Taking a Stand on Service Charges

[stevenl]

22 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

17%.

No, you have to recalculate. I'll help you, the VAT is also calculated over the service charge. nSo as I said " All in all almost 20% extra. ".

Edited January 5, 2020 by stevenl

[meand]

I had to take a moment to recover. The length a company will go to in order to extract money from us is perplexing. 

 

Next thing you know, when I buy a piece of furniture, I may have to pay more to have it installed. When I hop on a flight, I may have to pay for extra bags. Or when I get my phone bill there may be some fees I have to pay. Not to mention the battery in my vehicle being disposed of fee and fuel prices being listed as 2.33 + 9/10! 

 

This is utterly outrageous. Companies are trying to make more money without plastering that fact all over their walls. For the love of god!

[Chazar]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

First mistake.

second mistake ......"I went  out"

[Chazar]

If  I  buy a chair do I have to take a stand on it also?

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, meand said:

It is a business and this is a way for them to make more money. That is what businesses are supposed to do. If they make less money doing it they will probably stop. 

 

Service charge is for the staff, not for the business.

[topt]

7 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

Why would "high end/high priced establishments" need an extra 10 % ?

I didn't say they "needed it" 

[Nyezhov]

In the places I eat, 10% service charge is 25 US cents. I pay it, then tip another quarter, than run screaming to my computer to howl in poverty stricken ripped off agony.

 

Who eats at Jamie Olivers in Siam anyway? If Im spending that kind of money its an Eatigo hotel buffet. I like the ones that have foi gras so I can vid meself stuffing my fat hairy face and get the SJWs worked up.

 

Its only moneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[shy coconut]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

First mistake.

I think the chain may have gone bust in the UK

[jackdd]

36 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

In this case, the additional charges are shown on the menu in the same size font as the description of the menu items.

 

http://jamieoliverkitchen-th.com/downloads/jok_bkk_mainmenu.pdf

At the end of the last page.

Are customers supposed to read every page of the menu from start to beginning?

I'm against service charge (displayed prices should be the final prices, also including vat), but if they are going to charge it they should at least make it clear near the price of the dishes, at least on the bottom of every page.

Edited January 5, 2020 by jackdd

[Just Weird]

8 minutes ago, stevenl said:

27 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

17%.

No, you have to recalculate. I'll help you, the VAT is also calculated over the service charge. nSo as I said " All in all almost 20% extra. ".

No need to help me, VAT is added before the service charge, so the (pedantic) figure is 17.7%, that's nearer 17% than 20%.  As I said.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

How do you know the service charge goes to the staff?

Ask them

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, meand said:

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In good places the 10% service charge goes 100% to the staff. I have absolutely not problem with that.

And in Thailand it is well known that 10% service charge is charged in almost all places.

You can ask before you order and if you don't like it then walk away.

Enjoy the weekend.

 

That first sentence. I really cannot believe you typed that out and then hit return. 

Why?

1. I know it's true in restaurants which I visit.

2. I think waiters and cooks should get a reasonable income.

3. The staff has to be paid. Does it matter if a restaurant charges i.e. 1000B + 10% services charge or 1100B and "no" service charge? It's the same.

[White Christmas13]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

First mistake.

He needs the service charge because he is going bankrupt.

[meand]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why?

1. I know it's true in restaurants which I visit.

2. I think waiters and cooks should get a reasonable income.

3. The staff has to be paid. Does it matter if a restaurant charges i.e. 1000B + 10% services charge or 1100B and "no" service charge? It's the same.

I hope you will forgive me when I say I do not believe every "good place (restaurant)" in Thailand gives their employees 100% of the service fees they charge. 

 

1. There are some serious problems in there man. "I know it is true" usually does not fly for one. Hey Nixon, how do you know there were no recordings: "I just simply know it is true". 

 

2. And I am really not the type to go all step by step like this, but in your case each one is so bad. I do not believe Thai businessmen care who you think should get, or what you think a reasonable income is. 

 

3. "The staff has to be paid". I am not sure if I even need to point out what is wrong with that. 

 

[jackdd]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

3. The staff has to be paid. Does it matter if a restaurant charges i.e. 1000B + 10% services charge or 1100B and "no" service charge? It's the same.

The restaurant is luring customers with low prices. Quite a few people here come from countries where this practice would be illegal, to those people it's quite annoying.

If somebody is coming from a country like the USA where prices are also not all inclusive, then this might not be perceived as annoying.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

we have this in Canada too in some places, I believe it was a response to cheap ass diners not tipping waiters who depend on gratuity to make a minimum wage job worth their while..

I think it's a lot fairer to make this official.

I was never in the USA but I read and hear often enough that visitors are supposed to tip at least 10%.

So some take out the calculator to calculate what they have to pay.

And it seems not paying tip is in theory legal but a big problem if customers don't pay it - even if that payment is not legally enforceable.

