'Defend democracy': Pelosi calls Trump 'ongoing threat' in impeachment debate

[webfact]

'Defend democracy': Pelosi calls Trump 'ongoing threat' in impeachment debate

By Patricia Zengerle, Amanda Becker and David Morgan

 

Rep. Diana Degette, member presiding over the U.S. House of Representatives, pounds the gavel to open the session to discuss rules ahead a vote on two articles of impeachment against U.S. President Donald Trump on Capitol Hill in Washington, U.S., in a still image from video December 18, 2019. House TV via REUTERS

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Wednesday called Donald Trump a threat to American democracy who left Congress no choice but to impeach him as bitterly divided lawmakers debated before historic votes on charges accusing the Republican president of abusing his power and obstructing Congress.

 

With billowing partisan differences on full display, the Democratic-led House of Representatives launched a planned six hours of debate on the two articles of impeachment arising from the president's actions toward Ukraine.

 

Trump would become the third U.S. president ever to be impeached. That would set the stage for a trial in the Republican-led Senate next month, with House members acting as prosecutors and senators as jurors. A conviction would result in his removal from office, but the Senate's top Republican has said there is "no chance" of that happening.

 

On the House floor, Pelosi read the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance, then said, "today we are here to defend democracy for the people," to applause from fellow Democratic lawmakers.

 

As the debate unfolded, Trump on Twitter called the proceedings "AN ASSAULT ON AMERICA" and on his party. Trump, who has denied wrongdoing, later added of Pelosi: "Will go down in history as worst Speaker."

 

While the House twice previously has voted to impeach presidents - Bill Clinton in 1998 and Andrew Johnson in 1868 - no president has ever been removed from office via impeachment.

 

Separate votes on the two charges are expected in the early evening. The votes are expected to fall almost entirely along party lines, with Democrats in favor and Republicans opposed.

 

In speeches on the House floor, Republicans defended the president and accused Democrats of seeking to use an unfair, rigged process to nullify the results of the 2016 election in which Trump defeated Democrat Hillary Clinton. The House voted down a Republican bid to adjourn and a motion accusing Democrats of violating the chamber's rules.

 

The U.S. House of Representatives began debating the charges facing President Donald Trump ahead of a historic impeachment vote later on Wednesday. Chris Dignam has more.

 

"If we do not act now, we would be derelict in our duty. It is tragic that the president's reckless actions make impeachment necessary," Pelosi added.

 

"He gave us no choice. What we are discussing today is the established fact that the president violated the Constitution. It is a matter of fact that the president is an ongoing threat to our national security and the integrity of our elections - the basis of our democracy," Pelosi said.

 

House Democrats accuse Trump, 73, of abusing his power by asking Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, a leading contender for the Democratic nomination to face Trump in the November 2020 election. Trump is also accused of obstructing the House investigation by directing administration officials and agencies not to comply with subpoenas for testimony and documents related to impeachment.

 

Republican Representative Mike Rogers said, "The matter before the House today is based solely on a fundamental hatred of our president. It's a sham, a witch hunt - and it's tantamount to a coup against the duly elected president of the United States."

 

The debate underscored the deep divide in Congress over Trump's conduct during his tumultuous presidency and the larger political schism dividing the United States.

 

Republican Representative Barry Loudermilk invoked the name of Jesus during the debate. Referring to the ancient Roman provincial governor who presided over the trial of Jesus and ordered the crucifixion, Loudermilk said, "During that sham trial, Pontius Pilate afforded more rights to Jesus than the Democrats have afforded to this president in this process."

 

Republican Representative Mike Kelly compared the impeachment to the Japanese attack on the U.S. naval base at Hawaii's Pearl Harbor in 1941, calling the House proceedings another "date that will live in infamy," similar to the words Democratic President Franklin Roosevelt used to describe the raid that led to America's entry into World War Two.

 

Impeachment is an extraordinary check on presidential power spelled out in the Constitution enabling Congress to remove presidents who commit "high crimes and misdemeanors."

