Long Term Viability of Living in Thailand

[nickt092]

Guys,

What are your thoughts on living in Thailand long term?  I have been going to Thailand for the past 5 years on exempts and TR Visas for about 6 months during the year.  When I first started the trips the idea was to make Thialand home.  I found a GF and over all things have been good.  The overall show stopper is Thailand immagration now and in the future.  While I haven't been called out by IM, as an early 30yr traveler, I expect there to be changes in Thailand policy over time.  With that in mind my plan was to: 

 

Buy the Thai Elite 20 yr Visa

At Age 50 switch over to the Non-OA

 

The issue is there has been so much change over the past 5 years in their policy including:

Rejecting certififed embassy letters showing bank statements

TM30

Holding of 800k funds in Thai Accounts

Health Insurance

90 day reporting

 

How do you all do it?  From the US, I have traveled to other countries have have world exposure.  The only other country that I have found this behavior is China.  While china requires 24hour reporting they don't even have that 90 reporting BS.  I'm actaully scared <deleted> lles to set up a domicile in Thailand.  Its like if the winds change direction, your ass is out, or fined, or jailed!  Even just moving around having to refile a TM30 is a hassle.  I was looking at the online regestration and as a renter, I can't fill it out without a supporting landlord. 

 

Can I just show up at the IM Office with a TM30 signed in hand and say "here you go, reporting as ordered, do with it what you want with the paper?"  It seems they want additional details?  How do you guys file this?  Have most landlords been supportive of this?

 

It seems that Thailand has chosen good guys out too at this point as comparing them to their neighbors.... well they are just more welcoming.  It sucks for myself and the GF.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by nickt092

[neeray]

Curious! Did you just discover TVF? Or, why did you wait so long to partake?

[nickt092]

2 minutes ago, neeray said:

Curious! Did you just discover TVF? Or, why did you wait so long to partake?

Long time reader, just didn't think it was applicable to me.  I was thinking the situation would either fix itself or I would just leave.  I'm leaning towards the later just on the bases of "Go where you are treated best."  But idk, am i missing something?  Does thailand offer something that justifies their actions?

[PatOngo]

19 minutes ago, nickt092 said:

Long time reader, just didn't think it was applicable to me.  I was thinking the situation would either fix itself or I would just leave.  I'm leaning towards the later just on the bases of "Go where you are treated best."  But idk, am i missing something?  Does thailand offer something that justifies their actions?

Thailand has gone to **** in the past 5 years as a result of the POB and there seems to be NO relief on the horizon! Sure, there are better places to be. Even the locals are more than p!$$ed off with the situation as seen by the thousands that turned out just last night to protest the status quo, if the locals are peed off, what hope is there for farang!

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by PatOngo

[4MyEgo]

55 minutes ago, nickt092 said:

The issue is there has been so much change over the past 5 years in their policy including:

Rejecting certififed embassy letters showing bank statements

TM30

Holding of 800k funds in Thai Accounts

Health Insurance

90 day reporting

Immigration accept other forms of proof of funds entering into your account on a monthly basis, best you read up on that.

 

TM30 from what I have heard of late has been relaxed, depending on which immigration office you use, i.e. only required when you return from overseas, and it's easy to do on line, best part of 5 minutes at most.

 

800,000 baht in the bank shouldn't be an issue, just leave it there for once and for all.

 

Yes things have changed since the Junta took over 5 years ago, but things will change back when the Thai's learn to step up to the plate and protest, they are starting to feel the pinch and also seeing that the tourists are going elsewhere.

 

I have been here for 4 years now, and it's not that bad if you don't let it rattle you, and if your as organised as me and others and have a plan B and C, the world is your oyster.

 

Elite visa 5 years at your age, you should know by then if your up for it, and if so either extend another or marry a Thai girl and get your marriage visa, most importantly only invest as much as your prepared to walk away with, allow her access to your finances (any woman) and you might just end up regretting you ever did, i.e. your finances are your power, take your power away and life will become unbearable as others have unfortunately found out.

 

Health insurance is only required for the O/A visa at this point in time, I can't see it spreading to the retirement or marriage visas unless they are hell bent on forcing all of us out.

 

90 day reporting is a single form, again 5 minutes and can be done online.

 

It all becomes part of the process and if your organised it's water off a duck's back.

 

[ukrules]

If you must come for a long period, are under 50 and plan to stay long term then I suggest the Thailand Elite membership.

 

If you're not so sure on Thailand and might not stay for the full term of the Elite membership then maybe don't bother with Thailand at all, just go to a different country and it will work out cheaper. Depends what you're looking for I guess.

 

If I was considering moving to Asia right now then I would quite possibly go elsewhere, however I've been here for a while already so I went with the TE membership when they started tightening the screws and throwing people out a few years back.

