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Scotland must be given new independence vote - Sturgeon


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6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Why do you think that we are uniquely incapable of managing our own affairs, a situation that is normal for a significant number of small Nations, who cope just fine.

 

I don't understand your point about oil agreements. What do you think will need to be changed about existing licenses and why?

 

The EU has already clearly signalled that Scotland would be welcome back in the fold. Despite your own unfortunate doubt about our abilities, they don't see is as either too wee or too poor.

The EU has not signalled any such welcome.  Quite the opposite.

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1 minute ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

The EU has not signalled any such welcome.  Quite the opposite.

Well we are discussing what may be, but I can show ample positive indications of an EU favourable to Scotland rejoining - such as the words of Herman van Rompuy

 

"I think there is a change, yes, because for a lot of people they are looking at what Scottish people are in favour of. They want to stay in the European Union and at the same time they are prevented to stay in the European Union because there is this Brexit case, and there is not much sympathy for the Brexit case in the European Union, not among the leaders and not among the men and women in the street."

 

How about Spanish Foreign Minister Joseph Borrell:

 

Asked if a Sanchez government would accept Scotland’s EU application to join if Scotland left the United Kingdom and fulfilled the requirements of the UK constitution, Borrell said: "Why not? If they leave Britain in accordance with their internal regulation, if Westminster agrees ... If Westminster agrees, why should we be against it?"

 

But I am always interested to hear all sides of the debate. Perhaps you can link to those negative EU signals to which you referred?

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42 minutes ago, DefaultName said:

Well, I'm proud Scots, but I don't want this.  On a nationalist level yes, but economically, we can't do it.  People keep going on about oil money, but there are legal agreements in place about that, what are we going to do, throw them away and nationalise it?  That wouldn't go down with the community of nations that we'd be a part of!

 

As to staying in the EU, not possible as I understand things, we'd have to leave with the rest of the UK, then get independence, then apply to join - and why would they want us?  We'd be a net taker, not a net giver, and they have plenty of those already.

 

 

So, attractive idea, but no.

Absolutely right.

 

Plus as a small country amongst 27 others you'd be less independent then you are currently as one of 4 countries that you share a massive history with (good and bad) and huge cultural ties.

 

As I said before, if Scotland wants to leave I wouldn't oppose that but I think it would be a huge mistake and 55% of proud Scots appear to realize that.

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Just now, JonnyF said:

Plus as a small country amongst 27 others you'd be less independent then you are currently as one of 4 countries that you share a massive history with (good and bad) and huge cultural ties.

You're a spoilsport. Think of the entertainment value the negotiations over simple things like the customs border and the currency are going to provide

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10 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Absolutely right.

 

Plus as a small country amongst 27 others you'd be less independent then you are currently as one of 4 countries that you share a massive history with (good and bad) and huge cultural ties.

 

As I said before, if Scotland wants to leave I wouldn't oppose that but I think it would be a huge mistake and 55% of proud Scots appear to realize that.

That's pretty much how I see it too.

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14 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

Well, as a convinced European I would be very happy to see Scotland joining the EU and I am not alone in thinking this. 


The main reason is that this nation is friendly and favorable to US.


Besides, the unique personality in the world of Scotland and the Scots brings advantages which go far beyond the immediate economic considerations.

Read  and see how important Scotland was and how strong sided with Europe eg France ….always more bound to the European continent 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Years'_War

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1 hour ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

If Scotland left the UK it could take up to 14 years for the Europeans to accept them! Aye! And the wee bampots wantnto keep stirling! The scotch wont get another referendum.

Stirling is bang in the centre of Scotland. No matter what happens the Jocks are extremely unlikely to let Stirling become separated from the rest of the Scotland.

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3 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

Well, as a convinced European I would be very happy to see Scotland joining the EU and I am not alone in thinking this. 


The main reason is that this nation is friendly and favorable to US.


Besides, the unique personality in the world of Scotland and the Scots brings advantages which go far beyond the immediate economic considerations.

I very much doubt whether these sentiments (for that is what they are, sentiments) will be sufficient to overcome the hard realities of meeting the economic requirements for joining the EU.

 

As for the whole concept of independence, well, if the majority of Scots feel that the UK is no longer for them, and the advocates of independence manage to persuade them, and win a referendum on independence, then fair enough. Off you jolly well go! As an Englishman however, I think that you should make a clean break, particularly in terms of a currency ( you will have to accept that if you wish to continue to use the Pound Sterling then you will have no control over it). You will have to assume responsibility for funding all pensions and the like for your people, and there should be no funds transferred from England to make up any shortfalls. Sorting that out will no doubt take a couple of years, and only then, when all those matters have settled, I suggest will you be able to begin the process of joining the EU.

 

I should imagine (I may be wrong) that England and Wales will be significantly better off without Scotland. That is of course only my opinion, and not based on any deep understanding of the economics, but then neither, I suspect, is much of the argument for Scottish economic viability as an independent country.

 

What I am sure of is that as the cries for independence become shriller and more insistent, then the reaction of many/most Englishmen (whose connection with Scotland is rather becoming more tenuous) will be fair enough, off you jolly well go.

 

Much the same arguments apply to the future of Northern Ireland - although they will also have to persuade The Republic of Ireland to take them on, economically, politically and socially. Good Luck with that!

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7 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

Stirling is bang in the centre of Scotland. No matter what happens the Jocks are extremely unlikely to let Stirling become separated from the rest of the Scotland.

I was equally confused for a while - I suspect that SunnyBoy 2018 was meaning sterling. Maybe the 'scotch' got the better of him...

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10 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Times change, promises turn out to be worthless, people realise that we are at the mercy of the decisions made by the country next door. It is way past time we got off our knees and took a stand for a future that is actually what Scots want, not what England wants.

What's all this 'on your knees'? The tail has been wagging the dog since B-liar gave everyone except the ???????????????????????????? a Parliament 20 years ago & the ???????????????????????????? are getting fed up with it and have finally woken up as seen yesterday.

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3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

What's all this 'on your knees'? The tail has been wagging the dog since B-liar gave everyone except the ???????????????????????????? a Parliament 20 years ago & the ???????????????????????????? are getting fed up with it and have finally woken up as seen yesterday.

As I have said many times before, I have absolutely no desire to stand in the way off the aspirations of the English, but by the same token I don't want that my country is forced to take a path it doesn't want to take simply because we are smaller in number.

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7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

As I have said many times before, I have absolutely no desire to stand in the way off the aspirations of the English, but by the same token I don't want that my country is forced to take a path it doesn't want to take simply because we are smaller in number.

But you want to stay in the EU....? You sure are inconsistent in your arguments.

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11 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

As I have said many times before, I have absolutely no desire to stand in the way off the aspirations of the English, but by the same token I don't want that my country is forced to take a path it doesn't want to take simply because we are smaller in number.

Unfortunately there's no other option RR. ???????????????????????????? was part of a single country that joined the ???????? as a member state in the 70s and no amount of jiggery-pokery will change the manner in which ???????? leaves the EU next year.

Edited by evadgib
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6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Unfortunately there's no other option RR. ???????????????????????????? was part of a single country that joined the ???????? as a member state in the 70s and no amount of jiggery-pokery will change the manner in which ???????? leaves the EU next year.

Oh sure - we are being dragged against our clearly expressed will - but once independent from the UK, the people of Scotland can consider whether they wish to rejoin as an independent country.

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