UK PM Johnson cannot keep Scotland in union against its will: Sturgeon

[URMySunshine]

Let's get real post Brexit - constitutional reform requires the active vote of more than 50% of the registered electorate from now on. And even if the Scots get one that (like Brexit) is just the beginning. Why should a reluctant Westminster give Scotland anything other than a bum deal ? Anything conceded is something out of our own pockets - the mood could get very ugly. Time to get armed and get Mel Gibson on standby.  Non racist resurgent English nationalism can be just as popular and effective as it's Scots variant or at least we will begin to find out. 

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

It's not only the semi literate boorishness of this statement but also its massive stupidity.It was not the "toff scum " that won the election for the Tories but ordinary working people.Indeed in London at least the well educated/upper middle class were on the whole Labour supporters.There is also a large constituency of Scottish conservatives who would be surprised to hear themselves described as Tory scum or indecent people.

Ho Ho, I must have hit a nerve.

It was Johnson's MPs and rich backers I was referring to - not the voters themselves, I should have made that clear. 

I have met plenty of Scottish gentry and conservatives over the years, toff scum describes many of them very well. Many are people who think that for some strange reason they are better than other folk. 

I note I missed a word out, however "Semi literate" is pretty pompous. Are you TV's resident language critic?

[jayboy]

6 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Ho Ho, I must have hit a nerve.

It was Johnson's MPs and rich backers I was referring to - not the voters themselves, I should have made that clear. 

I have met plenty of Scottish gentry and conservatives over the years, toff scum describes many of them very well. Many are people who think that for some strange reason they are better than other folk. 

I note I missed a word out, however "Semi literate" is pretty pompous. Are you TV's resident language critic?

If hitting a nerve means recoiling from dishonest humbug, so be it.

 

You also repeat the foolish nonsense from your last post.Actually one of the many really admirable aspects of Scotland is that it is almost entirely free of the English curse of class prejudice.If you are indeed a Scot I would have thought you would be proud of this.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

So by massive demand the Scots don't want independence was your claim. Are those the same Scots that almost in majority voted for independence just 3 years ago? So according to you brexit, massivily voted against by Scots, has changed their opinion towards staying in the union with a massive swing?

Yes the evidence suggests the Scots are now less keen on independence now.I certainly don't argue this is a permanent state of affairs given the times we live in.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

If hitting a nerve means recoiling from dishonest humbug, so be it.

 

You also repeat the foolish nonsense from your last post.Actually one of the many really admirable aspects of Scotland is that it is almost entirely free of the English curse of class prejudice.If you are indeed a Scot I would have thought you would be proud of this.

Many Scots suffer from the opposite of class prejudice, best summed up by the phrase, 'I ken't yer faither'; in other words, don't raise your aspirations too high because I know your background. 

 

So while we may not be overly burdened by class snobbery, we have the opposite problem - we resent those who accomplish things we fail at - one of the main reason, I believe, that so many Scots believe we are incapable of managing our own affairs. 

[john terry1001]

On 12/19/2019 at 7:00 AM, Rookiescot said:

That stuff is already paid for by the Scottish government from its block grant.

As for the pensions. Are you saying that post independence Westminster is going to be so spiteful that it will hurt pensioners in retaliation for Scotland having the temerity to leave?

Desperate stuff.

And where does the block grant come from?

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/scottish-income-tax-shortfall-offset-by-uk-funding

 

It will hurt pensioners who live outside the UK. It has done that for many years. If you leave the UK to live in another country your pension is frozen from the moment you leave.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, john terry1001 said:

And where does the block grant come from?

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/scottish-income-tax-shortfall-offset-by-uk-funding

 

It will hurt pensioners who live outside the UK. It has done that for many years. If you leave the UK to live in another country your pension is frozen from the moment you leave.

Every part of the UK generates a shortfall other than the City of London. To suggest that Scotland, or the UK for that matter, is unique in this case is laughable. 

