Long Term Viability of Living in Thailand

[NCC1701A]

40 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

A man with a plan, I like that.

i am having a great time here in thailand. and if there is one thing i do have it is a plan.

[Ron jeremy]

2 hours ago, Catoholic said:

LOL .... there is a lot you can tell about someone who is worried about the living after they've died.... and even more about someone who is worried about a few Thai baht...

A few Thai baht?..... $800 k is a few baht? I'm still waiting for a reply on this, what happens to this money when u die?

id hate to be the sibling trying to get it back to the real world!

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, Ron jeremy said:

A few Thai baht?..... $800 k is a few baht? I'm still waiting for a reply on this, what happens to this money when u die?

id hate to be the sibling trying to get it back to the real world!

 

Forget siblings. Just get a Thai wife and the money with move swiftly and seamlessly into the Thai economy.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, nickt092 said:

I found a GF and over all things have been good.  The overall show stopper is Thailand immagration now and in the future.  While I haven't been called out by IM, as an early 30yr traveler

Do like most of us; work till old enough to get retirement extension, save loads, at 50 get Non O based on retirement. Whatever you do, don't marry her in the meantime.

[holy cow cm]

If you want to marry her then marry her. Otherwise get the Elite Visa or otherwise pull out and go somewhere else. It is not smooth as silk here anymore, but is a bit getting rough as sandpaper. I am stuck as have a life with my family. If I did not have a family here I would probably go restart in Vietnam.. Going back to live in the USA is just not where I want to live. USA is an ugly pit.

[lkv]

22 hours ago, nickt092 said:

But idk, am i missing something?  Does thailand offer something that justifies their actions?

No.

[Martyp]

4 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

A few Thai baht?..... $800 k is a few baht? I'm still waiting for a reply on this, what happens to this money when u die?

id hate to be the sibling trying to get it back to the real world!

I had a friend who had 800,000 deposited in Kasikorn bank but he never made the move here. He filled in a stack of forms from the bank but was unsuccessful getting the money transferred to the US. On my first holiday trip to Thailand he gave me the forms and asked that I go to Kasikorn to ask about this. Of course, I didn’t speak Thai but the Kasikorn bank official spoke a little English. She took the forms and was gone for about 10 minutes. When she returned she said everything was OK and that the money would be transferred. The next day my friend in the US called me and said that he got the money. This experience with Kasikoorn was the reason I chose Kasikorn for my bank when I moved here.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Martyp

[steve187]

22 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Got fined last year for not having done it, it will be some other infraction next

this has been news for sometime now,

if you need to visit immigration do a tm30 if not then don't,

you did it the other way need to visit immigration and don't do it

[sunnyboy2018]

23 hours ago, nickt092 said:

Sure and agreed.  But I view the thai elite visa as a bribe and while i could swallow my bride and just pay.  It still puts you on the hook for tm30 and 90 reports.  So with that in mind for people that live in thailand, does the 90 day reports just become habit or do you hate/regret entertaining this concept?

The 90 day report is a breeze. Simply not an issue. Its just a few minutes 3 or 4 times a year

[Guest]

I have been here almost 30 years. Studied Thai, got a job, then retired. Of course immigration rules have changed, they do in most countries. Overall living here isn't a problem if you can and do follow the rules, and be respectful. 

Personally l think there is far too much scaremongering on this site.

 

[Seligne2]

If I were in my early-30s and considering Thailand I would be much more concerned about our little climate emergency and ecosystem collapse than immigration. There are some models that predict that Thailand (and much of SE Asia) will be uninhabitable just on the basis of heat/humidity (wet bulb 35 degrees). Couple that with the rate at which Thailand/ASEAN are despoiling the environment (Mekong dams, etc.) while ignoring wealth inequalities does not bode well for the future.

[dcnx]

On 12/15/2019 at 6:00 AM, nickt092 said:

Buy the Thai Elite 20 yr Visa

At Age 50 switch over to the Non-OA

 

The issue is there has been so much change over the past 5 years...

Imagine the change in 20 years.

 

You are planning the visa change from Elite to non OA based on current rules. 20 years from now you can count on the financial requirements to be much higher than they are now and possibly even a different age requirement. What if the age is moved to 60 and you need 2 million baht locked up in a Thai bank, will you be able to do it then? 
 

Of course, you’re only 50 at this point. Let’s say you meet the requirements at 50 but you don’t at 70. Then what?

 

One thing is for certain, you can’t count on anything here and they WILL catch you off guard with changes you can’t predict. 
 

IMHO Thailand is a terrible choice for long term stay for this reason. They won’t hesitate to pull the rug out from under you. 
 