So why not make it easier for the guests and calculate and include the 10% on the bill? As far as I am concerned that is a win-win situation. 

[Salerno]

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Does it matter if a restaurant charges i.e. 1000B + 10% services charge or 1100B and "no" service charge? It's the same.

In my case it does, if I notice it they don't get a tip - win for me, loss for them 

[White Christmas13]

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

Agree though where I'm from the costs aren't hidden. One of the reasons I don't eat out a lot is because besides hating pretentiousness, I find many folks think they can cook but fail and I've just been disappointed too many times both here and in the many countries I have traveled too. imo A lot of good food preparation and quality went down the tube about the same time as 'food porn' became popular - it's all about appearances now a days rather than substance.. 

yes where I come from it is not hidden either it clearly states on the menu the total price

including GST (Vat) the only surcharge is on public holidays 10% which is understandable 

because the have to pay penalty rates. But nothing is hidden.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Eindhoven said:

 

What does any of that actually mean? Good places? How does one know which are the good places that give 100% to the staff?

10% charged in almost all places? Another strange statement.

 

You should do better than this.

Ok, I admit when I eat noodle soup on the street or the market nobody adds 10% to any bill. But then, I don't see any bill at those places, they just tell me how much it cost.

 

[stevenl]

36 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

No need to help me, VAT is added before the service charge, so the (pedantic) figure is 17.7%, that's nearer 17% than 20%.  As I said.

VAT is added after the service charge. So a 100 baht dish costs 100 + 10% = 110 Baht. On top of that 7% VAT, so total 117.7 Baht, almost 18%. As I said earlier 'almost 20%', since to most people that will be almost 20%. But feel free to disagree.

 

Oh, and 17.7% is rounded to 18, not 17.

Edited January 5, 2020 by stevenl

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The restaurant is luring customers with low prices. Quite a few people here come from countries where this practice would be illegal, to those people it's quite annoying.

If somebody is coming from a country like the USA where prices are also not all inclusive, then this might not be perceived as annoying.

And how long do you have to be in Thailand to get used to that? Maybe a week?

As far as I know this forum is mostly for farangs who live in Thailand. Do we really have to explain everything to anybody who does not learn from experience?

Maybe next we have a thread: Why do the cars drive on the wrong side of the road in Thailand?

Get used to it!

[bkk6060]

31 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think it's a lot fairer to make this official.

I was never in the USA but I read and hear often enough that visitors are supposed to tip at least 10%.

So some take out the calculator to calculate what they have to pay.

And it seems not paying tip is in theory legal but a big problem if customers don't pay it - even if that payment is not legally enforceable.

So why not make it easier for the guests and calculate and include the 10% on the bill? As far as I am concerned that is a win-win situation. 

Many of the restaurants in the US now have a tip calculation at the bottom of the bill.

But, it starts at 15% to 17 then 20% listing the amount to tip based on the bill.

10% will probably get a person a dirty look from the staff.

Not saying it is right, just the way it is in many places.

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by bkk6060

[Salerno]

25 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why do the cars drive on the wrong side of the road in Thailand?

They don't 

[Number 6]

Couldn't agree more. 

 

The thing is the service is usually dreadful and not worth paying anything for. The entire concept of paying a service fee in any restaurant that is not too notch food and service is absurd. It's just 10% in the restaurant's pocket. I won't pay it.

 

We were eating at Sushi Hiro. No service charge, 10% for cash. The service became so bad we stopped going. I won't go into details. Sashimi portions were cut as well.

 

Steaks in general a bad bet almost anywhere. Italian, good Italian is ridiculously expensive.

 

Just eat Thai! :-)

[tabarin]

I hate it when they do it so sneaky, happened to me at an already expensive place in CM 2 weeks ago. 

 

You would think that 290B for a glass of wine is expensive enough and then find out a service charge on top of it.

 

At least they could clearly write it, like you don't put the prices of food and drinks in the smallest font too.

 

(On top of that they changed happy hour times without notice, many returning customers were unpleasant surprised by having a bill double the usual).

Edited January 5, 2020 by tabarin

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, scottiddled said:

 

The whole thing comes down to principles far more than money. Even if I don't care about a few hundred baht, or even if I'd ultimately tip that much (or more) anyway, I care about the principles. I wish others would, too. It'd cut down on the scams, exploitation, etc. I guess in some ways, farangs are more Thai than Thais when it comes to just letting it go.

I totally agree with what your saying, however I have found the same with you when it comes to dealing with Thai's, and 99.99% the response is "up to you".

 

The same thing happened to me and my wife years ago when we were at a waterfront restaurant at Pattaya while on holidays, we enjoyed the meal and were then provided with the 10% surcharge, my wife said why weren't we advised of this charge, the person serving us said it is in the menu and pointed it out in the small print at the very bottom of the page. I said, darling that is there way of notifying us not to come back EVER again, pay the bill and do not tip them one baht, of which she said, no I will tip them and she did, she put in one baht on top of the exact money to pay the bill, smart girl my Mrs, she is.

