O_A Extensions 75+ Based on Retirement ONLY.

[Sheryl]

52 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Both Lifestyle and Long Stay Visa brochures include the following remark (in small print towards the end):-

 

"The applicant must be Thai resident or reside in Thailand at least 6 months in 12 months period."

 

Assuming that all the other TGIA-approved insurers specify a similar requirement, therefore, it follows that those applying for non-OA visas in their home countries may well be faced with a Catch-22 situation in practice as regards compliance with the insurance requirement (unless, of course, they were somehow able to persuade a local insurer to sign the required certificate in their case).

 

@Sheryl - what do you think?

This is correct. All the Thai insurers require at least 6 months residency in Thailand.

 

So in addition to age and pre-existing conditions there are people ineligible for a local policy on that ground.

 

There are better visa options for someone spending less than 6 months a year here than either OA or in country extensions of stay, though

[sloperating]

On 12/12/2019 at 6:14 AM, travelerjim said:

I have learned from Pacific Cross that they will now consider applicants to age 80.

 

For O-A compliant health insurance policies.

 

Tj

This has been the case for quite some time but only for those insured prior to turning 75. The Manager of Pacific Cross, Pattaya, has confirmed this morning that, quote, unfortunately, we cannot insured the client who age over 75 years old (first entry), unquote.

 

But, even if cover is available up to age 80, the extension of stay outcome after age 80 remains unclear.

 

[Peter Denis]

4 hours ago, Old Croc said:

This is my concern about departing from a long term stay and risking refusal when coming back on a short stay visa or exempt.

When you previously stayed in Thailand on a long-term Non Imm Visa, WHY would there be any issue when exiting and returning to Thailand Visa-exempt or on a Tourist Visa?

'Serial' tourists suspected of working in Thailand or staying here long-term on Tourist Visas or Visa-exempt, can be refused, and the advice IO often gives them is to 'use the correct type Visa to stay in Thailand'.

So when you have been staying on an extension of an OA or O Visa (which are the correct Visa for long-stay) there will be absolutely NO problem when exiting and returning on a VE or Tourist Visa.  And even when queried about it, you can tell them truthfully that you need to do this in order to apply for a Non Imm O Visa at your local IO.

[moontang]

3 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

When you previously stayed in Thailand on a long-term Non Imm Visa, WHY would there be any issue when exiting and returning to Thailand Visa-exempt or on a Tourist Visa?

'Serial' tourists suspected of working in Thailand or staying here long-term on Tourist Visas or Visa-exempt, can be refused, and the advice IO often gives them is to 'use the correct type Visa to stay in Thailand'.

So when you have been staying on an extension of an OA or O Visa (which are the correct Visa for long-stay) there will be absolutely NO problem when exiting and returning on a VE or Tourist Visa.  And even when queried about it, you can tell them truthfully that you need to do this in order to apply for a Non Imm O Visa at your local IO.

It mostly applies to those who had working visas...I suppose some of them were O.  You could also be asked to show an outbound ticket.  Hopefully, we'll get some reports that people are simply stating converting to an O...  Remember, we are talking land borders, now.  There is a good reason why the daily runs are going to Myanmar, instead of Aranyaprathet.

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, sloperating said:

This has been the case for quite some time but only for those insured prior to turning 75. The Manager of Pacific Cross, Pattaya, has confirmed this morning that, quote, unfortunately, we cannot insured the client who age over 75 years old (first entry), unquote.

 

But, even if cover is available up to age 80, the extension of stay outcome after age 80 remains unclear.

 

Not sure what you mean.

 

Pacific Cross guarantees renewal to age 99.

 

Premiums go up as you age, of course.

[UKresonant]

8 hours ago, Sheryl said:

8 hours ago, OJAS said:

Both Lifestyle and Long Stay Visa brochures include the following remark (in small print towards the end):-

 

"The applicant must be Thai resident or reside in Thailand at least 6 months in 12 months period."