Unless you’re going to apply for Permanent Residency or Citizenship, Thailand is a huge gamble.

 

You would be better off taking the money you’re going to spend for the Elite and buying residency in a more welcoming country that doesn’t have you living on quicksand until the day they make you leave or until the day you die.

[dcnx]

21 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

the sum total of my interaction with immigration is 2.5 hours a year.

retired. not married. 800k money in the bank 24/7. zero problems with immigration. could not be easier. 

That’s how it always is until the day it isn’t. 

[Martyp]

33 minutes ago, Seligne2 said:

If I were in my early-30s and considering Thailand I would be much more concerned about our little climate emergency and ecosystem collapse than immigration. There are some models that predict that Thailand (and much of SE Asia) will be uninhabitable just on the basis of heat/humidity (wet bulb 35 degrees). Couple that with the rate at which Thailand/ASEAN are despoiling the environment (Mekong dams, etc.) while ignoring wealth inequalities does not bode well for the future.

Wow. I’m all for living ecologically responsibly but climate change is not like an earthquake, typhoon, or tsunami. Thailand is not going to be wiped off the face of the map. Maybe much of Bangkok and half of Florida but for someone in their 30’s you can reasonably expect to be able to plan to avoid sea level rise and simultaneously ask whether the Thai immigration system will be hospitable to expats.

 

It must be hard being 30 these days. Obviously us baby boomers, having lived through the Cold War (an actual immediate crisis), had nothing to fear when facing the future.

[Martyp]

13 minutes ago, dcnx said:

Imagine the change in 20 years.

 

You are planning the visa change from Elite to non OA based on current rules. 20 years from now you can count on the financial requirements to be much higher than they are now and possibly even a different age requirement. What if the age is moved to 60 and you need 2 million baht locked up in a Thai bank, will you be able to do it then? 
 

Of course, you’re only 50 at this point. Let’s say you meet the requirements at 50 but you don’t at 70. Then what?

 

One thing is for certain, you can’t count on anything here and they WILL catch you off guard with changes you can’t predict. 
 

IMHO Thailand is a terrible choice for long term stay for this reason. They won’t hesitate to pull the rug out from under you. 
 

Unless you’re going to apply for Permanent Residency or Citizenship, Thailand is a huge gamble.

 

You would be better off taking the money you’re going to spend for the Elite and buying residency in a more welcoming country that doesn’t have you living on quicksand until the day they make you leave or until the day you die.

When you are in your 30’s predicting the future 30 years hence is a gamble no matter where you are. 

[kingofthemountain]

On 12/15/2019 at 6:11 AM, nickt092 said:

But idk, am i missing something?  Does thailand offer something that justifies their actions?

No

they do it 

just because they can

[marke985]

37 year old from the USA here.  I spent most of the last 5 years in SE Asia, with about 80% of the time in Thailand.  Back in March I was denied entry and sent back to Philippines. (Where I flew in from).

 

Like you, had a girlfriend.  Stayed with her family and called her village home.  Even joined the local soccer/football club and got to know more people in the village.

 

Decided to buy the 20 year Elite Visa.  I have had been having 2nd thoughts ever since.  Right now I'm fine with it, but if the environment keeps changing I feel what I like about Thailand so much will diminish and in the future and I'll move on and be out 1,00,000 baht.

 

Dealing with immigration when I was denied entry, showed me they don't care about what the law says and they do what they want.  They are a completely dysfunctional organization and they will have the ultimate say over you if you choose to stay.  That is something that just doesn't sit well with people like me.

 

Also, as an American, I feel it is even harder for us than Europeans to deal with some of the everyday living situations that arise once we decide to make Thailand our home.  We are used to a customer is always right, the govt works for us attitude.  Pretty much the opposite here.

 

I'm still upset about my experience with Bangkok Bank from Yesterday so my post may seem a bit negative. 

 

(I found out I was being charged 200 more baht for wire transfers from my USA bank account and was paying 20 baht for ATM withdrawals using my Bangkok Bank card.  While, not a lot of money, Bangkok Bank website showed different fee amounts.  I also received different information when I called their customer service representative and sat with a banker while 3 staff members went back and forth on the correct fees as they all had different numbers.

 

Their inability to tell me something simple like how much an incoming wire transfer fee or why sometimes I get charged atm withdrawal fees and other times info not frustrates me as I have so little faith in their organization now.  (I have a lot more sympathy for those who keep the 800K in for retirement.

 

Bangkok bank is the only bank that would allow me to open an account since I do not work in Thailand, so I can't do the American thing and leave and switch banks.  In the USA we are so used to having so many options for everything, that the case here.

