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Any 3BB Fiber Users Managed to Dump ISP Router, Not just Bridge Mode?

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I've recently upgraded my old load-balanced set-up from AIS + True going through a Dratek router to AIS + 3BB via a new Ubiquiti Edgemax 4 router.

 

Has anyone managed to dump the ISP Router out of their network? AIS gave me a separate ONU and router, so with the right pppoe user/pass and vlan setup I can take their router out. Here's a guide (in Thai) to doing so with a microtik router:

 

https://medium.com/nexthopthai/%E0%B9%83%E0%B8%8A%E0%B9%89%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%87%E0%B8%95-ais-fibre-%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%9A-mikrotik-ipv6-e0e6a5de9fef

 

Just wondering if anybody with 3BB has managed to do the same? My 3BB connection did not come with separate ONU, but looking to swap in a Ubiquiti Nano G if it will work.

 

Anyone tried?

 

As an aside, I got 3BB for 50% off for 6 months by showing them my AIS bill, and AIS for 50% off for a year by taking a new 1 year contract. I now get 1Gb down and 500Mb up with some redundancy for ~1200 THB per month. Not too shabby when I think back 15 years and begging CAT telecom to purchase their POS CDMA dongle because ADSL hadn't fully rolled out.

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15 hours ago, i84teen said:

done exactly what? "dump an ISP router"?

Many people put ISP-supplied routers into bridge mode and run their own router.  This requires your router to support PPPOE to make the connection with ISP.

 

I was hoping (obviously misplaced...) that someone might have already removed the ISP-supplied router entirely, in order to have one less box in their route. If I manage to remove either of my ISP-supplied routers I'll report back here for others who might be interested in trying. I know there are many people running their own routers, so it might be of interest to some.

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May I ask, what’s the benefit of running your own router? Is there a speed increase? Or for security?

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3 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

May I ask, what’s the benefit of running your own router? Is there a speed increase? Or for security?

In the right situation, you might get both of those benefits. Essentially, ISP-supplied routers tend to be cheap-and-nasty, so a common reason for running your own might be to improve your WiFi network - in this case, removing the ISP-supplied router would remove an unwanted WiFi radio (which could interfere with yours).  You might have come across the phrase "bridge mode", and this is related to running your own router behind the ISP-supplied router. In my case, I want to take it a step further and remove the ISP-supplied routers entirely if I can.

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This might be useful if you want to discover more:

Interesting that apparently @muratremix managed to get a ONU from 3bb and wasn't using a 3bb router at all:

I think I saw in another thread him saying they no longer supported that when he moved to Phuket, 

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I'd be happy to dump the 1st generation modem/router supplied by 3BB. Haven't yet swapped it for the dual-band model. That would be a small advance but I'd much rather go to a standalone modem and a sweet top-end ASUS router.

 

It's a three-part question:

- Does the 3BB service run a non-proprietary protocol?

- Can you obtain a GPON for that protocol?

- Will 3BB allow it?

 

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3 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

- Does the 3BB service run a non-proprietary protocol?

My understanding - no. But you need to get the username and password from 3bb, and your equipment must support PPPOE.

4 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

- Can you obtain a GPON for that protocol?

See:

It appears 3bb sell the Huawei ONU unit for 1,200 THB. Same unit is about $15 on Aliexpress. Not sure if 3bb will support a unit they didn't directly provision themselves. Worth asking.

5 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

- Will 3BB allow it?

If they still sell the ONU then yes. Engineer who came to my home had no idea about this. 

 

One thing to note - it's not simply plug-and-play. You need to set up required VLANs on your own router, and the ISPs wont support anything if you use your own equipment. AIS use VLAN10 and VLAN30 (Internet and Playbox respectively). 3bb use VLAN33. Unsure about True. So your own router would need to support VLAN and PPPOE for this to work.

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Ahh i am planning similar atm for a new house:

 

Just ordered the Ubiquiti Unifi Dreammachine Pro in the US yday, and a 24 PoE switch from them, going to use unifi protect video system and the inwallHD and nanohd access points around the house.

 

My plan was to replace the 3bb gpon with a unifi nano gpon or similar, i just don't want any huawei/fiberhome brand gear in my house: https://store.ui.com/products/ufiber-nano-g

 

According to google you can change the nano gpon to run with the supplied gpons serial number and then use the dreammachine or every other router to make the connection: https://github.com/palmerc/AESCrypt2#what-about-replacing-the-router

 

Do you have any idea if that will work out before i order more and more gear? I didn't read any success stories so far specifically for 3bb, which isn't a surprise as i don't speak thai and my google <deleted> is quite limited in that respect.