 

Assuming that all the other TGIA-approved insurers specify a similar requirement, therefore, it follows that those applying for non-OA visas in their home countries may well be faced with a Catch-22 situation in practice as regards compliance with the insurance requirement (unless, of course, they were somehow able to persuade a local insurer to sign the required certificate in their case).

 

@Sheryl - what do you think?

This is correct. All the Thai insurers require at least 6 months residency in Thailand.

 

So in addition to age and pre-existing conditions there are people ineligible for a local policy on that ground.

 

There are better visa options for someone spending less than 6 months a year here than either OA or in country extensions of stay, though

Yes, the 6 month thing cannot be a good thing for a new applicant in home country, that has not spent time here, or as some used the ME O-A, but Thailand was not their only destination throughout the year.

It would be very naughty ???? of the Embassy to be pushing the sale of something the new applicant will get nothing but a bit of paper and an entry on a database.

When I contacted PC in July, they were straight out with they did not think they could issue a policy, as I could not know if I would be here more than 6 months in any given 12 month period. PC were very helpful but to have a local policy, to run in addition to run in conjunction with my travel insurance does not seem practical. (Then there is the, what policy pays first, etc etc)

When will the first person with the compulsory insurance, having a go fund me, hit the news.

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by UKresonant

[sloperating]

On 12/17/2019 at 6:50 PM, Sheryl said:

Not sure what you mean.

 

Pacific Cross guarantees renewal to age 99.

 

Premiums go up as you age, of course.

I (and the manager, Pacific Cross, Pattaya) am saying that PC will only insure over-75s if they have existing cover - contrary to a previous post, they will renew but not commence cover. In the words of the PC Manager, "... we cannot insured the client who age over 75 years (first entry)".

My policy says it can be renewed up to age 90 (not 99) but also says they can decline to renew an extension at any age - so much for guaranteed renewability.

My reference to age 80 (an age point raised by an earlier poster) was in regard to extension of stay; meaning whenever insurance becomes unavailable, the question of renewing the extension of stay without insurance is raised. And no one seems to have an answer yet.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, sloperating said:

I (and the manager, Pacific Cross, Pattaya) am saying that PC will only insure over-75s if they have existing cover - contrary to a previous post, they will renew but not commence cover. In the words of the PC Manager, "... we cannot insured the client who age over 75 years (first entry)".

My policy says it can be renewed up to age 90 (not 99) but also says they can decline to renew an extension at any age - so much for guaranteed renewability.

My reference to age 80 (an age point raised by an earlier poster) was in regard to extension of stay; meaning whenever insurance becomes unavailable, the question of renewing the extension of stay without insurance is raised. And no one seems to have an answer yet.

I see.  Sounds like the policies through the Pattaya Expats Club may differ from regular individual policies as these do guarantee renewal to age 99. (They do not however protect against substantial premoum hikes).

 

Anyone needing insurance for visa purposes and planning to live out their lives in Thailand absolutely needs a policy with guaranteed lifetime (or at least age 99) renewal. This is why I only include such plans in the comparisan chart in the pinned topic in the health forum.

 

There is currently no exception or provision for people who are unable to obtain insurance because of age or whose policies end due to age...you would loose the right to stay here. Not something you want to contend with at an advanced age.

 

So either arrange to have a policy that guarantees renewals at premiums you expect to be able to pay till you die, get a different visa type, or change your long term plans is my honest advice.

[OJAS]

On 12/17/2019 at 11:36 AM, Sheryl said:

This is correct. All the Thai insurers require at least 6 months residency in Thailand.

 

So in addition to age and pre-existing conditions there are people ineligible for a local policy on that ground.

 

There are better visa options for someone spending less than 6 months a year here than either OA or in country extensions of stay, though

Sounds to me like the death knell is, in practice, now being sounded for the non-OA visa.

 

And the non-OX visa has not really taken off in practice.

 

And the non-O visa is no longer being issued on the grounds of being aged 50 or over these days by most Thai embassies and consulates away from the ASEAN region (the most notable exception of which I am aware being the London Embassy in the case of those in receipt of the UK State Pension).