 

Lesson learnt, we were pi$$ed, as you say, not because of the 10% but the principal, I mean how hard is it to say, good evening sir/madam, we charge a 10% surcharge in this restaurant, would you like a menu ? then we can make a decision, as opposed to feeling as if they have pulled the rug from under our feet, so whenever we eat at a restaurant now, which is rare, we check the menu and on top of that ask if there is a service charge, and if we hear yes 10%, we ask, so when were you going to advise us of this, at the end of the meal when we already ate, and will then get up and leave, although there was "one" time the owner at a waterfront restaurant in Hua Hin who was providing us with the menus (table for 6), staff ready to serve us, replied yes 10% surcharge, with my wife serving the owner the usual mouthful in Thai as above, and then the usual, well we won't be eating here then, and stood up, but this time, a first, the owner quickly replied mai pen rai, no surcharge, and tried to make up an excuse, it's a government charge, would you like some drink now, and we laughed and ordered, but you wouldn't believe it, the 10% surcharge was on the bill, and when my Mrs brought it to her attention, she said she told the girl no surcharge, she forgot, mai pen ria, take 10% off, I call that sly........

 

The business was dead as we were the only people there, perhaps as you say, the more that object and make a stand, the more business owners may be prepared to adapt and survive or go under as I hear a lot of restaurants are going broke currently as tourism numbers are down, blame the baht, I blame the one hit wonders of Thailand, I mean how many times can you try to scam people and expect them to return ?

 

Now, we check everything, even down to using our debit cards, i.e. do you charge a fee, yes 5%, oh well, I won't be purchasing those 4 tyres worth 19,200 baht if you want to charge me for using my own money, no fee, no fee, I mean you have to raise it with them, should be second nature, just include it in the price of the tyres, we won't know any different, this is how the big department stores do it, i.e. they factor it into the price, regardless if your paying by cash or debit card, as for credit cards, I understand the merchant charges, but not on debit cards.

 

Stand your ground, don't get angry, get even !  

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

The restaurant is luring customers with low prices. Quite a few people here come from countries where this practice would be illegal, to those people it's quite annoying.

If somebody is coming from a country like the USA where prices are also not all inclusive, then this might not be perceived as annoying.

In Australia, a service charge used to be for the additional cost that it would cost an owner to employ someone on the weekend, i.e. time and a half for a Saturday and double time for a Sunday, well the government did away with that and staff are now paid the normal 8 hours, no doubt the service charge is out the window ?

[varun]

It's very simple.

Some restaurants show the net price on the menu and include a footnote - something like "Not including 10% service charge and 7% VAT"

 

Others include the 10% service charge into their prices displayed on the menu.

You're paying for the service charge, one way or the other.

 

Whether the F&B staff actually get a portion of the service charge is another issue.

 

Don't really see what the cheap charlies are bitching about.
If you don't like service charges at restaurants, cook at home.

 

[stevenl]

13 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Now, we check everything, even down to using our debit cards, i.e. do you charge a fee, yes 5%, oh well, I won't be purchasing those 4 tyres worth 19,200 baht if you want to charge me for using my own money, no fee, no fee, I mean you have to raise it with them, should be second nature, just include it in the price of the tyres, we won't know any different, this is how the big department stores do it, i.e. they factor it into the price, regardless if your paying by cash or debit card, as for credit cards, I understand the merchant charges, but not on debit cards.

I think it much more honest to only charge the people using the debit card for that use, and not others. Debit cards and credit cards occur the same charge to the merchant BTW, so making a distinction there does not make sense.

 

But this is going off topic.

 

Agree with the rest of your post.

[Golden Triangle]

So many people & so many opinions and examples, I have clearly stated my position on the service charge earlier in the thread.

 

On a trip to the US of A many many years ago I used to use the restaurant and bar at the hotel I was staying in, I'd had a few beers at the bar and a meal whilst watching the Pelicans diving for fish, I paid my bill and wandered off to my room, when I went back to the restaurant the following evening the same waitress was on duty and served me, it didn't take her long to address the lack of tip issue ???? I've been to the states more than once and should have realised my mistake so I apologised and when finished left a double tip, I forgot that they rely on tips to make up their rubbish salary.

 

Here however is a different kettle offish, in my very early days I would tip 10% of the bill, about standard in the UK, was soon put right on that by a female Thai friend, ???? 

 

And now ? when I go to one of my favourite bars, after 7 years they still still try to get an extra tip for lousy service by giving you 5 one Baht pieces and 20's in your change hoping to get 25 baht tip cos no one wants 5 1 baht pieces do they ? Now I just leave the shrapnel if they try that one on. Apart from that all is good, I give good tips when deserved, but rarely eat in high end joints.