Activist Thunberg denounces "creative PR" in climate fight

[brokenbone]

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Mildura is only on the fringe of the real Australian interior. Broken Hill and Alice Springs are more appropriate sites for measurements.

Has it occurred to you the single reading quoted in 1906 may itself be in error due to a thermometer being placed in the sun for journalistic licence? Or that multiple, statistically significant readings in this century may be more precise and accurate?

 

in case you didnt notice, it was specified it was in the shade.

it can also be the case that many new stations are badly placed

in urban areas with asphalt around, only adding noise to the overall picture .

here is another record from 1896

with 127 F / 52 C from south wales australia, (in the shade, no asphalt enhanced)

which begs the question: was it really that much co2 in south wales then ?

or is it plausible that it can be hot without man ?

[stevenl]

42 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

both articles states 124 F in the shade, which is 51 c,

and it may well happen that the latest record is a result of a badly placed thermometer

in urban area surrounded by asphalt, a problem these days

for some of the readings.

here is another with 127 F / 52 c 1896 from south wales australia,

there wasnt any asphalt around to distort readings back then.

Sure thing, temperature readings were much more reliable in the 19th century than they are now 

[brokenbone]

16 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Sure thing, temperature readings were much more reliable in the 19th century than they are now 

two decimal thermometer improvement does not negate urban asphalt surrounding impact

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

two decimal thermometer improvement does not negate urban asphalt surrounding impact

Lol, you really think 19th century readings are more reliable than today's.

That says more than enough.

[brokenbone]

On 12/12/2019 at 10:19 PM, Lacessit said:

 

Meantime, don't buy  any real estate in Bangkok. A city only 1 metre above sea level doesn't strike me as a good long-term investment. Bet the financial advisers are not saying that.

there are two tide gauges in bkk region,

one shows rapid sea rise and the other very little.

one of the tide gauges was built on fill dirt in a swamp,

the other on solid ground.

the gauge built on fill dirt in a swamp project flood by 2050,

the one on solid ground project flood by year 8000 (western counting)

not saying it is, but it could be that the alarmists mixed

up sinking station with rising sea level,

it wouldnt be the first time they got it 180 degree wrong

 

this is, btw, a direct analogy to the issues of thermometer placement

in urban surroundings these days, just swap swamp/asphalt/urban

depending on what you are trying to measure,

its going to give false readings either way you cut it

 

EDIT By Crossy.  Graphs sourced here 

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_global_station.shtml?stnid=600-041

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

there are two tide gauges in bkk region,

one shows rapid sea rise and the other very little.

one of the tide gauges was built on fill dirt in a swamp,

the other on solid ground.

the gauge built on fill dirt in a swamp project flood by 2050,

the one on solid ground project flood by year 8000 (western counting)

top one is sinking

[brokenbone]

17 minutes ago, nauseus said:

top one is sinking

youre just ruining our panic-party, party pooper pooping all over anxiety, how dare you ?

 

on a more serious note, it brings up a problem that has emanate

lately. your typical climate scientist would combine both data

to formalize it, and present an undeniable upward trend,

this has been done in historical temperature record,

while the obvious logical way would be to dismiss poor data altogether.

this illustrate how sh!t data from sh!t stations are, sometimes

with sinister intent, used to mess up history and predictions,

and humanity would be a whole wide world better off

with fewer high quality stations,

its stuff like this that causes misinformation & hysteria

[canuckamuck]

Poll Finds Most People Would Rather Be Annihilated By Giant Tidal Wave Than Continue To Be Lectured By Climate Change Activists

[nauseus]

18 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

youre just ruining our panic-party, party pooper pooping all over anxiety, how dare you ?

 

on a more serious note, it brings up a problem that has emanate

lately. your typical climate scientist would combine both data

to formalize it, and present an undeniable upward trend,

this has been done in historical temperature record,

while the obvious logical way would be to dismiss poor data altogether.

this illustrate how sh!t data from sh!t stations are, sometimes

with sinister intent, used to mess up history and predictions,

and humanity would be a whole wide world better off

with fewer high quality stations,

its stuff like this that causes misinformation & hysteria

I'm serious.

[car720]

23 hours ago, samran said:

The list is BS. But I doubt if facts were ever a strong point of yours. 
 

From memory the Philippines has less than half a dozen coal fired power stations. Two or three have been approved but whether they even get built remains to be seen given the distribution network they have there. 
 

Coal is now expensive compared with LNG and renewables are competitive. 
 

The Australian plants are uneconomical, old and past their use by date. 
 

Back to your angry old man Facebook pages for more false posters like that then...

I am not sure that it was meant to be taken seriously.

Try getting out of the other side of the bed tomorrow.