[Nigel Garvie]

5 hours ago, jayboy said:

If hitting a nerve means recoiling from dishonest humbug, so be it.

 

You also repeat the foolish nonsense from your last post.Actually one of the many really admirable aspects of Scotland is that it is almost entirely free of the English curse of class prejudice.If you are indeed a Scot I would have thought you would be proud of this.

So you attack me with the words ".. semi literate boorishness, massive stupidity, and now foolish nonsense". Heavens you must think and awful lot of yourself to write that stuff.

Try to remember that the rules of the forum (As I understand them anyway) are that forceful debate is acceptable, but personal insults are not.

 

I certainly didn't mince my words when I criticised certain politicians (For which I make no apologies), however the response should be to challenge the criticism, not insult the messenger. That says more about you than it does about me.

[jayboy]

6 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

So you attack me with the words ".. semi literate boorishness, massive stupidity, and now foolish nonsense". Heavens you must think and awful lot of yourself to write that stuff.

Try to remember that the rules of the forum (As I understand them anyway) are that forceful debate is acceptable, but personal insults are not.

 

I certainly didn't mince my words when I criticised certain politicians (For which I make no apologies), however the response should be to challenge the criticism, not insult the messenger. That says more about you than it does about me.

Actually you described all Tory voters which would include hundreds of thousands of Scots and many members of this forum - as scum and as indecent people.

 

Happy New Year

[kingdong]

On 12/15/2019 at 11:23 PM, steve187 said:

she just wants to get in the history books, my personal thought is to repair Hadrian's wall, and put up border/customs posts, but that's just me. if they broke from the rest of the UK, they would never get back into the EU, for 1 they are not strong enough and 2 the EU will be no more

You missed 3 why would the European want them?to pay for their bribes?,sorry free prescriptions and education.

[Nigel Garvie]

14 hours ago, jayboy said:

Actually you described all Tory voters which would include hundreds of thousands of Scots and many members of this forum - as scum and as indecent people.

 

Happy New Year

Kindly re-read the phrases "Not the voters themselves" and "Many of them" in my earlier post.

Hopefully we can leave that there.

Merry Christmas

[john terry1001]

21 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Every part of the UK generates a shortfall other than the City of London. To suggest that Scotland, or the UK for that matter, is unique in this case is laughable. 

The whole point is that Scotland receives a grant from central Government to make good the shortfall and help balance the books. It's irrelevant what happens while you're part of the UK, leave though and that grant will no longer exist for Scotland. You'll have to generate it yourselves. Maybe the EU will bale you out ????  

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, john terry1001 said:

The whole point is that Scotland receives a grant from central Government to make good the shortfall and help balance the books. It's irrelevant what happens while you're part of the UK, leave though and that grant will no longer exist for Scotland. You'll have to generate it yourselves. Maybe the EU will bale you out ????  

No it doesn't. You genuinely haven't the first clue about how revenue collection and disbursement works, do you? 10/10 for effort, 0/10 for correctness. 

[Scot123]

On 12/17/2019 at 4:50 PM, FritsSikkink said:

You can't afford to lose Scotland who is paying your bills, that is the only reason , they won't allow a new referendum;

I can also produce a spreadsheet and more convincing than the above. Cherry picking figures while ignoring others. Being Scottish and having supported the SNP for over 30+ years and even supporting independence but there was a referendum and the country wisely said no (thank god as I was wrong). I was Red Pilled shortly after taking a real interest and felt very angry with myself for being a sheeple. Fact 1. SNP were offered more devolved powers and said no we are not ready then in the same breath screaming independence. Fact 2. Promised made by them about abolishing certain taxes once in power ignored. Fact 3. Wining independence only to hand over sovereignty to europe/Germany is insane. Then there is defacing my flag with a circle of yellow stars and the refusal to answer simple questions about defence, money/currency (ever tried to change Scottish notes into any other currency). The books do not tally and using figures when oil was high then ignoring figures like defence etc wow. Only a bigoted SNAT that now disgusts me. The sad thing now is the grass roots for support Scottish independence is growing in England as seeing the bigots and venom they are saying "F...... Off" and I don't blame them Scotland now has a cancer which needs to be cut out. 

