Best way to stay in Thailand for as long as possible ?

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

However, I am still searching for the law that states you can not work as a freelancer in Thailand with foreign customers as well as no connection to any kind of Thai related business or any possibility to can have a connection to Thai related business, services or products. (That is probably because there is no, and that is also the reason why they can´t enforce something that does not exist.)

Not likely for it to happen as long as it is done in the privacy of a persons residence. It is sort of a out of sight out of mind thing.

There have been people caught doing it but they were doing a illegal activity online besides working online.

This is the same discussion that has come up for over a decade on this forum.

[Matzzon]

12 hours ago, freeman01 said:

You'll have to be very wealthy to seriously consider it at this age.

 

The ROI you can get on 30,000 usd over 20 years could be insane, well worth the hassle of doing border runs. For instance if you had invested 30,000 usd into apple stock in 2000 (at the top of the bubble, worst possible time then) you would be up over 5000% now, over 1,500,000 usd now.

 

Price of bitcoin in 20 years anyone ?

 

again, only consider this if you take a loan for it.

 

 

 

I know this will sound insane for you. Have you ever considered that some people can think of 1MB as a very good investment for getting 20 hassle free years in Thailand?

I guess it´s up to each and everyone to decide what is of value in life.

(Note: I agree with you, that it would be much better to make investments with the money)

[Matzzon]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not likely for it to happen as long as it is done in the privacy of a persons residence. It is sort of a out of sight out of mind thing.

There have been people caught doing it but they were doing a illegal activity online besides working online.

This is the same discussion that has come up for over a decade on this forum.

I know it´s something that has been talked about to death. ???? I am tired over it too. ????

What I once again is trying to do is to clear up the legality in all. The fact is that there is no clear foundation in the Thai law, Immigration Law or Labour Law that learly states anything illegal with working as a digital nomad in Thailand. You can nt even find it described as a work in the Labour Law. That is the reason why they do not do anything, because there is nothing in the law that gives them the power to act.

Therefore it is not an illegal act to be and work as a digital nomad in Thailand, due to that Thailands laws does not classyfy this or describe this as a work.

[stuhan]

To be honest at 30 its gonna be expensive,you would be far better staying in Cambodia its far easier and wont  empty your wallet.Also if you can live near the thai border you can visit Thailand often if thats what you like.If things get any worse here in Thailand,Cambodia is where i will be heading,i know a few people there who love it.

[happy chappie]

Being from France I would suggest laos or Vietnam.plenty of french people and very cheap with visa being a lot easier.

why come to a country that expats are leaving or being forced out with new immigration laws.

[cheshiremusicman]

15 hours ago, dcnx said:

OP - Thailand is a never ending circus of jumping through hoops. Go somewhere else unless you want to waste money on the elite. For the same amount or a little more you can buy residency in a good handful of other places.

Please tell us where these 'handful of places' are in the world.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

6 hours ago, Escaflowne said:

Or maybe I love Thailand too much and just stay for 3 months then try to repeat the METV, but I think in that case I have to go back to France, right ? Or can I ask for METV from Vietnam too ?

Yes, to get another METV you will need to go back to France. Alternatively you could get a SETV at a neighboring countries, however some of them place restrictions on if and how many visas they issue. I'm not sure which countries in the area will issue out a SETV if you have already had a METV - does anyone know?

 

5 hours ago, steve187 said:

at 30 years old an elite visa will take him to 50 years old and then into 'retirement' rules, so at 30 its the perfect age to get a 20 year elite visa

You're assuming both programs actually exist in 20 years in their current form. That may not be the case.

[Alex2554]

Invest 10M baht in Thai stocks or real estate and get an investment visa.

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

Note: Another thing that might bite a digital nomad in their big butts is the taxman. Here there is a clear rule that the one that stays more than 180 days in Thailand during a calendar year, also have to pay taxes on any kind of incomes/profit made during that year. (Here I know that there are special treaty between Thailand and some countries that in some parts override that clause) However, that is easy to get around. Everyone can get a TIN-number at their local Revenue Office, and just have the knowldge of how much it regards as well as pay the tax due.

Small (but important) correction, you'll only be taxed on money earned this year that's brought into the country, so if you are bringing in monies earned in the previous calendar year, they're not liable for Tax.

 

E.G. if on 1st January you brought in all of the money you needed for the year, then doesn't matter how much you earn outside of Thailand during the year, it's not taxable. 

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, emptypockets said:

There is no restriction on land border crossings for a visa holder.