[car720]

9 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

have met many Swedes, not uncommon that they are stubborn and pretty full of themselves

 

I have recently checked 3 different sources with statistical information re actors and salaries

in Sweden, 2 of them based on data from both the governments statistics unit and

from employer oranisations

 

I'll change may earlier wording; the salaries are pretty low actually

and

there is no reason to think that opera singers enjoy significantly better renumeration

 

enjoy your superior knowledge

 

 

I think it was a Swede that said, "all love is free at a price".  

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 12:42 AM, snoop1130 said:

“I still believe the biggest danger is not inaction, the real danger is when politicians and CEOs are making it look like real action is happening when in fact almost nothing is being done apart from clever accounting and creative PR,” she added.

She's correct there, but it's because no one outside the bubble of climate change religion believes in it, IMO. Too afraid to come out openly, they just do nothing while pretending to do something.

 

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 12:42 AM, snoop1130 said:

“To stay below 1.5 degrees we need to keep the carbon in the ground.”

Yet no one can prove that, and I'm pretty sure that keeping the carbon in the ground from here on would consign most of the world's people to starvation. How does little miss knowitall think farmers grow food these days? Plough horses are in short supply now.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Take a look at what mass tourism has done to Halong Bay.

A symbol of overpopulation. Anyone that wants to think about it knows that the cause of pollution is humanity. As population increases, so does pollution, ergo the simplest way to solve the problem is to stop population rise, and reduce population in the future.

Yet no one in the climate alarmist camp is touting sterilisation as a good thing for the believers to do. Wonder why?

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You think Obama or his heirs won't have sold off the seaside property before 2100? At a handsome profit? It's called kicking the can down the road.

The dismal science has a central assumption economic growth can go on indefinitely. It's the mantra of all politicians. Logical nonsense, because it is only recently the environmental and social costs of economic growth have started to be taken into account. The barges that trundle New York's waste out into the Atlantic will only stop when the sea starts to stink - or maybe not even then. Take a look at what mass tourism has done to Halong Bay.

Entropy is at work, and we need to get clever. 

Re your point about Obama's hot property. Neither he nor his heirs are likely to get a decent deal from its resale except from buyers unaware of the sea level scare or dyed-in-the-wool deniers!

 

Your views on the undesireability of ongoing economic growth based primarily on the use of fossil fuels is shared by Cory Morningstar, who actually demonstrates how the biggest polluters have hijacked the climate activist movement to (to quote a phrase in one of your earlier emails) ensure "business as usual" for the foreseeable future. Plus, would you believe, a additional business and fat profits from fourth industrial revolution based around finding "green" solutions to the problems they have created!

 

I totally agree regarding the need urgently to tackle pollution of the air, sea and land - which kills and maims millions of us every year. Unfortunately, the funds needed to ameliorate this problem are being mopped up by our preoccupation with a distant global warming catastrophe that might not materialise.

[Grumpy John]

On 12/11/2019 at 7:48 PM, rabas said:

China is by far the worlds' greatest CO2 emitter, particularity from coal. US and Western countries are both much lower and declining relative to China.

 

One country and person in particular would benefit greatly by shutting down Western oil oil production while ignoring global warming. Russia and its richest man Putin.

 

-- Russia wants to sell as much oil as possible at the highest price possible.

-- Russia would also benefit heavily from a warming climate. One of Russia's greatest weaknesses is food production because it is far north, and it relies heavily on Ukraine, the Soviet Union's traditional break basket.

-- Russia has no coast lines threatened by sea level rise.

-- Russia also has no warm water ports and its navy has trouble projecting power from cold water ports.

-- Russia wants to unlock vast oil reserves in the Arctic which is hampered by sea ice.

-- Russia could hold summer Olympics!

 

CO2 is not the problem.  It's some of the other chemicals that emanate from the coal fired power stations.   India and Prickistan are just as bad but on a smaller scale compared to China.  

[NanLaew]

13 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Oh dear, rational discussion being subsumed by pejoratives. You've already stated you were part of the fossil fuel industry, so what's wrong with me taking that into account?

Because it is IRRELEVANT... but you started it.

 

13 hours ago, Lacessit said:

In case it has escaped your notice, renewable energy in Australia is killing the gold-plated energy networks, and they are squealing like stuck pigs. Not enough profit, despite the best attempts of governments to prop them up.

With a reported half of Australia's power coming from renewable sources just over a month ago, that indeed is no mean feat. Meanwhile, oil and gas exploration offshore West Australia, which sensibly hasn't placed all it's eggs in the renewable basket, is increasing for which I, for one, am truly grateful.

 

13 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I dare say in my working career I contributed far more to advancing knowledge than you have.  ...

Allegedly. But apparently there's a sizeable amount of methane going about where the source is unaccounted for. Now you've given us a clue.

[bendejo]

 

 

[NanLaew]

10 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

I don't see them planning to evacuate The Netherlands or NYC. ...

In your lifetime you mean?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

In your lifetime you mean?