 

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UFiber Nano G looks good but I don't have a GPON / ONT device from 3BB and it means I can't use it even if I use mac address of supplied cheap Huawei router?

Edited by muratremix

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1 hour ago, muratremix said:

UFiber Nano G looks good but I don't have a GPON / ONT device from 3BB and it means I can't use it even if I use mac address of supplied cheap Huawei router?

From what i understand many ISPs use the serial nr (or mac?) to auth the GPON ONT to their network, as long as you rewrite the nano gpon hd serial number with the huwei one it should authenticate fine.

the unifi gpon has different profiles, profile 2 makes it work like a huawei router, that and with the correct serial number it should authenticate fine.

 

The serial nr is listed in the device overview according to: https://www.sys2u.online/XPERT_TOPIC54_how-to-set-bridge-mode-3bb-gpon-onu-model-HG8245H-MikroTik.html

 

That is IF 3bb uses that as auth and not something else, which i don't really know the answer to as i can't test it myself yet and it's damn hard to find anything non-thai about this.

 

PS: If more than plain internet access is involved like tv, coax etc it seems to get hella complicated.

PS2: They could also use PPPoE authentication but then you would prolly have to dump the huawei firmware and find out what the data is, not sure how complicated that would get?

Edited by ThomasThBKK
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8 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

My plan was to replace the 3bb gpon with a unifi nano gpon or similar

I looked into this. Oddly, it seems it might depend on where you are. My best guess is that the underlying network is actually from CAT and they use different vendors in different regions. It's Huawei here but Fiber Home elsewhere. Be prepared that as you move further away from their normal set up the less they'll support you.

8 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Do you have any idea if that will work out before i order more and more gear?

Those little Nanos are cheap so won't cost you much to test. I was going to buy one here. More or less and price here for that as from US. My Edgemax 4 was 6K THB.

1 hour ago, muratremix said:

UFiber Nano G looks good but I don't have a GPON / ONT device from 3BB and it means I can't use it even if I use mac address of supplied cheap Huawei router?

Assuming it works, you would probably be able to swap out their <deleted> router and handle PPPoE from your own router. The Nano is only a modem.

19 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

PS: If more than plain internet access is involved like tv, coax etc it seems to get hella complicated.

IPTV no probs. We have 2 Play Boxes and they work fine so long as you route all their traffic to AIS wan. Have them on a separate vlan, and no issues to date. If you're thinking of doing this with cable connection from True then it gets trickier since they don't use fiber.

19 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

PS2: They could also use PPPoE authentication but then you would prolly have to dump the huawei firmware and find out what the data is, not sure how complicated that would get?

No matter what you do there is going to be a PPPoE connection. PPPoE for both AIS and 3bb are handled by the Edgemax. Then load balanced for Lan with exceptions for whatever I want to send to one wan or the other. Worked out very well so far, although I kissed taking the higher AIS package which recently got upgraded to 1Gb. If I had known they were doing that I would have taken it for 650 THB per month with my 50% discount.

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44 minutes ago, RedCardinal said:

I looked into this. Oddly, it seems it might depend on where you are. My best guess is that the underlying network is actually from CAT and they use different vendors in different regions. It's Huawei here but Fiber Home elsewhere. Be prepared that as you move further away from their normal set up the less they'll support you.

Oommph, thaught i will be able to decide myself if it's a fiberhome or huawei. My neigherbor there has a fiberhome one, would be less ideal if they offer only those as there doesn't seem to be an option to dump the xml config easily, which may or may not be needed.

 

48 minutes ago, RedCardinal said:

Those little Nanos are cheap so won't cost you much to test. I was going to buy one here. More or less and price here for that as from US. My Edgemax 4 was 6K THB.

yeah i am going to do that, only issue is the house is nowhere near done yet, currently installing cat7 and OM3 fiber lines in every room but that's only my own impatience.

 

49 minutes ago, RedCardinal said:

Assuming it works, you would probably be able to swap out their <deleted> router and handle PPPoE from your own router. The Nano is only a modem.

yeah that's the plan, the issue is they might not be willing to give me the PPPoE auth data? Some other isps only use the SN and no PPPoE auth at all for authentication, i am not sure what 3bb does.

Hence my backup plan to dump the config from their huawei routers - to get the PPPoE pw. Did they just tell it to you? 

 

 

I'll use the DM pro as the router as it's also has cloudkey and 8 port switch in there and seems to be able to handle 5gb/s easily with IPS/IDS enabled unlike their older products that aren't edge line -> https://store.ui.com/products/udm-pro

Will put another switch from them with PoE behind it to power the Unifi protect cameras and access points, and then it should be done basically, will get AIS line later and use the DM as load balancer too. 

 

Thanks for your answer, helped me a lot!

 

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