 

TM30 is a non issue, you don't even need to do that or the 90 day reports yourself.

Edited December 15, 2019 by ukrules

[nickt092]

19 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Immigration accept other forms of proof of funds entering into your account on a monthly basis, best you read up on that.

 

TM30 from what I have heard of late has been relaxed, depending on which immigration office you use, i.e. only required when you return from overseas, and it's easy to do on line, best part of 5 minutes at most.

 

800,000 baht in the bank shouldn't be an issue, just leave it there for once and for all.

 

Yes things have changed since the Junta took over 5 years ago, but things will change back when the Thai's learn to step up to the plate and protest, they are starting to feel the pinch and also seeing that the tourists are going elsewhere.

 

I have been here for 4 years now, and it's not that bad if you don't let it rattle you, and if your as organised as me and others and have a plan B and C, the world is your oyster.

 

Elite visa 5 years at your age, you should know by then if your up for it, and if so either extend another or marry a Thai girl and get your marriage visa, most importantly only invest as much as your prepared to walk away with, allow her access to your finances (any woman) and you might just end up regretting you ever did, i.e. your finances are your power, take your power away and life will become unbearable as others have unfortunately found out.

 

Health insurance is only required for the O/A visa at this point in time, I can't see it spreading to the retirement or marriage visas unless they are hell bent on forcing all of us out.

 

90 day reporting is a single form, again 5 minutes and can be done online.

 

It all becomes part of the process and if your organised it's water off a duck's back.

 

By chance, what does Thailand's divorce laws look like.  Personally I have sworn off marriage based on today's western family courts.   What does a divorce look like in thailand?  Not saying planning for a divorce but imho there is always risk for that.

[Skallywag]

1 hour ago, nickt092 said:

19 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I have been here for 4 years now, and it's not that bad

 

1 hour ago, nickt092 said:

 

How do you all do it?  From the US, I have traveled to other countries have have world exposure.

While I haven't been called out by IM, as an early 30yr traveler,

World exposure, early 30's, been here 4 years.  You were either born with a silver spoon or became rich quickly. 

Either way you sound like you can afford an Elite Visa.   

Not how most on here "all do it"  as we have retirement visas and are twice your age or more 

[4MyEgo]

11 minutes ago, nickt092 said:

By chance, what does Thailand's divorce laws look like.  Personally I have sworn off marriage based on today's western family courts.   What does a divorce look like in thailand?  Not saying planning for a divorce but imho there is always risk for that.

I have heard its usually a 50/50 split, that said, the last thing I would want is to end up in a court.

 

Been with mine 13 years and if we ever split, I would just walk away, she would end up with about 10% of my worth, the other 90% is back in the old country and I have a prenuptial there in place, not that she would even attempt to get any, she is that kind of gal, that said, if she ever did, it would be moved out with a touch of a keyboard key.

Edited December 15, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

10 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

been here 4 years.  You were either born with a silver spoon or became rich quickly. 

Born into a poor family, worked every available opportunity, studied as a mature student as I left school at 16 working as an apprentice mechanic, then a butcher for 6 months, and found out they weren't for me, railways for 10 year various clerical positions, then real estate for 25 years, no silver spoon here, some good timed investments over the course which makes living here comfortable. 

[cyril sneer]

better to just not bother with the TM30, nothing happens if you don't do them

[nickt092]

25 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

World exposure, early 30's, been here 4 years.  You were either born with a silver spoon or became rich quickly. 

Either way you sound like you can afford an Elite Visa.   

Not how most on here "all do it"  as we have retirement visas and are twice your age or more 

Sure and agreed.  But I view the thai elite visa as a bribe and while i could swallow my bride and just pay.  It still puts you on the hook for tm30 and 90 reports.  So with that in mind for people that live in thailand, does the 90 day reports just become habit or do you hate/regret entertaining this concept?

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, nickt092 said:

So with that in mind for people that live in thailand, does the 90 day reports just become habit or do you hate/regret entertaining this concept?

It is a trivial effort..... I do it online, and when accepted, quickly put a reminder in my email for the next one. The chore is the annual Extension renewal, as I live a little far from the office. 

[Martyp]

I've been coming here and living here since 2015 as a retiree (original O-A visa). I am from the US. From what I read on social media it does appear that there has been significant change to Thai immigration rules in the last 5 years. Of course, I (we) never lived by the old rules. No one can predict the future but that includes your future. If you are in your 30's then it is just as improbable that you can predict what you will be doing and what you will want 30 years from now. It is fine to have a goal, Elite visa > retirement, but you need to be realistic and flexible.

