ just on visa and as some have pointed out, 3.5 weeks is not enough to make such an investment, even 16,000$ for 5 years is too much of a commitment at this point. I'm also scared if they cancel the program and that money is just gone. I don't think it would happend though as it seems it's all about money anyways.

 

No one has experience with umbrella companies ? That would have been perfect for me, pay taxes in Thailand and no hassle with visa. Complete freedom as well.

I guess Vietnam is becoming the new Thailand, as the company I talked with are setting up shop there. At first, I was set on Thailand because I experienced it but Vietnam looks very cool too, I'm worried it's not as safe as Thailand though.

 

I think I'll do METV and that will allow me to check out Vietnam as well. Then I can decide if I really absolutely want to be in Thailand, in the meantime I can focus on earning more and then maybe I don't mind blowing 15/30k on Elite, or maybe I'll have met the right girl and just get married.

 

Also I was hesitating between Bangkok and Chiang Mai but from what I heard about BKK airports, Bangkok is not so much an option.

 

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

[ThomasThBKK]

2 hours ago, Escaflowne said:

No one has experience with umbrella companies ? That would have been perfect for me, pay taxes in Thailand and no hassle with visa. Complete freedom as well.

I guess Vietnam is becoming the new Thailand, as the company I talked with are setting up shop there. At first, I was set on Thailand because I experienced it but Vietnam looks very cool too, I'm worried it's not as safe as Thailand though.

 

I think I'll do METV and that will allow me to check out Vietnam as well. Then I can decide if I really absolutely want to be in Thailand, in the meantime I can focus on earning more and then maybe I don't mind blowing 15/30k on Elite, or maybe I'll have met the right girl and just get married.

 

Also I was hesitating between Bangkok and Chiang Mai but from what I heard about BKK airports, Bangkok is not so much an option.

 

 

Umbrella company? Well if you think you save money there you are wrong but igluu and co exist...

 

Vietnam is no better than Thailand, they don't have any real long term visas.

 

The airport in BKK is halfway decent, no clue what you heard but it works fine.

[Escaflowne]

17 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Umbrella company? Well if you think you save money there you are wrong but igluu and co exist...

 

Vietnam is no better than Thailand, they don't have any real long term visas.

 

The airport in BKK is halfway decent, no clue what you heard but it works fine.

Umbrella company = 20% of my income for both visa + taxes + coworking space + networking opportunities

France = 25% of my income for just taxes/cotisations with higher cost of living

No brainer here.

Yes, but in Vietnam I can go with the umbrella company.

And for airport just the posts I've seen here, many of them recommend to avoid them.

[Maestro]

7 hours ago, Matzzon said:

...Never seen that law. Can you point me in the right direction, please?

 

• Royal Decree on Managing the Work of Foreigners B.E. 2560 (2017) – th
• Royal Decree on Managing the Work of Foreigners (No. 2) B.E. 2561 (2018) – th 

The text of the two Royal decrees cited above are in Thai language.

 

[Escaflowne]

So is there any advantage to METV though compared to doing the same thing with SETV ?

[PingRoundTheWorld]

5 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

If you are a rich "freelancer" that can work from anywhere, I would just be doing 30 days here and 30 days there it makes no difference to a diginomad, right? Why would you jump through hoops to say here? Id be sitting on a beach at the Cote D Azur or Miami just watching my bitcoins flow in.

It's not that simple. If you rent a condo then you have to pay rent whether you are there or not. Living out of hotels on a permanent basis is inconvenient and more expensive. I rent a condo in Bangkok so that's where I spend most of my time, when I travel to other countries I end up paying double-rent which sucks. I'm actually giving up my condo soon specifically so I could travel for a while before getting a new one.

[Mike Teavee]

5 hours ago, Escaflowne said:

I guess Vietnam is becoming the new Thailand, as the company I talked with are setting up shop there. At first, I was set on Thailand because I experienced it but Vietnam looks very cool too, I'm worried it's not as safe as Thailand though.

Vietnam is every bit as safe as Thailand (if not a little safer) & has some wonderful places to visit from HCMC(Saigon) which though, not as cosmopolitan as Bangkok, has everything you might need (except GoGo bars ????)... to the beautiful (IMHO) Halong bay & a whole coastline of nice beaches.  It does lack islands (though I believe Phu Quoc is nice), but if I wanted islands, I'd go to Philippines. 

 

I'm assuming you're French (on the basis you said you were back in France) obviously Vietnam has a long French history & you can still see/feel the French influence, Vietnamese Baguettes are much better though ????

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[Escaflowne]

13 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Vietnam is every bit as safe as Thailand (if not a little safer) & has some wonderful places to visit from HCMC(Saigon) which though, not as cosmopolitan as Bangkok, has everything you might need (except GoGo bars ????)... to the beautiful (IMHO) Halong bay & a whole coastline of nice beaches.  It does lack islands (though I believe Phu Quoc is nice), but if I wanted islands, I'd go to Philippines. 