 

"The founders' great fear of a rogue or corrupt president is the very reason why they enshrined impeachment in the Constitution," Pelosi said, calling the gathered lawmakers the "custodians of the Constitution."

 

The House vote to approve the rules to formally begin debate was 228-197, a possible preview of the later votes on the articles of impeachment, with only two Democrats - Representatives Collin Peterson and Jeff Van Drew - voting no and no Republicans voting in favor. Van Drew has announced plans to become a Republican. Representative Justin Amash, an independent who left the Republican Party in July, joined the Democrats in the vote.

 

Vice President Mike Pence, speaking in Michigan, touted the economy under Trump and called the House proceedings "a disgrace."

"They are trying to impeach this president because they know they can't defeat this president" in 2020, Pence said.

 

But House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler said on the House floor, "We cannot rely on the next election as a remedy for presidential misconduct when the president threatens the very integrity of that election. He has shown he will continue to put his selfish interests above the good of the country. We must act without delay."

 

WHISTLEBLOWER'S COMPLAINT

Fearful of political blowback, senior Democrats long resisted an impeachment inquiry, even after Special Counsel Robert Mueller outlined episodes of Trump seeking to impede the federal investigation that documented Russian interference in the 2016 election to boost his candidacy.

 

But after a whistleblower from the U.S. intelligence community brought to light a July 25 phone call in which Trump asked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to investigate Biden, House Democrats launched an impeachment inquiry in September and moved swiftly to take testimony from current and former administration officials.

 

Democrats said Trump held back $391 million in security aid intended to combat Russia-backed separatists and a coveted White House meeting for Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy as leverage to coerce Kiev into interfering in the 2020 election by smearing Biden.

 

On the July telephone call, Trump asked Zelenskiy to investigate Biden and his son Hunter Biden as well as a discredited theory promoted by the president and beneficial to Russia that Democrats conspired with Ukraine to meddle in the 2016 election. Hunter Biden had joined the board of Ukrainian energy company Burisma while his father was vice president. Trump has accused the Bidens of corruption without offering evidence. They have denied wrongdoing.

 

Senator Lindsey Graham, the Senate Judiciary Committee's Republican chairman, said on Wednesday he would want any impeachment trial to be quick and with no new witnesses.

 

Removing Trump from office would require a two-thirds majority of those present and voting in the 100-member Senate, meaning at least 20 Republicans would have to vote to convict the president.

 

For a graphic on Articles of Impeachment:

https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judiciary.house.gov/files/documents/Articles of Impeachment.pdf 

 

For a graphic on U.S. House Judiciary Committee's Full Impeachment Report:

https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/CRPT-116hrpt346.pdf

 

For a graphic on Impeachement inquiry against President Trump:

https://graphics.reuters.com/USA-TRUMP-WHISTLEBLOWER/0100B2EZ1MK/index.html

 

(Reporting by David Morgan, Amanda Becker, Patricia Zengerle, Susan Cornwell and Richard Cowan; Additional reporting by Susan Heavey and Lisa Lambert; Writing by Will Dunham; Editing by Jonathan Oatis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-12-19

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[canuckamuck]

 The Republicans are all quite pleased with the poll results so far. Go Nancy.

[Samui Bodoh]

Well, here we go, Impeachment.

 

It is a sad thing to see any failed US President, but one can only look on and realize that Trump and his enablers brought it upon themselves. The simple fact is that rules and laws aren't really that difficult to follow, and the US President has almost unlimited support available to assist; it was lazy-ass behaviour that brought Trump to this.

 

The really, really sad part is that it was unnecessary; Trump could have taken the high road.

 

Imagine if...

