oceans rising

[Thomas J]

On 1/6/2020 at 3:51 PM, samuttodd said:

the climate has been hotter and colder than it is today.

 

The same thing that is happening on other planets in our solar system is happening here.  Climate catastrophes and increases of storms.     The sun and it's cycles is the main driver of these cyclic changes.  

The earth has gone through glacier and inter-glacial periods for millions of years.  The orbit around the sun changes also the rotation of the earth is like a top and it wobbles changing temperatures.  Volcanoes emit far far far more carbon dioxide than all of human activities.  

[VocalNeal]

11 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

I have seen the climate change during my lifetime, including during the short period of 20 years I have spent in Thailand.

Climate change or weather change? 

[RideJocky]

24 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The only thing missing with the ongoing changes are the "millions".

 

I have seen the climate change during my lifetime, including during the short period of 20 years I have spent in Thailand.

 

If plate tectonic was occuring at the same pace (which is more or less supposed to be the case) we wouldn't be able to stand on our feet...and there wouldn't be any condos for the Chinese to buy, in Bangkok or anywhere else...

You are only seeing changes in weather, not climate. 
 

 

[Kerryd]

We are currently in a "de-glaciation" phase of the latest cycle in the ever present "climate change" that has been going on ever since the planet was formed.

 

Over 150 BG (Before Greta) scientists KNEW that the earth's rotation and it's axial tilt were the cause of climate change. Over 100 BG, one scientist was able to calculate the cycles (which were then named after him and are now known as the "Milankovitch Cycles").

Scientists today are still fine tuning his theory to try and account for all the variables, such as how much solar radiation is reflected back into the atmosphere by the frozen parts of the planet and how the frequency (cycles) of earth's axial tilt affect the warming/cooling cycles in relation to earth's relative position towards the sun. (Earth's orbit isn't stable, nor is it perfectly symmetrical. At times the earth drifts a little closer to the sun and is tilted so that the northern hemisphere receives more sunshine and we get "global warming". At other times (which span 10s of thousands of years) the orbit slowly drifts away from the sun ever so slightly. If the axial tilt is such that the northern hemisphere receives less sun, we go into a cooling or "glaciation" phase.)

Actual scientists have determined that all the CO² we are pumping into the atmosphere is actually delaying the start of the next "glaciation" phase by as much as 500-1,500 years.

Not a full blown "ice age" but a "global cooling" period that could last thousands of years and see large areas of the planet frozen over (again) to an extent not seen in 11,000+ years.

FYI - 700 million years ago the earth was pretty much frozen over right to the equators. That was known as the Cyrogenian Ice Age and it lasted over 85 MILLION years. Oh and pretty much all life on the planet was extincted as well.

We've had 5 major "Ice Ages" since then and they all had 2 things in common.

 

They lasted millions of years.

They all started as a result of a lack of CO² in the atmosphere.

Oh and another thing they shared - almost all life on the planet was wiped out each time.

Basically it works like this.
Life finds a way to absorb/convert the CO² in the atmosphere (i.e. through photosynthesis). 

CO² levels in the atmosphere drop to the point that the planet can't keep itself warm.

An Ice Age starts, which, as more area is frozen, accelerates the cooling process.

Most life on the planet is wiped out as ice covers the planet.

Volcanic and tectonic plate activity release massive amounts of CO² into the atmosphere (but there is no "life" left to absorb/convert it so it builds up).
The planet starts warming up enough to counter the cold.

Life flourishes (literally explodes) as the planet warms up. The more ice that melts, the more life that springs up.
Life begins to absorb more CO² than is being put into the atmosphere.
CO² levels in the atmosphere drop to the point that the planet can't keep itself warm.

(repeat every few 10s of millions of years or so)

It really makes me weep when I hear all the climate hoaxers trying to blame it all on "mankind". Yes, we are having an effect on it but - if every human on the planet died today, and every carbon burning machine and fart producing animal all disappeared tomorrow,

Climate Change would STILL happen !!

NO amount of "cap and trade" schemes or "Carbon Taxes" is going to change that. Period.

 

Not until "man" figures out how to precisely regulate the exact right amount of CO² in the atmosphere, and can come to a consensus on how much of the planet should stay frozen and how much should be allowed to "flourish". (And you know they will never agree to anything unless there's profit in it for them, and there isn't much profit in a frozen wasteland).

In fact, "man" will probably figure out how to stabilize earth's rotation and axial tilt long before they can come to an agreement on whether the planet is better off as an ice cube where all life dies or a "greenhouse" where life flourishes.

Now here is something else to think about.

The more of the planet that is frozen over, the less land there is available for agriculture and just plain living.

Ice caps and glaciers are made of normal, plain, fresh water. Not "salt water". As the planet freezes, more and more fresh water gets trapped as ice. The oceans become "saltier" as they shrink. (Ever seen pictures of the huge salt mines underground ? Guess how all that salt got there.)

Less ocean is available for phytoplankton to populate and as they provide 50-75% of the oxygen we breathe, the fewer of them means less oxygen for us. (Scientists have also determined that trees and plants tend to grow larger when there is more CO² in the atmosphere. More frozen land = fewer trees and plants.)

