O_A Extensions 75+ Based on Retirement ONLY.

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, Olmate said:

Why grandfather one group over another, both I would think!

Because in step 1 (the OAs) its a test, they are gauging feedback, reactions, training IOs in thier own 'test it live' type way, making the thai style collaborative decisions through the organisation, to see what they want to enforce, what is possible or not. They also offer a very simple way (again in Thai style) to avoid the problem and act as a pressure valve so no one truly needs to be deported over this, anyone who can get an OA / extension of stay can also go and start an O.. 

If it rolls out to other classes they will need to be aware they now lack that pressure valve and so the testing of step 1 will need to be more complete.. In Thai logic you could even think that step 1 is exactly that, a feedback gathering system of how they will roll it out, where the pain points are, which ones of those they care about or not. 

 

 

 

 

[david555]

1 minute ago, LivinLOS said:

Because in step 1 (the OAs) its a test, they are gauging feedback, reactions, training IOs in thier own 'test it live' type way, making the thai style collaborative decisions through the organisation, to see what they want to enforce, what is possible or not. They also offer a very simple way (again in Thai style) to avoid the problem and act as a pressure valve so no one truly needs to be deported over this, anyone who can get an OA / extension of stay can also go and start an O.. 

If it rolls out to other classes they will need to be aware they now lack that pressure valve and so the testing of step 1 will need to be more complete.. In Thai logic you could even think that step 1 is exactly that, a feedback gathering system of how they will roll it out, where the pain points are, which ones of those they care about or not. 

 

 

 

 

In your correct analysis you use western logic …..forgetting we dealing with Thai logic ...

[Momofarang]

2 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Because in step 1 (the OAs) its a test, they are gauging feedback, reactions, training IOs in thier own 'test it live' type way, making the thai style collaborative decisions through the organisation, to see what they want to enforce, what is possible or not. They also offer a very simple way (again in Thai style) to avoid the problem and act as a pressure valve so no one truly needs to be deported over this, anyone who can get an OA / extension of stay can also go and start an O.. 

If it rolls out to other classes they will need to be aware they now lack that pressure valve and so the testing of step 1 will need to be more complete.. In Thai logic you could even think that step 1 is exactly that, a feedback gathering system of how they will roll it out, where the pain points are, which ones of those they care about or not. 

 

 

 

 

This is the most sensible post I've read on this topic. Thanks Mate.

[Thaidream]

10 minutes ago, Henryford said:

90k ticket now but what happens in a few years when it rises to 150k, 250k

Exactly why the only reasonable answer to this farce is to grandfather anyone on an O-A prior to the date of 31 October 2019.  If they do that, then reform the whole insurance conundrum  all parties will evedntually be  covered.

 

The current process is not only unfair but probably illegal and would never pass scrutiny by a court.  Unfortunately, in Thailand to bring such an action would cost a great deal of money.

 

In addition, long term expats have no local advocacy group such as is found in Western countries and therefore have only our respective embassies to try and express our dismay over being treated in an arbitrary and unfair manner.

 

Unless there is absolutely no other way- I refuse to purchase a worthless insurance policy with insufficient coverage and sold only by a few selected insurance companies based on an age group of  50- 100 which guarantees maximum premiums and huge windfall profits.

 

IMO-when the powers that be see the complete  revulsion to their medical coverage plan and the protests of the various embassies not to mention the bad publicity on social media and the print media- they will have to reconsider what they are doing and rethink the whole issue.

 

What is interesting is that the Ministry of Health actually  knew there would be a problem such as this and went ahead anyway with a plan that is a failure.  The O-X Visa is a big failure and  so will be any new O-A Visas .

 

  The exclusion of  insurance policies already issued abroad to include  coverage on retired  military and disabled veterans shows me that  the intent of someone in power was not to solve  any  medical related issues for foreigneres but an attempt to  force  expats into a lose-lose situation  

 

The real solution is  fairly simple:

 

1.  Grandfather anyone with a pre OA Visa no  mandatory medical insurance. Anyone obtaining a new O-A dated after 31 Oct 2019 needs the insurance.

 

2. Accept  medical insurance provided by any provider -foreign or Thai as well as what is provided by a foreign Government  (Military retirees/Disabled Veterans

 

3. Start bringing  those who cannot get medical iinsurance into the Thai Social Security System at a fair and equitable cost. At the very least, allow anyone over the age of 70  to be placed into the system.