• As a legislative starting point, Trump decided to go for an Infrastructure bill rather than trying to repeal Obamacare. He could have used the 'Bully Pulpit' against both Democrats and Republicans to sponsor and see enacted a compromise which straddled the 'political middle' and side-lined the extremists in both parties.
• Upon a successful Infrastructure bill, he could have brokered a compromise for the 'Dreamers' in return for some kind of border security package. 
• Building on two successful legislative victories, a compromise on revenue-neutral tax reform might have been achieved, rather than the blow-job give-away to the rich that occurred.
• Next, there was/is broad agreement/support for a bill dealing with pharmaceuticals and drug companies; creating and passing legislation, especially on the heels of a victory or two, would gave been child's play.
• ObamaCare was essentially Bob Dole's health care plan from the nineties and Mitt Romney's healthcare plan from his Massachusetts Governorship, so that could have garnered bi-partisan support for refocus, repair (with a good amount of backing and support from Trump) and been reformed.
• A bi-partisan budget deal, sponsored and brokered by Trump, could have bypassed the outliers and garnered support across the middle, thus averting the ballooning, horribly unsustainable monstrosity of a debt that the US has now.
• There are several other issues in US politics where the two parties aren't really that far apart (in terms of policy and ideas) and more areas could have been brokered with an 'Independent-minded' President who governed as an 'outsider' rather than a hyper-partisan Republican.

It is truly a remarkable thing to say, but had Trump opted for unity, forcing and cajoling the parties to cooperate, and working together with Congress rather than promoting partisanship, strife and disunity, I think he could have been a GREAT President who broke the partisan deadlock and got Washington 'working again'. It could have been 'Leadership' for the ages.

 

Yes, those who know my posts know my feelings about Trump (Er... I do not like him), but a decision going the other way at the start of his Presidency could have, in my view, yielded great things; he was in a unique position as one 'above' politics who was going to get deals done in spite of the politics and politicians.

 

He could have done wonders.

 

But, instead, any and all mentions in future history books will forever begin 'Impeached President Donald Trump...'

 

What a sad waste.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Pelosi has a great future as a stand up comedienne. Probably be better at it than as a politician.

[melvinmelvin]

 

dunno about you,

but I find the video in the head post quite depressing, if it represents state of affairs on the hill

 

about time the electorate think before they vote rather than after -

still, if Trump survives this process I think he is still in line for another period

unless DEMs come up with more competitive material

 

 

[TopDeadSenter]

It's painful watching this farce live. Schiff is like a deflated balloon, all the fight has left him. He is running on automatic pilot. The Republicans on the other hand are energized. I suppose they know they are the ultimate beneficiaries of this preposterous witch hunt.

 To recap.

  Losers. Biden Sr and Jr, Pelosi, Schiff, Democrat party. Democracy. Any potential foreign aid recipients.

 Winners. Donald Trump. The Republican party. The American voters.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by TopDeadSenter

[Kelsall]

Schiff, Pelosi and Nadler are simply embarrassing themselves with this bad joke.  No one with an ounce of sense supports this absurd charade.

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

Schiff, Pelosi and Nadler are simply embarrassing themselves with this bad joke.  No one with an ounce of sense supports this absurd charade.

 

embarrassing themselves?

embarrassing the US of A I'd rather say

 

the term failed state comes to mind - national assembly fighting head of state by legal means

gosh

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, canuckamuck said:

To be fair, both sides are as dirty as a soi dog, and to believe that only one side is letting America down is foolish. This impeachment is about nothing though. Hilary was clearly up to no good, Biden was clearly up to no good, and Trump stuck his nose in it and it all fell on him. Therefore it amuses me to see it backfire so magnificently on the Democrats.

Somewhere in their mind, the leaders of the Dems that have led their party to this situation must fear that it's all going to backfire on them, greatly. They had the opportunity after the Mueller report was released to just use it to snipe at Trump, but instead they chose to go full on to the nuclear option of trying to impeach him, rather than select a candidate that could win the election.

IMO they realise that the present collection of candidates probably has little to zero chance against Trump in a booming economy, and if he is re elected and continues to do a good job Pence will probably be a shoo in to follow Trump. Therefore, IMO it's more desperation than sense that compels them to go down the road to potential destruction.

I imagine them as they go to sleep saying to themselves over and over that "if only HRC had won, if only HRC had won, if only..............................." Must be galling that they sabotaged Bernie, when he would most probably be president now, if they'd played fair.