 

All of which, when added up, means IMHO that the death knell is being sounded to retirement in Thailand by foreigners in the long term - unless, of course, other avenues for residing in Thailand (e.g. marriage to a Thai national) are open to them.

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by OJAS

[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

Sounds to me like the death knell is, in practice, now being sounded for the non-OA visa.

 

And the non-OX visa has not really taken off in practice.

 

And the non-O visa is no longer being issued on the grounds of being aged 50 or over these days by most Thai embassies and consulates away from the ASEAN region (the most notable exception of which I am aware being the London Embassy in the case of those in receipt of the UK State Pension).

 

All of which, when added up, means IMHO that the death knell is being sounded to retirement in Thailand by foreigners in the long term - unless, of course, other avenues for residing in Thailand (e.g. marriage to a Thai national) are open to them.

 

Yes, everyone is just a visitor and a Long Stay is only a year, so not very compatible with retirement. No new customers it would seem. Past customers have just been lucky.

The cabinet resolution about the health insurance just said folk that were over 50 are a problem, and did not make any reference about marriage as far as I could see.

Still no news these days, is when your waiting on more bad news... in the long term any time now...

[Tchooptip]

On 12/12/2019 at 10:44 AM, Tounge Thaied said:

Rather than hold 800,000 baht in the bank that you can never use. You could add an additional 200,000 baht and purchase the 1,000,000 baht Elite Visa, that has no insurance requirement, that will last you 20 years. You are essentially paying for a hassle free, for the rest of your life, VISA. IMO, it is the best route to go at your age. 

With a 1.000.000 Bhaht elite visa one do not need to keep 800.000 Bahts in a thaibank?

[ubonjoe]

36 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

With a 1.000.000 Bhaht elite visa one do not need to keep 800.000 Bahts in a thaibank?

It is not required.

[Tchooptip]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It is not required.

 Thank you for answering Sir, I was 75 years old last month, now I have to find the cleverest solution, I came here at 68 years old, stil convinced not long ago that I would have finished my life in this country in peace and tranquility. 

The few previous changes in the rules left me indifferent, this insurance obligation on the other hand destabilized me, but I will recover. Thank you again for your constant involvement in helping us all as you always do. 

[Tounge Thaied]

6 hours ago, Tchooptip said:

With a 1.000.000 Bhaht elite visa one do not need to keep 800.000 Bahts in a thaibank?

Right. Not required any longer. I think the only risk or downside to this VISA, that would need to be thoroughly investigated before you purchase, would be the future solvency of this VISA. I would want to know what the possible changes may be to the future terms and conditions of the VISA that may impact me in the future. I.E. will this VISA remain insurance free in the future. And of course, there may be no definitive answer to this. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Tounge Thaied

[Tchooptip]

1 hour ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Right. Not required any longer. I think the only risk or downside to this VISA, that would need to be thoroughly investigated before you purchase, would be the future solvency of this VISA. I would want to know what the possible changes may be to the future terms and conditions of the VISA that may impact me in the future. I.E. will this VISA remain insurance free in the future. And of course, there may be no definitive answer to this. 

  You are right 100%, that is why I hesitate, I have no longer any confidence in this government, when I see the changes they did recently and for example that the health insurance of our countries of origin is not acceptable is an absolute scam!

[muffy]

On 12/12/2019 at 4:45 AM, Goethe said:

The OP is clearly asking for reliable information from retirees who have recently applied for an extension of stay based on retirement, but who cannot purchase health insurance because they are over 70 (or 75) years of age. 

This question affects many people: Will Thai Immigration officials grant an extension of stay to farang who originally entered Thailand on a non-OA visa, but who are unable to purchase health insurance? Is there a consistent application of policy across Immigration Offices, or is it a lottery?

just renewed  at bkk , not asked about health insurance .

[Olmate]

7 hours ago, muffy said:

just renewed  at bkk , not asked about health insurance .

What was your original visa type please

[jacko45k]

7 hours ago, muffy said:

just renewed  at bkk , not asked about health insurance .