 

4.  Add a fee onto every airline ticket to provide coverage for every tourist that comes to Thailand. 

 

Right now, it appears the best solution  is to change to a Non O or see what an agent can do.

 

 

[hugocnx]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Leave the country, kill current permission of stay. Re-enter visa exempt. 

Do conversion to non o based on retirement at immigration. Then apply for annual extensions of stay. No need for insurance.

Or obtain the non o outside of Los. Simple.

But, you cannot foresee if Imm will close that loophole. Why actually are there two visa foptions for retirement.

[Rdrokit]

18 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Yes, but is it confirmed anywhere that OA extensions require insurance ,either by IO or by experience of expats? UJ can you confirm please?

I can confirm. Went to Korat Immigration for my 90 day and asked if I needed medical insurance when my renewal came due. They said yes I will need proof of medical insurance. I am on an O-A based on retirement and my next renewal will be my 12th. There is NO grandfathering.

[Capt Rob]

16 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Yes, but is it confirmed anywhere that OA extensions require insurance ,either by IO or by experience of expats? UJ can you confirm please?

Not specifically answering the original post, but recently on review my declined OA Visa dated 29th October, was validated without the requirement for medical insurance. My re-entry into Thailand was November 17th, I know of two other people had the same OA and entered ( CNX ) without issue also in November.

The larger issue now is how one will fare with an extension in 2020 ?

I plan to go that route but will not sign up for a almost worthless and expensive insurance cover.

[Tounge Thaied]

Rather than hold 800,000 baht in the bank that you can never use. You could add an additional 200,000 baht and purchase the 1,000,000 baht Elite Visa, that has no insurance requirement, that will last you 20 years. You are essentially paying for a hassle free, for the rest of your life, VISA. IMO, it is the best route to go at your age. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Tounge Thaied

[jimn]

2 hours ago, Tony45 said:

I am 74. O A visa extended 5 times for retirement. Just took out Pacific Cross. 90 000 baht premium and many exclusions including first 300 000 baht per year for three years for cardiac and other issues. It is a 90 000 baht ticket to get retirement extension.  Immigration laws give me no choice. I go today for next extension. Should be OK.

You obviously have money to throw away then. You could have left the country to get an O visa and then extended on that. Or you could have used an agent 13k here in Pattaya. Both options for a fraction of the 90k you have wasted and you will have to do the same next year.

[Chazar]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

A Pacific Cross agent told me you could apply up to age 76. 

 

At 74, I was told 81,000 baht per year, but first a quite extensive medical exam.

 

 

 

bend  over once for insurance and then again for the  immigration.........nice

[Chazar]

26 minutes ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Rather than hold 800,000 baht in the bank that you can never use. You could add an additional 200,000 baht and purchase the 1,000,000 baht Elite Visa, that has no insurance requirement, that will last you 20 years. You are essentially paying for a hassle free, for the rest of your life, VISA. IMO, it is the best route to go at your age. 

LISTEN  UP and  read their  terms..........they can change their  rules at anytime and  have to  follow  immigration......so today he buys his 1  million baht elite, tomorrow  immigration say  they want insurance for ELITE  also

[pookondee]

But now because of their age have been unable to get the MEDICAL INSURANCE.

What results did you get from the Immigration Officers. Given the Extension for a further 12 months or Refused. 

 

The issue really is:

Even if Insurance does take you up

 (at that age) who in their right mind is ok with being forced into possibly paying 300,000 baht for yearly cover of 400k??

 

It seems even when the rose coloured glasses come off, some still have a degree of permanent blinding.

 

After all, If you were to consider other countries restrictive visa requirements and minimum money outlay

(there are many a lot worse than Thailand)

you would simply put them in the

"out of the question" basket.

 

The adds on my page now changed from

"thailand long stay insurance"

to 

"Vietnam visa"

an easy hint to take.

 

 

[jimn]

Why many people on here think that the insurance requirement will be extended to an O visa is beyond me. The reason its required for an OA is because you get stamped in for 1 year, hence you require insurance for a year. With a Non O you get stamped in for 90 days. Yes I know it can be used for multiple entries for a year and can be converted to an extension of stay but it is primarily a 90 day visa. So why would you need 1 year insurance.

[Rdrokit]

6 minutes ago, jimn said:

You obviously have money to throw away then. You could have left the country to get an O visa and then extended on that. Or you could have used an agent 13k here in Pattaya. Both options for a fraction of the 90k you have wasted and you will have to do the same next year.