[sirineou]

15 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

To be fair, both sides are as dirty as a soi dog, and to believe that only one side is letting America down is foolish. This impeachment is about nothing though. Hilary was clearly up to no good, Biden was clearly up to no good, and Trump stuck his nose in it and it all fell on him. Therefore it amuses me to see it backfire so magnificently on the Democrats.

Hilary was never president.I have no love lost for Hillary , is she was president and as bad as trump I would want her out also.  and If there was anything to Bident the republicans would have used it.

This is not about who is good or bad, the system has a way of weeding out the good. This is all about how bad, the bad are allowed to be.

All that we get ,and complain about ,is all that we have allowed to happen, if this is allowed expect things to  get much much worst. 

[metisdead]

An inflammatory insulting post has been reported and removed, the reply was removed as well. 

[Kelsall]

The Dems are saying how serious this is but do not explain why Adam Schiff started the whole thing off with a "parody" and has appeared on late night comedy shows to discuss the matter!

 

????????????????????

 

 

[DoctorG]

After 3 years of trying to impeach him, and actually holding votes, this is all they can come up with? Dems - your desperation is showing.

[TooBigToFit]

I thought this already went to the Senate. Will Schiff, Pelosi and southern right wingers like Gohmert and Collins be out of the picture soon? Getting rid of Trump would be good for the US. Trump could run again right away anyway or another Republican could replace him. The next election won't be easy with or without Trump. Any Republican taking over would still be interested in the same issues as Trump. So there would be a shake up of faces but possibly not much change coming from the right.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, TooBigToFit said:

I thought this already went to the Senate. Will Schiff, Pelosi and southern right wingers like Gohmert and Collins be out of the picture soon? Getting rid of Trump would be good for the US. Trump could run again right away anyway or another Republican could replace him. The next election won't be easy with or without Trump. Any Republican taking over would still be interested in the same issues as Trump. So there would be a shake up of faces but possibly not much change coming from the right.

Hadn't even been voted on when OP was written. If approved it will go to the senate next year.

If Trump removed ( highly unlikely ), Pence becomes president, and the elections would go on as at present, far as I know. Pence would probably be elected, and expect 8 years of him.

Trump could run again right away anyway.

???????????????????????? If convicted Trump can't run again and if not convicted will stand in the election as planned.

 

Nothing to fear.

Edited December 19, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[DoctorG]

Here is an interesting scenario (just for giggles) -

The Senate upholds the impeachment and removes Trump.

The Senate however does not disbar him from running again.

Pence serves out the remaining year.

Trump runs again and wins.

Because he did not complete his first term, Trump gets to run for a further term, therefore he ends up serving for 11 years.

 

Constitutional lawyers cannot agree about this and it would end up in the Supreme Court.

As I said, it is just a fun situation to mull over, so curtail the TDS please.

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

Here is an interesting scenario (just for giggles) -

The Senate upholds the impeachment and removes Trump.

The Senate however does not disbar him from running again.

Pence serves out the remaining year.

Trump runs again and wins.

Because he did not complete his first term, Trump gets to run for a further term, therefore he ends up serving for 11 years.

 

Constitutional lawyers cannot agree about this and it would end up in the Supreme Court.

As I said, it is just a fun situation to mull over, so curtail the TDS please.

 

fun

 

is not the right term

 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

so curtail the TDS please.

Fat chance of that!

[Skallywag]

The GOP have been changed into "compliant robots", programmed to obey POTUS. 

 

McConnell and Graham have already said there will be no witnesses in the Senate trial.  They claim no first hand evidence, yet those with the first hand evidence have ignored subpoenas and refused to testify.  How is that justice? How is this allowed by the Legislative branch rule to provide "checks and balances" in our government.  

 

[Tug]

What surprises me is not one republican defended trump only naming and shaming the dems ah well know what the outcome will be what a price to pay attempting to slander a rival a sad day in America 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

The GOP have been changed into "compliant robots", programmed to obey POTUS. 