 

However, under the current climate I still prefer Thailand over the USA, but I have a lot of 2nd thoughts about South America.  During my 5 years of Visa runs I met quite a few Americans who were leaving SE Asia for South America.  Biggest reason for them was they could buy land and had most of the same rights as the locals.

 

Just my two cents.

 

[Momofarang]

On 12/15/2019 at 7:57 AM, nickt092 said:

while i could swallow my bride

Even Thai ladies aren't that demanding.

[Martyp]

1 hour ago, marke985 said:

37 year old from the USA here.  I spent most of the last 5 years in SE Asia, with about 80% of the time in Thailand.  Back in March I was denied entry and sent back to Philippines. (Where I flew in from).

 

Like you, had a girlfriend.  Stayed with her family and called her village home.  Even joined the local soccer/football club and got to know more people in the village.

 

Decided to buy the 20 year Elite Visa.  I have had been having 2nd thoughts ever since.  Right now I'm fine with it, but if the environment keeps changing I feel what I like about Thailand so much will diminish and in the future and I'll move on and be out 1,00,000 baht.

 

Dealing with immigration when I was denied entry, showed me they don't care about what the law says and they do what they want.  They are a completely dysfunctional organization and they will have the ultimate say over you if you choose to stay.  That is something that just doesn't sit well with people like me.

 

Also, as an American, I feel it is even harder for us than Europeans to deal with some of the everyday living situations that arise once we decide to make Thailand our home.  We are used to a customer is always right, the govt works for us attitude.  Pretty much the opposite here.

 

I'm still upset about my experience with Bangkok Bank from Yesterday so my post may seem a bit negative. 

 

(I found out I was being charged 200 more baht for wire transfers from my USA bank account and was paying 20 baht for ATM withdrawals using my Bangkok Bank card.  While, not a lot of money, Bangkok Bank website showed different fee amounts.  I also received different information when I called their customer service representative and sat with a banker while 3 staff members went back and forth on the correct fees as they all had different numbers.

 

Their inability to tell me something simple like how much an incoming wire transfer fee or why sometimes I get charged atm withdrawal fees and other times info not frustrates me as I have so little faith in their organization now.  (I have a lot more sympathy for those who keep the 800K in for retirement.

 

Bangkok bank is the only bank that would allow me to open an account since I do not work in Thailand, so I can't do the American thing and leave and switch banks.  In the USA we are so used to having so many options for everything, that the case here.

 

However, under the current climate I still prefer Thailand over the USA, but I have a lot of 2nd thoughts about South America.  During my 5 years of Visa runs I met quite a few Americans who were leaving SE Asia for South America.  Biggest reason for them was they could buy land and had most of the same rights as the locals.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Your story illustrates what I said a while back in this thread. Few people at my age (63) can look back at themselves in their 30’s and could have predicted they would be where they are now. The math makes sense to use an Elite visa to bridge under 50 to over 50 but, as many have pointed out before me, don’t invest more in Thailand than you are willing to lose. Life changes. People change. Values can change. Change is the constant in life.

[kingofthemountain]

4 hours ago, marke985 said:

Bangkok bank is the only bank that would allow me to open an account since I do not work in Thailand, so I can't do the American thing and leave and switch banks.

You should try Kasikorn

of course it helps if one of your Thai friend

with already an account in the bank come with you.

 

To work in Thailand it's not a mandatory requirment to open a bank account

just a dodgy excuse used by few local banks which for some reasons don't want you.

 

With an elite visa you shouldn't have any problem to open a bank account

have you contacted the Thai elite visa program about your concern?

It's one of their benefits offer on the internet site

https://www.thailandelite.com/at-your-service/card/elite-ultimate-privilege-membership?locate=en&popup=false

Edited December 17, 2019 by kingofthemountain

[gessi2000]

9 hours ago, Martyp said:

Your story illustrates what I said a while back in this thread. Few people at my age (63) can look back at themselves in their 30’s and could have predicted they would be where they are now. The math makes sense to use an Elite visa to bridge under 50 to over 50 but, as many have pointed out before me, don’t invest more in Thailand than you are willing to lose. Life changes. People change. Values can change. Change is the constant in life.

I absolutely agree with you!!!

 

Don't invest or spend more money than you are happy to loose in Thailand!

 

I am from Germany, travelling to Thailand since 18years and I am now in the mid 40s. Until 7-8 years ago I wanted to stay and live in TH but that changed a lot. I own a Condo, have Thai driving licenses and a bank account but never considered to get a Thailand Elite Visa.

Need to say that my Condo is in Pattay and it really depends on the location you spend or wanna spend as well of course. I don't stay with a Thai lady nor do I have a gf so for me the decision not returning would be easy however it is not.