Medical insurance is not a waste as I had a motorcycle accident and spent 10 days in the hospital plus many physical therapy appointments and did not cost me anything as my Thai medical insurance picked up the complete bill.

[Rdrokit]

2 minutes ago, jimn said:

Why many people on here think that the insurance requirement will be extended to an O visa is beyond me. The reason its required for an OA is because you get stamped in for 1 year, hence you require insurance for a year. With a Non O you get stamped in for 90 days. Yes I know it can be used for multiple entries for a year and can be converted to an extension of stay but it is primarily a 90 day visa. So why would you need 1 year insurance.

An O visa based on marriage is a one year visa.

[david555]

5 minutes ago, jimn said:

Why many people on here think that the insurance requirement will be extended to an O visa is beyond me. The reason its required for an OA is because you get stamped in for 1 year, hence you require insurance for a year. With a Non O you get stamped in for 90 days. Yes I know it can be used for multiple entries for a year and can be converted to an extension of stay but it is primarily a 90 day visa. So why would you need 1 year insurance.

We are talking here in case of non o who you go extend to ret ext  …. so a 1 year stay each time , not the non O  3 month's keeping it to only 3 month .

Which is a minority here .

Edited December 12, 2019 by david555

[jimn]

1 minute ago, Rdrokit said:

An O visa based on marriage is a one year visa.

Read what I wrote. Its still  90 day visa then you have to extend at immigration or use as a basis for an extension of stay based on marriage. Essentially by itself an O visa based on marriage is not a 1 year visa.

[jimn]

6 minutes ago, david555 said:

We are talking here in case of non o who you go extend to ret ext  …. so a 1 year stay each time , not the non O  3 month's keeping it to only 3 month .

Which is a minority here .

I know that but because it is in its original form a 90 day visa in my opinion it will never fall into the insurance requirement

[jimn]

12 minutes ago, Rdrokit said:

Medical insurance is not a waste as I had a motorcycle accident and spent 10 days in the hospital plus many physical therapy appointments and did not cost me anything as my Thai medical insurance picked up the complete bill.

I said paying 90k was a waste of money not insurance. I have quality insurance from the UK at a fraction of that cost. May I just say you have a way of misinterpreting comments, is it your age?

[david555]

6 minutes ago, jimn said:

I know that but because it is in its original form a 90 day visa in my opinion it will never fall into the insurance requirement

I hope you are right in your opinion as many others hope so too with me I guess

[Rdrokit]

1 minute ago, jimn said:

I said paying 90k was a waste of money not insurance. I have quality insurance from the UK at a fraction of that cost. May I just say you have a way of misinterpreting comments, is it your age?

Not my age. 90k is not a waste if you are 75. That is a reasonable price at that age for Thai medical insurance. The cost of medical insurance in your home country is a moot point.

[pennine]

Perfectly articulated question which I'm sure applies to many of us, me included. Not without trepidation, I applied for my extension this week, including a letter from Pacific Cross that they don't insure over 75's, plus my overseas Medical Aid certificate, plus my savings book showing that I am able to fund a medical issue.

I have to go back on the 17th to get the result.

pennine

 

[david555]

14 minutes ago, pennine said:

Perfectly articulated question which I'm sure applies to many of us, me included. Not without trepidation, I applied for my extension this week, including a letter from Pacific Cross that they don't insure over 75's, plus my overseas Medical Aid certificate, plus my savings book showing that I am able to fund a medical issue.

I have to go back on the 17th to get the result.

pennine

 

interesting to know the outcome of that …, which I.O office ?

Probably they shall advice to change to Non "O"

Edited December 12, 2019 by david555

[Peter Denis]

3 hours ago, Go4er said:

I have been living in Thailand for almost 10 years now. Each year I have returned to the US for my annual physical, taxes, and to visit family. Each time I obtained a Non-OA long stay VISA at the Royal Thai Consulate in Los Angles. I am now 75 going on 76 (May) and cannot find any health insurance for my age in Thailand. I am planning another trip to the US in March 2020. I am looking at a Non-O VISA married to Thai this time and apply for extended stay based on marriage once I get back in Thailand. I have a documented retirement income in excess of 165,000 Baht per month but don’t have the 400,000 in the bank.  My wife has house book, Thai ID and Passport. Additionally, I have an adopted Thai son. What are my best options? Does anyone have some suggestions for me? Thanks in advance.