 

Generally speaking, if you have sufficient retirement resources than Thailand is a reasonable a choice as any. A lot of discussion revolves around affordability. Some around culture. Some about freedom (relative to your home country). Take the Thai immigration changes you mentioned:

 

Rejecting certififed embassy letters showing bank statements - Thai Immigration haven't rejected the income affidavits. The 4 countries themselves decided not to give them out anymore presumably because they were ask to better verify the claimed income. Other countries continue to give them out.

 

TM30 - This program is not good but for most immigration offices this has been considerably relaxed. You only need to report after international travel.  I do think most landlords are cooperative but that is just my opinion. Online registration is now easier from what I hear. In many places you can report yourself and in the end the fines are not excessive.

 

Holding of 800k funds in Thai Accounts - This is what I mean by having sufficient retirement resources. I just leave the 800,000 in the bank all the time. It has made yearly extensions very easy. Otherwise there is the monthly income requirement which is a pretty low income 65,000 baht/month ($2,200 USD/month) but still a stretch for some people.

 

Health Insurance - still early days on this one but if you arrive on a non-immigrant O visa there is no insurance requirement. Decide for yourself if you want to speculate on whether this requirement will be applied more widely.

 

90 day reporting - I don't know why this is hated by so many people. It's pretty easy to do and is free. If you travel outside the country at all then you don't have to do it as much (or at all). Yes, it is a trip to the immigration office.

 

Note also, that immigration changes are not unique to Thailand. They change in the US where it is a hugely divisive issue. US immigration rules can be harsh as well. There are trade-offs. I like what one person wrote once: That getting into a western country (as a long stay expat) is very hard but once you are in they pretty much leave you alone. Getting into Thailand is easy but they do check up on you pretty often.

 

It sounds to me that you are overreacting but maybe a 5 year Elite visa, if you can afford it, would be a good start. 

[nickt092]

3 minutes ago, Martyp said:

I've been coming here and living here since 2015 as a retiree (original O-A visa). I am from the US. From what I read on social media it does appear that there has been significant change to Thai immigration rules in the last 5 years. Of course, I (we) never lived by the old rules. No one can predict the future but that includes your future. If you are in your 30's then it is just as improbable that you can predict what you will be doing and what you will want 30 years from now. It is fine to have a goal, Elite visa > retirement, but you need to be realistic and flexible.

 

Generally speaking, if you have sufficient retirement resources than Thailand is a reasonable a choice as any. A lot of discussion revolves around affordability. Some around culture. Some about freedom (relative to your home country). Take the Thai immigration changes you mentioned:

 

Rejecting certififed embassy letters showing bank statements - Thai Immigration haven't rejected the income affidavits. The 4 countries themselves decided not to give them out anymore presumably because they were ask to better verify the claimed income. Other countries continue to give them out.

 

TM30 - This program is not good but for most immigration offices this has been considerably relaxed. You only need to report after international travel.  I do think most landlords are cooperative but that is just my opinion. Online registration is now easier from what I hear. In many places you can report yourself and in the end the fines are not excessive.

 

Holding of 800k funds in Thai Accounts - This is what I mean by having sufficient retirement resources. I just leave the 800,000 in the bank all the time. It has made yearly extensions very easy. Otherwise there is the monthly income requirement which is a pretty low income 65,000 baht/month ($2,200 USD/month) but still a stretch for some people.

 

Health Insurance - still early days on this one but if you arrive on a non-immigrant O visa there is no insurance requirement. Decide for yourself if you want to speculate on whether this requirement will be applied more widely.

 

90 day reporting - I don't know why this is hated by so many people. It's pretty easy to do and is free. If you travel outside the country at all then you don't have to do it as much (or at all). Yes, it is a trip to the immigration office.

 

Note also, that immigration changes are not unique to Thailand. They change in the US where it is a hugely divisive issue. US immigration rules can be harsh as well. There are trade-offs. I like what one person wrote once: That getting into a western country (as a long stay expat) is very hard but once you are in they pretty much leave you alone. Getting into Thailand is easy but they do check up on you pretty often.

 

It sounds to me that you are overreacting but maybe a 5 year Elite visa, if you can afford it, would be a good start. 

Much appriciated.   Thanks.  I have the tendency to over think ????

[Martyp]

7 minutes ago, nickt092 said:

So with that in mind for people that live in thailand, does the 90 day reports just become habit or do you hate/regret entertaining this concept?

I do my 90-day report at CW. I'm retired and have the time to take a half day to go there. There is a 3 week window in which to plan the day of reporting. The reporting is using fairly quick - about an hour wait. I actually don't mind CW. My wife often accompanies me. There is usually a nice market on the main floor. We each lunch and shop. Someday I may register to do it online.

 

If you have difficulty going to an immigration office then I can understand the reluctance. If you are here working I can see this as a difficulty too.

[bkk6060]

There are too many who cannot adapt to rule and changes that occur.

And, do not have the proper funds to enjoy a great life and stay.