And I just read another post from someone saying their Retirement Ext on a Non-Imm-OA Permission was refused without insurance at CW. Are you sure you are on an O-A  .... or is this a random thing? 

[Martyp]

7 hours ago, muffy said:

just renewed  at bkk , not asked about health insurance .

Post like this are not helpful unless you give more detail. What is your visa/extension status? marriage or retirement or other? Which immigration office.

[SamMunich]

Just posted it in a similar topic here:
"... an O-A is for people, who do NOT leave the country every 90 days. So to avoid the insurance scam, it would make sense to go for a regular Non-Im O/M and leave the country every 89 days. Flying to Chiang Rai is easy, hop on a bus to Mae Sai and there cross over to Tachilek. Just get your stamps the same day and back to C.R. Have some Northern Food and the next day fly back and you're done. A nice excursion of 3 days. Or fly to Vietnam or to Singapore (2,5 hours).
Sounds better than an outrageous insurance bill."
So if you are 75 or older and still fit, the "O" without the "A" might be a sensible solution...

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, SamMunich said:

Just posted it in a similar topic here:
"... an O-A is for people, who do NOT leave the country every 90 days. So to avoid the insurance scam, it would make sense to go for a regular Non-Im O/M and leave the country every 89 days. Flying to Chiang Rai is easy, hop on a bus to Mae Sai and there cross over to Tachilek. Just get your stamps the same day and back to C.R. Have some Northern Food and the next day fly back and you're done. A nice excursion of 3 days. Or fly to Vietnam or to Singapore (2,5 hours).
Sounds better than an outrageous insurance bill."
So if you are 75 or older and still fit, the "O" without the "A" might be a sensible solution...

An even simpler solution to avoid the bogus health-insurance scam, is to exit Thailand (to 'kill' your Non Imm OA - retirement Visa), and return VisaExempt.  Then apply in the first week of your return at your local IO for a 90 days Non Imm O - retirement Visa (application must be done minimum 15 - some IOs require 21 - days before expiry of your permission to stay from that VE-entry).  In the last month of that 90 days Non Imm O - retirement Visa, apply for a 1 year extension of stay at that same local IO.  The requirements and conditions for extension of stay of an OA - retirement Visa and an O - retirement Visa are exactly same, except that the latter does NOT require health-insurance.

In case someone is interested > I compiled a comprehensive roadmap to switch from a Non Imm OA - retirement Visa to a Non Imm O - retirement one, addressing all issues and options.

It provides more detail on how to embark on the the steps outlined above.

Just PM me, if you'd like to receive a copy.

[Lim Yuan Hai]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 9:41 AM, Tony45 said:

I am 74. O A visa extended 5 times for retirement. Just took out Pacific Cross. 90 000 baht premium and many exclusions including first 300 000 baht per year for three years for cardiac and other issues. It is a 90 000 baht ticket to get retirement extension.  Immigration laws give me no choice. I go today for next extension. Should be OK.

Does your policy cover 3 years?
Btw, one said he purchased from PC and he have waited for 6 weeks but still did not get it. how long did it take to get your policy after applying and after premium being paid?  

My extension of non-OA will be expired in about 4 weeks’ time, worst, now is festive season. I do not know it if I purchase from PC, whether I can get the required documents needed by IO within 4 weeks’ time.

Thank you

[RocketDog]

On 12/12/2019 at 10:44 AM, Tounge Thaied said:

Rather than hold 800,000 baht in the bank that you can never use. You could add an additional 200,000 baht and purchase the 1,000,000 baht Elite Visa, that has no insurance requirement, that will last you 20 years. You are essentially paying for a hassle free, for the rest of your life, VISA. IMO, it is the best route to go at your age. 

That is assuming that Immigration, which has ultimate control over the Elite Visa program offered by a Thai State Owned Enterprise, does not change the rules. You could be left holding that 20 visa and still have insurance required with no chance of a refund. 