 

So I made my decision to not invest or leave anything more than my Condo and motorbike over there and I can afford loosing that and my life still goes on. However the situation changed continuously since I travel there and I was also refused to reenter Thailand while leaving via land border to Lao being told only 2 land entries per Calendar Year are allowed. That was around 6 years ago I think and that seemed to have been a new regulation at this time. Hard to keep updated with that but if you wanna stay for longer than a yearly 30d tourist trip you have to be informed.

 

I was travelling around the world and didn't like it anywhere as much as in SEA however the situation in Cambodia has changed too much so I will not return anymore.

 

I am doing a lot of brain work but currently as long as the economy stays that strong and I work for US IT startups I take the money, make my job and come as a tourist.

 

As long as you control yourself, which imho is not that easy but is an requirement, and you do your maths make your life as much comfortable as you can. If you have to count every penny, which many foreigners in Thailand in the meantime with the bad currency conversion rate have to do, then I'd prefer to leave the door to get outside Thailand wide open.

 

Wishing everyone the best and be wise... you might get 110years old in best/worst (???) case ????

[kingofthemountain]

9 minutes ago, gessi2000 said:

I absolutely agree with you!!!

 

Don't invest or spend more money than you are happy to loose in Thailand!

 

I am from Germany, travelling to Thailand since 18years and I am now in the mid 40s. Until 7-8 years ago I wanted to stay and live in TH but that changed a lot. I own a Condo, have Thai driving licenses and a bank account but never considered to get a Thailand Elite Visa.

Need to say that my Condo is in Pattay and it really depends on the location you spend or wanna spend as well of course. I don't stay with a Thai lady nor do I have a gf so for me the decision not returning would be easy however it is not.

 

So I made my decision to not invest or leave anything more than my Condo and motorbike over there and I can afford loosing that and my life still goes on. However the situation changed continuously since I travel there and I was also refused to reenter Thailand while leaving via land border to Lao being told only 2 land entries per Calendar Year are allowed. That was around 6 years ago I think and that seemed to have been a new regulation at this time. Hard to keep updated with that but if you wanna stay for longer than a yearly 30d tourist trip you have to be informed.

 

I was travelling around the world and didn't like it anywhere as much as in SEA however the situation in Cambodia has changed too much so I will not return anymore.

 

I am doing a lot of brain work but currently as long as the economy stays that strong and I work for US IT startups I take the money, make my job and come as a tourist.

 

As long as you control yourself, which imho is not that easy but is an requirement, and you do your maths make your life as much comfortable as you can. If you have to count every penny, which many foreigners in Thailand in the meantime with the bad currency conversion rate have to do, then I'd prefer to leave the door to get outside Thailand wide open.

 

Wishing everyone the best and be wise... you might get 110years old in best/worst (???) case ????

If you come here only as a tourist time to time

i don't see why you own your condo, particularly in Pattaya

where there are a lot for rent on the market and the rent are pretty cheap.

But you have probably your good reasons for that.

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

On 12/15/2019 at 7:27 AM, nickt092 said:

Personally I have sworn off marriage

Then just have a village wedding... no papers to sign.

[OneMoreFarang]

On 12/15/2019 at 6:00 AM, nickt092 said:

Buy the Thai Elite 20 yr Visa

At Age 50 switch over to the Non-OA

You don't mention any work. You seem to be rich.

Don't worry, for rich people there will always be legal ways to stay here.

I.e. you could open a company and officially work for them and all will be fine.

With lots of money there is no problem.

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

On 12/15/2019 at 7:27 AM, nickt092 said:

Personally I have sworn off marriage

Then just have a village wedding... no papers to sign.

And if you thought that that makes the wedding not legal then thing again.

I heard from guys who had to pay after their divorce even if they never officially married.

A couple of pictures from the village wedding ceremony was all the bride needed.

[Woolsgibb60]

I like to ask have anybody got advise on tourist visa  I have been coming for the last 4.5 years on a multi entry visa and had no problems and stay for 6 months and gone back uk after 5.6 month come back again now I have multi i got from the cardiff consulate what I pay for £160  now my 60 days was on today 17 dec so I go to penang and I come back the same day  when I got to the counter the girl as me where I stay told her it was on the slip plus on the register from the immigration office she call a guy over and he look at my tourist visa and saying to me u are not allowed in u are using the visa to live here and why are u using a tourist visa at your age 67 I said at what the consulate have been giving me he said they only interested in the money so he give me the 60 days and he said if u try to cone back in u will not be allowed so I have the visa until 14 fed where it should have been april 16 I plan to stay until may so why are they give u tourist visa and they saying u are using to live here for 6 months u got them in the consulate saying 1 thing and the immigration telling u something different what are the tourist visa for

[dcnx]

On 12/16/2019 at 1:29 PM, Martyp said:

When you are in your 30’s predicting the future 30 years hence is a gamble no matter where you are. 