I know that, we're talking about once the METV has expired & coming back over a land border using Visa Exempt(s).

[scubascuba3]

4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

I know that, we're talking about once the METV has expired & coming back over a land border using Visa Exempt(s).

2 land border crossings in the same year after METV are allowed, but i used to go back to the UK and get another METV

[Sheryl]

I am surprised no Thai or enterprising resident expat has not yet figured out there could be profit to be made in setting up an actual Thai company that hires digital nomads to do their usual work on say a commission or base salary plus commission basis. The nomads would gain WPs, B visas and health cover under SS, maybe also some office space and support services could be available for those based in major cities.

 

OP: have you ruled out being employed as a web developer by a Thai company? If so then don't forget in your planning the need for private health insurance. True in both Thailand and VN (as well as any other non-Schengen country you might go to). I think April has an expat  policy specifically tailored to French citizens.

[Matzzon]

34 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Small (but important) correction, you'll only be taxed on money earned this year that's brought into the country, so if you are bringing in monies earned in the previous calendar year, they're not liable for Tax.

 

E.G. if on 1st January you brought in all of the money you needed for the year, then doesn't matter how much you earn outside of Thailand during the year, it's not taxable. 

 

Totally correct! In my text I was assuming that the payment for services went to a Thai bankaccount, due to that you do not have to worry about the legaility issues.

[NoshowJones]

16 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

The Elite would avoid the op 20 years of fannying about with border runs, extensions, EDs, denied entries, deported etc

That is very true, but the Elite Visa is just a form of blackmail by the Thai authorities against the under fifties.

It is also one of the reasons that a lot of hotels, guesthouses and restaurants etc, are losing business. Thailand is so concerned about losing face and admitting that they have got it all wrong, it is all going to

end up biting themselves in the backside.

 

 

[NoshowJones]

16 hours ago, SteveK said:

This is not correct. According to Thai law, doing freelancing work on your computer is still work and is not allowed without a work permit, which you won't be able to get. Yes, if you keep it quiet you won't have any problems, but don't think that what you are doing is legal. It isn't.

If we all start worrying about what is illegal and what is not, then there is no point in getting out of bed in the morning.

[freeman01]

2 hours ago, Matzzon said:

I know this will sound insane for you. Have you ever considered that some people can think of 1MB as a very good investment for getting 20 hassle free years in Thailand?

I guess it´s up to each and everyone to decide what is of value in life.

(Note: I agree with you, that it would be much better to make investments with the money)

I am just stating my opinion obiviously. It's not insane at all, as long as you are fully aware of the alternatives before you make your choice.

Believe it or not I am actually considering it myself so I have given it a lot thoughts, but currently I am eyeing at those new bitcoin backed loans that are starting to pop here and there for this.

 

[freeman01]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

Small (but important) correction, you'll only be taxed on money earned this year that's brought into the country, so if you are bringing in monies earned in the previous calendar year, they're not liable for Tax.

 

E.G. if on 1st January you brought in all of the money you needed for the year, then doesn't matter how much you earn outside of Thailand during the year, it's not taxable. 

 

Hmm ... this is where this is a bit of a grey area actually.

Since you are actually performing an actual job as a web developer inside the territory of Thailand, you income could very well fall under Thailand tax even without remitting the funds in the country if you stay all year. This as opposed to activities such as investing or managing a company overseas that wouldn't fall under work activity I believe.

I am pretty certain they don't enforce that though, and even if they wanted to it would be very difficult to do, but technically I would be careful stating the opposite with certainty.

 

Note that the Immigration dept and the Revenue dpt aren't working together systematically but only on rare cases, I believe each have their own set of rules.

 

[khunPer]

19 hours ago, Escaflowne said:

My question is, as I want to stay long term, what is the best course of action.

Thailand Elite can give you up to 20 years...????

[freeman01]

To iterate on my post above, I believe in this case you wouldn't be breaking the immigration laws by doing this freelance job while staying in the country, simply because you do not take anyone's job.

But you would be breaking the Revenue dept laws if not paying taxes for a job performed on Thailand territory as per Thailand territorial taxation system.

 

If I am not mistaken Thailand will be entering the CRS treaty with european countries and many others in the coming years, when they do they will have access to bank account information in all CRS countries that are owned by Thai tax resident individual and then would be able to asks questions and make you pay in this case.

 

Interested to have anyone's constructive opinion on this.