 

The 5 year Elite @ 500,000฿ seems a reasonable compromise since at my age of 70 the worthless insurance premium only has to be 100,000/yr to make the Elite a wash. However, Elite has no guarantee of the terms of agreement or a guarantee of automatic extension of stay each year. The perk of an agent doing your 90 report is also a sham because they only do it in CW. 

 

The only hope that I have is that they will not change the rules for a Elite before they have exhausted every form of money extraction from the other visa types. 

If I could truly gain peace of mind for 5 years the cost would be worth it to me. 

 

That's the hell of the situation now. Immigration can change the rules of the game at any time, and if they want you to lose then they can make it so. 

 

I still doubt that the authorities are bent on forcing long stay people out but I also believe the insurance requirement is simply a way to milk retirees and put money into the insurance companies. 

[RocketDog]

On 12/12/2019 at 11:09 AM, jimn said:

You obviously have money to throw away then. You could have left the country to get an O visa and then extended on that. Or you could have used an agent 13k here in Pattaya. Both options for a fraction of the 90k you have wasted and you will have to do the same next year.

To be clear : you are stating that using an agent in Pattaya would eliminate the insurance requirement? 

 

I must admit to being skeptical of this. 

[RocketDog]

On 12/12/2019 at 11:18 AM, Rdrokit said:

Medical insurance is not a waste as I had a motorcycle accident and spent 10 days in the hospital plus many physical therapy appointments and did not cost me anything as my Thai medical insurance picked up the complete bill.

Please inform us regarding the company, your age, and the annual premium cost. 

Thanks

[Chazar]

On 12/12/2019 at 12:15 PM, pennine said:

I have to go back on the 17th to get the result.

And the result is?

[Sheryl]

21 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

That is assuming that Immigration, which has ultimate control over the Elite Visa program offered by a Thai State Owned Enterprise, does not change the rules. You could be left holding that 20 visa and still have insurance required with no chance of a refund. 

 

The 5 year Elite @ 500,000฿ seems a reasonable compromise since at my age of 70 the worthless insurance premium only has to be 100,000/yr to make the Elite a wash. However, Elite has no guarantee of the terms of agreement or a guarantee of automatic extension of stay each year. The perk of an agent doing your 90 report is also a sham because they only do it in CW. 

 

The only hope that I have is that they will not change the rules for a Elite before they have exhausted every form of money extraction from the other visa types. 

If I could truly gain peace of mind for 5 years the cost would be worth it to me. 

 

That's the hell of the situation now. Immigration can change the rules of the game at any time, and if they want you to lose then they can make it so. 

 

I still doubt that the authorities are bent on forcing long stay people out but I also believe the insurance requirement is simply a way to milk retirees and put money into the insurance companies. 

 

I very much doubt there will be any special condition put on Elite visas per se regarding health insurance. They are nto that many people to beigin with and nto viewed as likely to be unable to pay their bills,. What may happen is that Elite holders  might  be included under whatever is eventually decided to be done regarding tourist visas. Hard to imagine that would entail a mandatory Thai policy but one never knows. I would never have expected them to come up with what they did for OAs.

 

The OA  insurance requirement was requested by the Health Ministry to deal with a very genuine problem. It went badly astray in the course of design and implementation, as other entities including the Office of Insurance Commission and private insurance companies got into the act. It was not Immigration's idea to have this and no one entity concocted it as a scheme to "milk money" from people. It is just very, very badly designed and there proved to be impediments to doing what the Health Ministry originally envisioned, such as allowing foreign policies and options for those who are uninsurable.

[Rdrokit]

50 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Please inform us regarding the company, your age, and the annual premium cost. 

Thanks

Thai Health Insurance Public Company Limited ( 800,000 baht Healthy Wealthy policy), 72 years old, 74,000 baht/yr.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

Please inform us regarding the company, your age, and the annual premium cost. 

Thanks

Accident insurance and medical insurance are different beasts. Even under a medical insurance, accidents are usually a separate category. 

[jimn]

8 hours ago, RocketDog said:

To be clear : you are stating that using an agent in Pattaya would eliminate the insurance requirement? 

 

I must admit to being skeptical of this. 

Of course it does there are many people doing it