 

I'm assuming you're French (on the basis you said you were back in France) obviously Vietnam has a long French history & you can still see/feel the French influence, Vietnamese Baguettes are much better though ????

 

Thanks for the info, Vietnam does look like a very good option too.

I'm thinking I'll max out the METV in Thailand while doing the visa runs to Vietnam visiting HCMC and Da Nang (umbrella co said they would setup there and it looks beautiful).

 

At the end of that, I will have no choice but to go somewhere else than Thailand.

So maybe it'll be Vietnam, maybe I'll decide Vietnam is better and stay long term there as if I understand correctly they don't have a problem with visa runs.

Or maybe I love Thailand too much and just stay for 3 months then try to repeat the METV, but I think in that case I have to go back to France, right ? Or can I ask for METV from Vietnam too ?

 

The Philippines definitely look great too.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Escaflowne

[Escaflowne]

Many options, yes. Not all good though. And I'm not doing SEO, I'm a legit web developer, just trying to live somewhere better while also being able to save more money. Also not trying to waste 10k+ on visa fees.

 

The fact that they clearly want money to come in their country but don't allow people that make a high western salary without competing with anyone in Thailand spend their money there is really baffling. Most people like me are even ready to pay taxes their instead of home. So <deleted> ?

Edited December 10, 2019 by Escaflowne

[steve187]

9 hours ago, dcnx said:

Absolute nonsense. It’s a terrible investment and waste of money that leaves you right back where you started when you’re finished.

 

Desperate people do desperate things. The elite is a desperate move.

at 30 years old an elite visa will take him to 50 years old and then into 'retirement' rules, so at 30 its the perfect age to get a 20 year elite visa

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Escaflowne said:

Or can I ask for METV from Vietnam too ?

You can only get an METV from a country where you're legally resident (typically your own country)

 

Re: Thailand, you're entitled to 2 (no more, no less) Land Border entries per calendar year so you can always get an extra 4 months (2 x 30 days each extended by 30 days) out of this.

 

Da Nang is a lovely place, thinking of heading back there for a couple of weeks myself early next year, 1 thing to keep in mind is you're only allowed one 14 day Visa Exempt* entry into Vietnam then you need to spend a minimum of 30 days out of the country before you can get another one... Really easy to get 3 month Visas though & possibly a 1 year one for Business purposes  

 

*NB If you're going to Phu Quoc, the VE is for 30 days... 

 

 

Edit: Re: Visa for Vietnam,  It's $38 to get the "Invitation" letter, you then pick-up and pay for the "Stamping" of the Visa when you arrive, $25 for SIngle Entry & $50 for Multi Entry....

 

So 3 months ME will cost US$88 (approx 2,700 THB or 80 Euros)

 

Some useful information here https://www.evisa.com.vn/news-on-visa-vietnam/item/782-how-much-does-it-cost-to-get-vietnam-visa-on-arrival-totally 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

You've lost me a little as in my example the OP would plan his 3rd trip to come back just before the 6 month mark.

 

You've just swapped the 1st 2x 30 day extensions for an extra border hop (60 day stamp)

 

Maths is (more or less) the same (Obviously I'm approximating as I have no idea whether the OP would do a same day turnaround or spend a couple of weeks elsewhere) just assumed it was taken as read that the 3rd entry needs to occur before the METV expiry date.

Assuming the person just does a border run rather than spend time in another country, a 60 day entry (2300 baht from Pattaya) is more cost effective than 30 day extension (1900 baht)

[Escaflowne]

Don't you lose those 30 days then ?

 

Assuming you can only enter 2 times and get 60 + 30 days extension. Or can you enter as many times as you want so long as you stay no more than 60 days and your entries are within the METV expiry date ?

Edited December 10, 2019 by Escaflowne

[Mike Teavee]

12 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Assuming the person just does a border run rather than spend time in another country, a 60 day entry (2300 baht from Pattaya) is more cost effective than 30 day extension (1900 baht)

True, but he did say that he wanted to minimize the amount of time he had to spend out of the country as he is doing remote work for Clients (which I'm assuming nets him more than the 500 THB difference ???? )

 

I think the point is, to use the METV however you like, then just before it expires come back, get another 60 day stamp and extend this for another 30 days and so get an extra 3 months (less a day or 2).

 

I'm more curious as to people's thoughts on whether you'd be able to do a couple of land border runs after the (nearly) 9 months on the METV, as this would give you another 4 months (2 x 30 day VE, each extended for 30 days) or possibly even 8 months if it was timed correctly 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Escaflowne said:

Many options, yes. Not all good though. And I'm not doing SEO, I'm a legit web developer, just trying to live somewhere better while also being able to save more money. Also not trying to waste 10k+ on visa fees.