[Nigel Garvie]

23 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

 Fact 3. Wining independence only to hand over sovereignty to europe/Germany is insane. Then there is defacing my flag with a circle of yellow stars and the refusal to answer simple questions about defence, money/currency (ever tried to change Scottish notes into any other currency). The books do not tally and using figures when oil was high then ignoring figures like defence etc wow. Only a bigoted SNAT that now disgusts me. The sad thing now is the grass roots for support Scottish independence is growing in England as seeing the bigots and venom they are saying "F...... Off" and I don't blame them Scotland now has a cancer which needs to be cut out. 

"Fact 3. Wining independence only to hand over sovereignty to europe/Germany is insane"..................... No your statement is insane, if the UK didn't have sovereignty how would they have achieved Brexit. 

 

"Scotland now has a cancer which needs to be cut out." ..........this is a very nasty thing to say about the English, to refer to their country as "A cancer", however vile and crooked a bunch of MPs they chose,  is still an unpleasant choice of words.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

41 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

I can also produce a spreadsheet and more convincing than the above. Cherry picking figures while ignoring others.

I await your figures with anticipation. 

 

42 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

Being Scottish and having supported the SNP for over 30+ years and even supporting independence but there was a referendum and the country wisely said no (thank god as I was wrong).

What took you so long to change?

 

42 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

I was Red Pilled shortly after taking a real interest and felt very angry with myself for being a sheeple.

An interesting choice of words - red pilled? That is not a term I have heard anyone ever use with the exception of angry men of Reddit who object to women's rights.

 

44 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

Fact 1. SNP were offered more devolved powers and said no we are not ready then in the same breath screaming independence.

Which powers were offered and refused?

 

45 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

Fact 2. Promised made by them about abolishing certain taxes once in power ignored.

Which taxes in particular?

 

46 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

Fact 3. Wining independence only to hand over sovereignty to europe/Germany is insane.

Nonsense hyperbole aside, the nature of the relationship of an independent Scotland with the EU will be for the Scottish electorate to decide.

 

48 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

Then there is defacing my flag with a circle of yellow stars and the refusal to answer simple questions about defence, money/currency (ever tried to change Scottish notes into any other currency). The books do not tally and using figures when oil was high then ignoring figures like defence etc wow.

I think you are starting to lose it there, champ. Try breathing slowly and focusing on one thing at a time. 

 

49 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

Only a bigoted SNAT that now disgusts me. The sad thing now is the grass roots for support Scottish independence is growing in England as seeing the bigots and venom they are saying "F...... Off" and I don't blame them Scotland now has a cancer which needs to be cut out. 

I am still waiting for you to explain why you idly sat by for 30 years and did nothing about the bigotry you believe is endemic in the SNP. Care top explain what took you so long?

[Nigel Garvie]

   On 12/21/2019 at 9:43 AM,  RuamRudy said: 

If you look at the demographics, 18-25 year olds are by far the greatest supporters of independence. There are also, I presume, the most international in outlook and the most embracing of global youth culture. They are the driver of independence.

 

Despite spurious replies to your comment, I think this map (Which I just found) backs you up completely. An upper age voting limit, until you have a doctors certificate ruling out senile dementia would be a good idea.

 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, Nigel Garvie said:

   On 12/21/2019 at 9:43 AM,  RuamRudy said: 

If you look at the demographics, 18-25 year olds are by far the greatest supporters of independence. There are also, I presume, the most international in outlook and the most embracing of global youth culture. They are the driver of independence.

 

Despite spurious replies to your comment, I think this map (Which I just found) backs you up completely. An upper age voting limit, until you have a doctors certificate ruling out senile dementia would be a good idea.

 

These guys did another 18-24yo map based upon the results a couple of weeks back - the results are even more promising.