Absolutely. That’s why he should be looking at getting actual residency (PR) somewhere. It’s not impossible but it’s difficult here. 
 

With PR he can at least know that he won’t have the rug pulled out from under him when he’s older. He could go a step further, in many countries it’s fairly easy to get citizenship after a few years of PR. Another very difficult task here.

 

He can also buy his way into temporary or permanent residency in some countries and bypass the BS. That’s better value than the Elite visa.

[Martyp]

30 minutes ago, Woolsgibb60 said:

I like to ask have anybody got advise on tourist visa  I have been coming for the last 4.5 years on a multi entry visa and had no problems and stay for 6 months and gone back uk after 5.6 month come back again now I have multi i got from the cardiff consulate what I pay for £160  now my 60 days was on today 17 dec so I go to penang and I come back the same day  when I got to the counter the girl as me where I stay told her it was on the slip plus on the register from the immigration office she call a guy over and he look at my tourist visa and saying to me u are not allowed in u are using the visa to live here and why are u using a tourist visa at your age 67 I said at what the consulate have been giving me he said they only interested in the money so he give me the 60 days and he said if u try to cone back in u will not be allowed so I have the visa until 14 fed where it should have been april 16 I plan to stay until may so why are they give u tourist visa and they saying u are using to live here for 6 months u got them in the consulate saying 1 thing and the immigration telling u something different what are the tourist visa for

At age 67 there are other more appropriate visa options. Get a non-immigrant O visa. Regardless of whether you consider yourself a tourist or not Immigration is going to want those over 50 and frequently spending half a year in Thailand to get an O or OA visa. Their definitions (however arbitrary) and their rules are the ones that count.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Martyp

[eppic]

My family (non-Thai) and I are actually permanently out the door from Thailand (specifically central Bangkok, we are big city types) in two months.  Six years here after 15 years in Singapore, our child was born here four years ago.  We are gone for the following reasons:

 

1. Immigration hostility

--Nasty attitude from immigration staff even when doing annual (family) extension of stays as obviously well-off professionals

--Constant and ever increasing "Big Brother" intrusions. TM30, 90 day reports, cell phone tracking, passport required to top up a cash card (even 7-11 or Rabbit!), constantly pulled over and given fines for "driving while white" (going rate is 1000 bt cash or threat of license confiscation), treated like we have the plague when attempting to open bank accounts. More issues I have no doubt missed.

2. Horrific air pollution -- Bangkok now has some of the worst air in the world from December to February, our child has developed asthma and allergies. Our pulmonolost at Bumrungrad says there is no escaping it, and he runs air purifiers 24/7 at his home.

3. Overdeveloped tourism areas.  Places like Phuket and especially Samui used to be great. Now they are seedy <deleted>holes populated by criminals and tacky package tourists. Horrible food, <deleted> beaches, Russian language required. We were married in Bali, and we'll take that any day. Or Palawan in the Philippines, nothing in Thailand compares.

 

FWIW, we are relocating to BGC in Metro Manila (basically, the super-clean, very safe Singapore-style enclave of Manila).  When traveling with my wife, a UK/Phils dual citizen, we automatically get 1-yr visa waiver without setting foot in an immigration office or even requesting the 1-yr entry. This 1-yr can be extended and resets for another year every time we travel abroad.  Immigration staff have always been polite and friendly to us (airports not so much, but a different matter). BGC has world class international schools right in the city, not a hellish commute to nowheresville like BKK Patana (British) or International School Bangkok (American). So we can provide great education for our child without destroying our own quality of life (we just aren't suburbanites).

 

If it had not been the Philippines, we would have been off for Spain, which is actually far lower cost than Thailand (BKK at least) despite for superior infrastructure, safety, air quality, and general quality of life.  We expect to make the move to Valencia or Malaga in 2-3 years, after our boy has mastered Tagalog and gained some exposure to Filipino culture. We have rule out Latin America simply because it is just not safe.

 

So, I am sure Thailand is still attractive to many, but it you spread your net a bit wider there is no question you find many places that are far more welcoming.  Of course, if you are infatuated with Thai women (I have never dated one or even found one that interested me), then of course it may be Thailand or nothing, but that was never the case for me.

[MH123]

My experience is the same as the thought you had. Whichever way the wind blows that day.