Being over 50+ years of age and married, you have many options when wanting to avoid or not being able to get the thai-approved health-assurance now required for extensions of stay for Non Imm OA Visas based on retirement.

1. Applying in your home-country > You can apply there for a Non Imm O Visa based on MARRIAGE

2. Applying in Thailand > When your OA extension of stay is due before leaving for your home-country, you can apply for an extension of stay based on MARRIAGE

3. Applying after re-entering Thailand > When arriving Visa-exempt or on a single-entry Tourist Visa, you can apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa based on RETIREMENT or based on MARRIAGE at your local IO.  In the last month of that 90-day Non Imm O Visa you can then apply at that same local IO for a 1 year extension of that Non Imm O Visa.

4. Applying in a neighboring country > You can apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa based on MARRIAGE or RETIREMENT at a thai embassy/consulate in a near-by country.  With that Visa you return to Thailand and in the last month of that 90-day Non Imm O Visa you can then apply at that same local IO for a 1 year extension of that Non Imm O Visa.

5. Applying for a MULTI Non Imm O Visa based on marriage > In Savannakhet, Laos and HCMC, Vietnam, you can apply for a Multi-Entry Non Imm O Visa based on MARRIAGE.  That specific Visa is valid for a full year, but you are required to exit Thailand every 90 days, which will then give you a new 90-days permission to stay.  You can get almost 15 months out of that Visa (by re-entering just before the Visa validity expires).

In all of the above cases there is NO need for health-insurance, so pick the one that is most convenient for you.

[AAArdvark]

1 hour ago, jimn said:

May I just say you have a way of misinterpreting comments, is it your age?

That was a really helpful comment which contributed massively to the conversation!

[chilly07]

Yes an O visa for marriage is for 90 days before extension for 1year based on financial requirements plus family support and investment in Thailand. An OA is for 1year based on retirement and without any financial requirements representing a much greater risk of default hence the change to 400k all year and 800k at extension for retirement. 400 in a bank PLUS 400 (worthless) insurance plus an additional 400 at extension is utterly excessive and ridiculous when non payment is down to the itinerant workforce needed to prop up the Thai economy and Tourists who also prop up the Thai economy. Coupled with the profits obtained through worthless insurance it is clear that Thailand expects to fleece a few expats to prop up the entire economy!! Ain't gonna work! 

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, jimn said:

Why many people on here think that the insurance requirement will be extended to an O visa is beyond me. The reason its required for an OA is because you get stamped in for 1 year, hence you require insurance for a year. With a Non O you get stamped in for 90 days. Yes I know it can be used for multiple entries for a year and can be converted to an extension of stay but it is primarily a 90 day visa. So why would you need 1 year insurance.

Many people use the term "visa" when they mean "extension." The feeling is that anyone applying for an extension based on retirement, regardless of the original visa they used when they first entered, will eventually have to have insurance.

 

some people may try to use non Imm O visas only, but I think most who get the non mm O in order to retire here plan to get the extension.

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, luckyluke said:

"It is a 90 000 baht ticket to get retirement extension"

-Tony45-

 

It seems indeed that now ca. 100000 will be the price to pay to get an extension for us elderly. 

 

The extra document needed will be called "Insurance";

but likely with no real value. 

Only if one INSISTS on continuing to extend the O-A entry! For heavens sake why would you do that and incur a 90,000 baht useless insurance bill? Let the extension expire, come back in Visa Exempt, or get a Non-Imm-O nearby and dump the O-A Extension and the requirement.

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Only if one INSISTS on continuing to extend the O-A entry! For heavens sake why would you do that and incur a 90,000 baht useless insurance bill? Let the extension expire, come back in Visa Exempt, or get a Non-Imm-O nearby and dump the O-A Extension and the requirement.

So true!  There are several options to escape the expensive and basically worthless thai-approved health insurance. 

And if you do not have already insurance, use the 90.000 THB to get a decent insurance policy which will provide far better coverage for way less money.

Note: Apart from the most sensible road outlined by Jacko45K, you could even consider switching to a 5 year Elite Visa, as the cost of that Elite Visa (500K) will be same or less than the money wasted on the ridiculous thai-approved insurance.

 

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Only if one INSISTS on continuing to extend the O-A entry!

I am a realist pessimist. 

 

I have an "O" and no need of insurance. 

 

But being 19 years in Thailand , I know that nothing is sure here. 

 

Paying 100000 is a possibility which I take in serious consideration.