WE shouldn't get too stressed about it all. We might go back to riding horses and eating seaweed to save the planet, only to have a decent sized asteroid kill us all. Nowhere is it said that life is fair.

[Krataiboy]

6 hours ago, stevenl said:

Lol, you really think 19th century readings are more reliable than today's.

That says more than enough.

One of the problems is that many measurement devices originally located in wide open spaces are now affected by the heat from urban developments such as housing, airports, car parks etc. 

 

 

[brokenbone]

2 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

One of the problems is that many measurement devices originally located in wide open spaces are now affected by the heat from urban developments such as housing, airports, car parks etc. 

 

 

this video explains it better then what can be done in text alone,

and also goes into the issue of normalizing data

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFPRMV2p5cY

 

[car720]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

She's correct there, but it's because no one outside the bubble of climate change religion believes in it, IMO. Too afraid to come out openly, they just do nothing while pretending to do something.

 

Yet no one can prove that, and I'm pretty sure that keeping the carbon in the ground from here on would consign most of the world's people to starvation. How does little miss knowitall think farmers grow food these days? Plough horses are in short supply now.

So true.  Mind you we wouldn't need plough horses with aquaponics. 

[Lacessit]

10 hours ago, brokenbone said:

two decimal thermometer improvement does not negate urban asphalt surrounding impact

You seem to be confusing the concepts of precision, accuracy, and calibration, not to mention statistical principles.

Convince me a thermometer manufactured prior to 1906 will be more precise and accurate, and calibrated to show the true temperature, as one manufactured today. Or that the quantity and distribution  of readings was more comprehensive in that time.

I will be interested to witness someone trying to prove a negative.

https://www.theage.com.au/environment/weather/like-a-furnace-massive-heatwave-could-roast-australian-records-20191213-p53jps.html

 

 

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You seem to be confusing the concepts of precision, accuracy, and calibration, not to mention statistical principles.

Convince me a thermometer manufactured prior to 1906 will be more precise and accurate, and calibrated to show the true temperature, as one manufactured today. Or that the quantity and distribution  of readings was more comprehensive in that time.

I will be interested to witness someone trying to prove a negative.

https://www.theage.com.au/environment/weather/like-a-furnace-massive-heatwave-could-roast-australian-records-20191213-p53jps.html

Yes, incredible that TVF members are now claiming temperature measurements in the 19th century were more accurate than they are now.

[Lacessit]

17 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, incredible that TVF members are now claiming temperature measurements in the 19th century were more accurate than they are now.

Maybe that's because they are still living there.

[RickBradford]

It's very noteworthy that Greta was told to "denounce creative PR" when the whole manufacturing of Greta, and parading her around with world leaders, is almost certainly the most egregious piece of creative PR to come out of the whole climate debate.

 

Her handlers took a schoolgirl, and a troubled one at that, who knows nothing about climate science or the political and economic realities of today's world, and tried to position her as a world savior. It doesn't get any more creative than that.

 

But that's the Green/Left all over. Always accuse the other side of what you are guilty of yourself.

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, brokenbone said:

this video explains it better then what can be done in text alone,

and also goes into the issue of normalizing data

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFPRMV2p5cY

 

Thanks for that. I like the way Heller routinely hoists climate change alarmists on the petard of official data, which is all too often manipulated to fit the apocalyptic narrative. 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, RickBradford said:

It's very noteworthy that Greta was told to "denounce creative PR" when the whole manufacturing of Greta, and parading her around with world leaders, is almost certainly the most egregious piece of creative PR to come out of the whole climate debate.

 

Her handlers took a schoolgirl, and a troubled one at that, who knows nothing about climate science or the political and economic realities of today's world, and tried to position her as a world savior. It doesn't get any more creative than that.

 

But that's the Green/Left all over. Always accuse the other side of what you are guilty of yourself.

How do you know that, or are these the usual inferences made when attacking a messenger? How do you know she knows nothing  about climate science?

The usual cheap shot of "troubled" when Aspergers are nothing of the sort, simply different. They have a lot of positive traits which you could do well to emulate.

So what are your solutions, or do you just want to take potshots from the sidelines?

But that's the right wing for you, business as usual. About 50 odd billionaires have as much wealth as the bottom 50% of the world population, and we wouldn't want to upset that applecart.

[Scott]

A post with an inappropriate meme has been removed.  

 

[brokenbone]

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You seem to be confusing the concepts of precision, accuracy, and calibration, not to mention statistical principles.

Convince me a thermometer manufactured prior to 1906 will be more precise and accurate, and calibrated to show the true temperature, as one manufactured today. Or that the quantity and distribution  of readings was more comprehensive in that time.

I will be interested to witness someone trying to prove a negative.

https://www.theage.com.au/environment/weather/like-a-furnace-massive-heatwave-could-roast-australian-records-20191213-p53jps.html