Edited December 11, 2019 by freeman01

[varun]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I am surprised no Thai or enterprising resident expat has not yet figured out there could be profit to be made in setting up an actual Thai company that hires digital nomads to do their usual work on say a commission or base salary plus commission basis. The nomads would gain WPs, B visas and health cover under SS, maybe also some office space and support services could be available for those based in major cities.

This is mostly what Iglu does - https://iglu.net

 

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Thailand Elite can give you up to 20 years...????

That is not the official website. This is it. https://www.thailandelite.com/?locate=en

[HampiK]

16 hours ago, freeman01 said:

You'll have to be very wealthy to seriously consider it at this age.

 

The ROI you can get on 30,000 usd over 20 years could be insane, well worth the hassle of doing border runs. For instance if you had invested 30,000 usd into apple stock in 2000 (at the top of the bubble, worst possible time then) you would be up over 5000% now, over 1,500,000 usd now.

 

Price of bitcoin in 20 years anyone ?

 

again, only consider this if you take a loan for it.

Can you give me the tip of today, what I should buy for become a 5000% gain?

It's always easy to say this afterwards. But there are also a lot of example where you invest 30'000 USD 20 years ago and now you would have 0! This only works if you really in it.

I know there are a lot of people who tell they make a fortune in Investments, but somehow most of them not retired yet, why? 

If I made already a fortune then I would now retired and enjoy the life but I guess many talk a lot but in reality not have the money.

[freeman01]

was an extreme example to make my point obviously, just to make people who might not be very knowledgeable financially that those 30,000 USD could be worth more than it seems at first.

 

Although since you asked, I would bet on bitcoin currently for insane gains long term.

Edited December 11, 2019 by freeman01

[Sheryl]

23 minutes ago, varun said:

This is mostly what Iglu does - https://iglu.net

 

 

Very interesting.

 

Assuming they are able to arrange B visas, WPs, and Social Security contributions, OP should investigate it as an option.

[Caldera]

2 hours ago, varun said:

This is mostly what Iglu does - https://iglu.net

Or did. Apparently they're not accepting new foreign employees at this point, and it's unclear if they will be willing and able to make those "changes to their business model" that the Thai authorities require them to make.

[Escaflowne]

5 hours ago, freeman01 said:

To iterate on my post above, I believe in this case you wouldn't be breaking the immigration laws by doing this freelance job while staying in the country, simply because you do not take anyone's job.

But you would be breaking the Revenue dept laws if not paying taxes for a job performed on Thailand territory as per Thailand territorial taxation system.

 

If I am not mistaken Thailand will be entering the CRS treaty with european countries and many others in the coming years, when they do they will have access to bank account information in all CRS countries that are owned by Thai tax resident individual and then would be able to asks questions and make you pay in this case.

 

Interested to have anyone's constructive opinion on this.

I don't think it's an issue as the money only goes from and to French bank accounts. Plus, I cannot be a resident given my visa options.

[Escaflowne]

5 hours ago, varun said:

This is mostly what Iglu does - https://iglu.net

 

They don't do it right now, they said at least until Q2 2020, they were "asked to change their business model"

[Escaflowne]

5 hours ago, HampiK said:

Can you give me the tip of today, what I should buy for become a 5000% gain?

It's always easy to say this afterwards. But there are also a lot of example where you invest 30'000 USD 20 years ago and now you would have 0! This only works if you really in it.

I know there are a lot of people who tell they make a fortune in Investments, but somehow most of them not retired yet, why? 

If I made already a fortune then I would now retired and enjoy the life but I guess many talk a lot but in reality not have the money.

Of course if you pick your stocks manually you have to know a lot, but most of the time, if you're able to pick good stocks you don't have to spend a lot on time on it.

Also picking individual stocks is always a risk, index funds are quite safe however since they follow the global market trend which is always going up.

And you can improve on that by investing in index funds that target the big tech companies that grow even faster.

NASDAQ 100 : 

QQQ YTD return:	32.98%
Annualized Gain:	34.99%

Edited December 11, 2019 by Escaflowne

[Martyp]

You can do all the calculations you want about whether the price for an Elite visa is a good/bad financial investment. What an Elite visa does get you is the ability for those under 50 years old to live in Thailand.

[freeman01]

21 minutes ago, Escaflowne said:

I don't think it's an issue as the money only goes from and to French bank accounts. Plus, I cannot be a resident given my visa options.

You become tax resident after spending a total of 183 days in the country regardless of which visa you used to get in.

if you pay taxes in France then no worries because of the double tax treaty between the 2 country, if you don't however then this is something to investigate.

Edited December 11, 2019 by freeman01