And, spend the majority of their day complaining about all of it and are not happy.

If this fits your profile, I suggest you not come for long term.

 

[Momofarang]

If you don't have family here, just go and live in Peru. Arequipa and Cusco, have ten times more to offer than any Thai city.

[steve187]

op the only ones to affect you on an elite are

TM30, when return from another country, or just don't bother

90 day reporting, can be done on line ( maybe with an elite entry) or get elite to do it for you

if you are living here full time and not working what else would you do with your day everyday that would stop these minor trips to immigration.

newbie first posts are always suspect

[nickt092]

8 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

There are too many who cannot adapt to rule and changes that occur.

And, do not have the proper funds to enjoy a great life and stay.

And, spend the majority of their day complaining about all of it and are not happy.

If this fits your profile, I suggest you not come for long term.

 

It's not so much funding.  Its market analysis.  I do enjoy thailand but when their neighbors are offering residency status (malaysia) and passports (phillipines if I'm not mistaken) or 1 yr visa (vietnam) it pisse me off to see thailand demanding such a high price or opportunity cost for their visa or elite visa.

 

And that not even considering Latin american countries.  Hahaha those.  Same timezone and 90 days visa exempt with easy long term options.  It just gets too much to say why thailand.

 

Not to instigate something.  Just have a gf pushing for something stable.  I have always told here 1 day at a time due to thailand immigration as I dont plan on getting married (western culture has ruined marriage).  At the same time it's like what does thailand offer... compared to other bidding countries.  Sounds silly sure but with no ties and countries offering long term solutions in tropical climates it's a hard choice.  Gf in thai vs green pastures if you will.

[nickt092]

8 minutes ago, steve187 said:

op the only ones to affect you on an elite are

TM30, when return from another country, or just don't bother

90 day reporting, can be done on line ( maybe with an elite entry) or get elite to do it for you

if you are living here full time and not working what else would you do with your day everyday that would stop these minor trips to immigration.

newbie first posts are always suspect

Long time reader first time poster.  I think this topic is pretty much solved.  Tm 30s are none issue.  Just do 90 reports.  Run with till issues occur then reassess. 

[neeray]

36 minutes ago, nickt092 said:

i could swallow my bride

Please don't swallow your bride !

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, neeray said:

Please don't swallow your bride !

I thought the reverse usually applied

[TaoNow]

If OP and others have to ask themselves "Why Thailand?" then they probably shouldn't plan on settling down here.

 

In other words, it shouldn't take you long to discover whether Thailand is right for you. 

 

Just be sure you get out of the tourist towns and expat ghettos to see what the real Thailand has to offer.

 

At OP's age, Thai language ability would be a requirement for successful adaptation to the Thai people and culture.

[RichardColeman]

Plan for me - live here from say 50-70 (55 now) and then go back to UK in old age or whenever when health needs kick in. I still own my old house and travel back every 9 months. Thailand for me seems great for people aged 50-70 currently and then drops off dramatically after that if your health plays up

[Orton Rd]

1 hour ago, cyril sneer said:

better to just not bother with the TM30, nothing happens if you don't do them

Except no extension for you unless you pay the fine for not doing it, in most offices now.

[GalaxyMan]

The people who seem to have issues with Thailand are those who are economically marginal. If you have the funds, it's really not that big a deal. All countries have their foibles. It's really a matter of what you enjoy. Thailand is simply fantastic if you don't let the nonsense that really doesn't affect you get in the way. The people, food, weather, and culture are all wonderful and stimulating. The neighboring countries that make it easier...IMHO, their food doesn't cut it and they are decidedly third world compared to Thailand, which is relatively above that, especially for a farang with the funds to live here. Vietnam and Laos are decidedly communistic with everything that that implies. Malaysia is Muslim with everything that that implies. Cambodia is an extremely corrupt, oppressive military dictatorship with its head firmly up China's butt, even worse than ..... can't say it here. Haven't yet heard anything that I'd describe as 'good' about the Philippines except that it's easy to get in and stay, which smacks at desperation on their part.

 

At your age, you have nothing to lose by trying it in Thailand for a while, seeing how it goes for you. Everyone is different. One size does not fit all. You seem to have your head on your shoulders the right way. No matter how long you live, life is short. Don't waste it by not grabbing at every opportunity that you can. Nothing worse than regrets for not having tried.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, Orton Rd said:

Except no extension for you unless you pay the fine for not doing it, in most offices now.

I got an impression the pressure was off. Now the flavour of the month is Non-OA and Insurance. 

[Orton Rd]

Got fined last year for not having done it, it will be some other infraction next

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Got fined last year for not having done it, it will be some other infraction next

Got to keep them tills ringing. I have been fortunate that Jomtiem do not pursue this with me.