Living in Thailand on an elite visa

[khunPer]

On 12/13/2019 at 11:07 AM, digeldoop5 said:

My question in short, is anyone here living in Thailand using the Elite Visa and not having any primary residence in another country? If so, did this get you in trouble at any point? Would that make me theoretically a "homeless" nomad and live as a tourist for 20 years? How would I pay tax on my capital gains and co if I live on a tourist visa!?

To my knowledge a number of so-called digital nomads use the Elite Card method to stay in Thailand, but the keep the online work under the radar (don't speak).

 

The nomads I've heard about work for foreign clients only, and all financial transfers are in foreign countries (off shore). You can keep a registered company in your home country for invoicing and payment transfers, or had registered a company limited in UK with a low company tax rate on profits.

 

Staying in Thailand for 180 days or more you are in principle tax-resident of Thailand. Without a work permit, you cannot have any work income in Thailand, so your personal income tax would be zero, if you don't have foreign income, you transfer to Thailand the same year as earned, and declare for income taxation.

 

Depending of your home country's tax-rules, you might be limited taxable in your home country. I'm from Denmark, and our tax-system might not the that different from the German system, but you need to check.

 

You will need to de-register your permanent address, and might be able to register the Thai address (I am, and it's a benefit). You will NOT be "homeless" nomad, as long as you choose to stay 180+ days in one country.

 

In my home country I'm only income taxable from direct work income or pension income, the latter might also be taxable in Thailand. Fee of other origin – which includes fee for being a board member in a company, or fees for individual work that is not permanet employment, like for example author fees, but no royalties – are tax free in my home country, but taxable in my country of residence. If you don't transfer the money to Thailand the same calendar year as earned, but wait to the following calendar year, or later, the money is considered "savings" and tax-free to transfer. Capital gain from stock holdings and other assets are in my (Danish) case tax free in my home country, and again, if not transferred to Thailand the same year as "gained", also legally tax free in Thailand.

 

If you register for income tax in Thailand and get a TIN (Tax Identification Number), and make an annual tax-return form, you can annually obtaining a certificate of tax-residence. With that certificate you might have additional benefits from your home country (Germany):

Any royalties will be taxed with Thai royalty tax rate in your home country.

Any stock dividends could be taxed with Thai 10 percent dividend tax instead of your home country's withheld dividend tax, might need a request for tax-return and receive the tax-difference later.

 

Your will need to read the Thai-German double taxation agreement for specifications, it can be found here. And the Thai tax-rules for income tax can be found here.

 

Depending of from where one originates, i.e. which home country, there might be fine tax-benefits staying in Thailand 180 days or more a year; a reason why Elite Card can easily be worth the fee for some...????

[wasabi]

45 minutes ago, wasabi said:

I am still debating between the 5 and 20 year. I realize on an annual basis the 20 year visa is the best deal if one stays in Thailand the majority of those 20 years. The difference between the 5 and 20 year visas in USD is about $40,000. (For the Family Excursion choice) I have done very well investing and am confident, but of course not 100% certain, I could double that extra 40,000 savings if I got the 5 year visa; in 5 years time when the next 5 year visa is due but once the money is committed to the Thai visa obviously it can't be invested, other than the fact the visa itself is a sort of investment since it coincidentally saves you about 40k over 20 years vs four 5 year Family Excursion visas.

 

If I don't at least double the 40k in 5 years and renew the Thailand Elite on a 5 year basis which comes at a higher annual premium that  40k savings of the 5 year visa would begin to decay and eclipse the money I saved upfront so it is a question how confident I am that I can invest and at least double that money vs just plunking down the cash and benefiting from the lower annual rate of the 20 year eventually eclipsing the benefit of saving 40k right now. 

 

There also is the question how confident am I that I will spend most of my time in Thailand over the next 20 years. I'd say it's likely but impossible for me to be sure. I can more easily predict I will be here for 5 more years.

If it's not clear this math is based on two 20 year TE visas for my wife and I at a cost of 2 million THB or a Family Excursion 5 year pair of TE visas at 800K THB.

[khunPer]

On 12/13/2019 at 11:57 AM, digeldoop5 said:

In Europe (at least in Germany) I am not allowed to keep my primary residence here if I am not actually staying here, which results also me not having to pay my income tax here.

 

Another concern is my Passport, if it were to expire, can I just get a new one at the Embassy in Bangkok despite it not being an emergency?

Passport is no problem, you just apply for a new passport from the German embassy in Bangkok little more than six month before you present passport expire – six month in case you are travelling abroad, a number of countries don't allow entry with a passport of shorter validity period than six month.

 

What others (digital nomads) I know about do – apart from changing their European home country address to their Thai address, and thereby de-register – is to keep an off-shore company (limited, or personal if in Germany) for all business income transactions. Thereby any tax rules are fulfilled – also a TIN or VAT number for billing – and profit can be taken out in a number of ways, split for lowest personal income taxation as a mix of work income, fees, and dividends.

 

Check the possibility of a personal owned company in Germany as living abroad, outside EU. If similar rules to neighboring Denmark, only v.a.t. is reported and paid, whilst taxation is in the country of residence. As I mentioned before, you need to study both the double taxation agreement between Germany and Thailand, and you home country's tax regulations.

[Fairynuff]

10 hours ago, looking for LIFE insurance said:

I can also sell my visa to another expat which they can use for life.

I had no idea there was a secondary market in TE visas. How and where are they bought and sold?

[kurtmartens]

On 12/14/2019 at 6:07 AM, ThaiBunny said:

Because they will send you SMS, in which case you mean a mobile phone number? T-Mobile has a fairly basic service that doesn't cost much which should meet your needs. Otherwise I've friends here who sign up for Vonage for a landline number

Might already be an answer, but yes it is likely for the SMS.  Which leaves VOIP out of the question.  I keep my American number with Google Fi now and just swap out the SIMs when I need to do anything with my US bank that involves getting a PIN via SMS.

 

 

[Jaggg88]

20 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

I had no idea there was a secondary market in TE visas. How and where are they bought and sold?

Only the older TE visas are transferable. The owner can transfer to another individual at a cost of 400,000 bht and is valid for 30 years. Obviously you will have to negotiate a price with the owner. All the original perks are still available to the new owner. The newer 5/20 year TE visas are not transferable.

[wasabi]

15 hours ago, Jaggg88 said:

Only the older TE visas are transferable. The owner can transfer to another individual at a cost of 400,000 bht and is valid for 30 years. Obviously you will have to negotiate a price with the owner. All the original perks are still available to the new owner. The newer 5/20 year TE visas are not transferable.

Is there a marketplace or classified section on any website we're interested parties can find more information about these transferable elite visas?

[Fairynuff]

19 hours ago, Jaggg88 said:

at a cost of 400,000 bht

Given that the owner will want a decent price too, it’s hard to see how any real value can be achieved