 

McConnell and Graham have already said there will be no witnesses in the Senate trial.  They claim no first hand evidence, yet those with the first hand evidence have ignored subpoenas and refused to testify.  How is that justice? How is this allowed by the Legislative branch rule to provide "checks and balances" in our government.  

 

I believe the senate can do whatever it likes re impeachment. Apparently that's how the founding fathers wanted it.

It's a political trial not a criminal one so obviously politics is how it's run.

[Kelsall]

"Madam Speaker, I am about to say something my Democrat colleagues hate to hear:"

 

Donald J. Trump is President of the United States!" - Kevin McCarthy, House Minority Leader.

 

(Standing Ovation)

Edited December 19, 2019 by Kelsall

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, Tug said:

What surprises me is not one republican defended trump only naming and shaming the dems ah well know what the outcome will be what a price to pay attempting to slander a rival a sad day in America 

Why are you surprised? Given most of them are the swamp Trump vowed to "drain", they have no love for Trump the man, but they are probably not going to dump him when they are doing so well economically, and middle America on the whole supports him.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Kelsall said:

"Madam Speaker, I am about to say something my Democrat colleagues hate to hear:"

 

Donald J. Trump is President of the United States!" - Kevin McCarthy, House Minority Leader.

I'd love to have seen their faces when he said that, especially as they probably know in their hearts that he is still going to be president end of next year.

Nothing to fear

2020 to 2024.

[meechai]

10 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

"Madam Speaker, I am about to say something my Democrat colleagues hate to hear:"

 

Donald J. Trump is President of the United States!" - Kevin McCarthy, House Minority Leader.

 

(Standing Ovation)

I especially like & agree with the last part that was underlined.........

 

“Madame Speaker — I am about to say something my Democrat colleagues hate to hear.

“Donald J. Trump is President of the United States. He is President today. He will be President tomorrow. And he will be President when this impeachment is over. When they accept that, maybe this House can get back to work for the American people. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by meechai

[rabas]

31 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

The GOP have been changed into "compliant robots", programmed to obey POTUS. 

 

McConnell and Graham have already said there will be no witnesses in the Senate trial.  They claim no first hand evidence, yet those with the first hand evidence have ignored subpoenas and refused to testify.  How is that justice? How is this allowed by the Legislative branch rule to provide "checks and balances" in our government. 

They can use all that first hand evidence from the Dem investigation. That was Gordon Sondland admitting what he said was just his own opinion.  Maybe they can play a tape of his voice "Well, I kind of thought that at the time".

 

Great trial, 5 minutes leading to the demise of the Democrat party as we know it today.

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by rabas

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, rabas said:

They can use all that first hand evidence from the Dem investigation. That was Gordon Sondland admitting what he said was just his own opinion.  Maybe they can play a tape of his voice "Well, I kind of thought that at the time".

 

Great trial, 5 minutes leading to the demise of the Democrat party as we know it today.

 

As I write, I imagine the GOP leadership wondering if they can humiliate the Dems more by not having a trial at all and just going straight to a vote, or having a long trial and dragging as many Dems as possible to testify.

I suspect the first option so they can get on with the real business of 2020, the election campaigns for all the senators and congressmen.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just out. Impeached on first count. Good news as it means it's up to the senate now.

I'd be happy if it meant all the Trump haters will stop complaining after he is acquitted, but I think we'll still be hearing Trump bad, Trump bad even after he is.

Nothing to fear.

[rabas]

Hyper-partisan as predicted

  -- Not one Republican voted for

  -- Not even all Democrats voted against

 

Day of infamy.  The Dems fail in their attack on Democracy. Payback time. Didn't the Senate have some nukes a while back?

 

[earlinclaifornia]

2 hours ago, Kelsall said:

Schiff, Pelosi and Nadler are simply embarrassing themselves with this bad joke.  No one with an ounce of sense supports this absurd charade.

As a registered Independent I supported his Impeachmant. Loved watching the final votes. Forever history will remember trump as Impeached.