The fact that they clearly want money to come in their country but don't allow people that make a high western salary without competing with anyone in Thailand spend their money there is really baffling. Most people like me are even ready to pay taxes their instead of home. So <deleted> ?

Well that's the way it is. So forget it. If you want to base yourself in the region then probably better off somewhere like Hong Kong. 180 day non-restrictive visa entry at immigration each time, no employment restrictions, good infrastructure and decent wifi/broadband. The downside is accommodation is expensive compared to Thailand. From there you can come to Thailand on monthly jaunts without the visa hassle.

[Matzzon]

3 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

• Royal Decree on Managing the Work of Foreigners B.E. 2560 (2017) – th
• Royal Decree on Managing the Work of Foreigners (No. 2) B.E. 2561 (2018) – th 

The text of the two Royal decrees cited above are in Thai language.

 

Thanks! I will read them as soon as I´ve had my breakfast, morning coffée and a beer. ???? 

[jackdd]

3 hours ago, Escaflowne said:

just trying to live somewhere better while also being able to save more money.

If you live in Bangkok you will most likely spend more money than in France.

[ubonjoe]

This topic just got several posts shorter after I removed several troll, off topic, false info and etc posts and replies to them.

[Matzzon]

6 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

• Royal Decree on Managing the Work of Foreigners B.E. 2560 (2017) – th
• Royal Decree on Managing the Work of Foreigners (No. 2) B.E. 2561 (2018) – th 

The text of the two Royal decrees cited above are in Thai language.

 

Ok, have been taking my time reading this incredible and massive lump of complicated information that has same many holes like a swiss cheese. ???? 

Thanks for the info, it was interesting reading, though.

However, I am still searching for the law that states you can not work as a freelancer in Thailand with foreign customers as well as no connection to any kind of Thai related business or any possibility to can have a connection to Thai related business, services or products. (That is probably because there is no, and that is also the reason why they can´t enforce something that does not exist.)

Everything you need to know, basically can be found in Section 5. What this decree regards is work beeing done as a foreigner employed by a Thai company or organistation, and a foreigner that start a Thai company and are going to work in the same company. This decree has nothing do do with a person sitting in Thailand doing freelance work for customers originating for other continents. That´s easy to understand, due to that they do not even have the possibility to call this a work under the labour laws existing today.

You can read the reserved things they call work that only Thais can do, and oyu can also read the list of works that are possible for foreigners in Thailand to do if they are approved and given a work permit. Nowhere there can you find the kind of work we are specifically talking about here.

That is also why a person that is a freelancer not can get a work permit, because it is simply not a kind of thing that is taken up as a "work" according to the labour laws of today.

The sum of everything here will be: According to that Thaialnd do not have a work description for freelancers in the form of digital nomads, there is no possibility to get a work permit. Due to that this kind of work is not included in the labour law as something that is to be considered as a work in Thailand, there is neither going to be any possibility to deem what digital nomads do as anything illegal.

Note: Another thing that might bite a digital nomad in their big butts is the taxman. Here there is a clear rule that the one that stays more than 180 days in Thailand during a calendar year, also have to pay taxes on any kind of incomes/profit made during that year. (Here I know that there are special treaty between Thailand and some countries that in some parts override that clause) However, that is easy to get around. Everyone can get a TIN-number at their local Revenue Office, and just have the knowldge of how much it regards as well as pay the tax due.

[emptypockets]

4 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

You can only get an METV from a country where you're legally resident (typically your own country)

 

Re: Thailand, you're entitled to 2 (no more, no less) Land Border entries per calendar year so you can always get an extra 4 months (2 x 30 days each extended by 30 days) out of this.

 

Da Nang is a lovely place, thinking of heading back there for a couple of weeks myself early next year, 1 thing to keep in mind is you're only allowed one 14 day Visa Exempt* entry into Vietnam then you need to spend a minimum of 30 days out of the country before you can get another one... Really easy to get 3 month Visas though & possibly a 1 year one for Business purposes  

 

*NB If you're going to Phu Quoc, the VE is for 30 days... 

 

 

Edit: Re: Visa for Vietnam,  It's $38 to get the "Invitation" letter, you then pick-up and pay for the "Stamping" of the Visa when you arrive, $25 for SIngle Entry & $50 for Multi Entry....

 

So 3 months ME will cost US$88 (approx 2,700 THB or 80 Euros)

 

Some useful information here https://www.evisa.com.vn/news-on-visa-vietnam/item/782-how-much-does-it-cost-to-get-vietnam-visa-on-arrival-totally 

 

 

 

There is no restriction on land border crossings for a visa holder.