As the polar ice caps and glaciers grow, they reflect more solar radiation back into space. This accelerates the cooling process to the point it becomes unstoppable.
More fresh water is trapped in the form of ice and snow and isn't evaporating into the atmosphere and coming back in the form of rain. Rivers and lakes will freeze up, trapping even more fresh water.

And think about how many places are already suffering from a lack of water. Image when most of the planet's supply of fresh water is trapped in the form of ice. 

We are going into a "greenhouse earth" phase and there is literally nothing we can do to stop it so the alternative is to accept that it is going to happen and plan for the resultant consequences.

Like rising ocean levels. Maybe STOP frikken building on flood plains and on the very edge of the oceans for a start.

But no. We are smart enough to calculate a thousand variables that can affect climate change but too stupid to figure out that we shouldn't build skyscrapers on river deltas at the edge of an ocean.

But don't worry. A few hundred years from now, between man and nature we'll have sucked most of the CO² out of the atmosphere and plunged the planet into an Ice Age that'll wipe us all out.

 

Can't wait to hear all the climate hoaxers start crying "Waaaaaa - Global Cooling !! We have to pump more CO² into the atmo or we'll all freeze to death !"

 

[allanos]

54 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The only thing missing with the ongoing changes are the "millions".

 

I have seen the climate change during my lifetime, including during the short period of 20 years I have spent in Thailand.

 

If plate tectonic was occuring at the same pace (which is more or less supposed to be the case) we wouldn't be able to stand on our feet...and there wouldn't be any condos for the Chinese to buy, in Bangkok or anywhere else...

No, you have not seen climate change! Twenty years is a far too small time period to observe it. It needs thousands of years at the very least. What you have witnessed is a changing weather pattern, perhaps, which has nothing whatsoever to do with climate change.

[Mick501]

Many of the climate doomsayers and leading lights seem to have existing water front homes.   They can't be too worried.

[khunPer]

On 1/5/2020 at 7:54 PM, habuspasha said:

I don't consider climate central to be wildly alarmist.  I think they are conservative since they don't try to factor in such scenarios as arctic and antarctic glacial melt or other tipping events. Nor do I think a 30 year projection suddenly occurs on the last day of the 29th year.  I welcome your thoughts.

I was offered a mountain top, more than 500 meter above sea level, on the island I live in Golf of Thailand; I however ended up with a beachfront land, which I don't regret.

 

And should the sea level rise by a foot or so in 2050 it just mean, that the beach terrasse would be a little more wet during a high tide monsoon-storm, and I would enjoy being 100 years old when sitting in my study watching the weather, and posting about it to the Thaivisa forum readers, reporting that it's just like when the worst storm in some 50 years, the storm Pabuk passed by in 2019, not at all as bad as predicted...????

 

You should read (among others) these article, if you worry about sea levels and flooding...

"Humans Can Survive Underwater"

and

"Examining the Latest False Alarm on Climate"

 

 

[GreasyFingers]

On 1/6/2020 at 5:28 AM, Gecko123 said:

Climate change is already a significant factor influencing location decisions all over the world. Sea level rise along coast lines is but one impact. The agricultural sector will be impacted due to drought, more extreme weather events, ground water depletion, and invasive agricultural pests. Thailand's tourism sector, highly dependent on its beaches and coastal cities to attract visitors, will be Impacted. Its fisheries will be impacted due to rising and warming oceans. The cost of living will be impacted due to rising food production costs. Wildfire risk is already heightened - just look at what's going on in Australia. All of the above will put ever more stress on Thailand's social fabric.

"The sky is falling": chicken little

[GreasyFingers]

On 1/6/2020 at 5:32 PM, tifino said:

 

maybe NZ is itself rising on a volcanic bubble?

Or as a result of the last Ice Age, the same as Australia.

[GreasyFingers]

2 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Can't wait to hear all the climate hoaxers start crying "Waaaaaa - Global Cooling !! We have to pump more CO² into the atmo or we'll all freeze to death !"

Great summary of what is really happening.

[Laza 45]

13 hours ago, fruitman said:

Plus the last flooding came from the river, not from the sea.

..and why did the flood come from the river?   Rising sea level and storm surge prevented the flow into the ocean.. 

 

[fruitman]

14 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

..and why did the flood come from the river?   Rising sea level and storm surge prevented the flow into the ocean.. 

 

Because it came from Chiang mai, was easy to see on satellite images....

[Lacessit]

Many military organizations and seaside councils world-wide are doing risk assessments on the effect sea level rises will have on their areas of responsibility. And they are not usually alarmist.

Most of the forecasts are highly conservative, and based on linear trends. A Black Swan event throws all those forecasts into the dustbin. For example, the entire Greenland ice cap melting would result in a sea level rise of 6 metres. Bangkok is only 1 metre above sea level.

True, the Dutch can keep the sea out. The Obamas can presumably afford seawalls as well. Not much help to Joe Citizen. The cost of denying Mother Nature her dues comes high.

Of course, the powers that be in Bangkok are never going to admit the city is unsustainable long term. That would scare foreign investment away.

I've made some dumb financial decisions in my life. Buying a condo in Bangkok is not one of them, or ever will be.

 

[Nyezhov]

18 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Buying a condo in Bangkok is not one of them, or ever will be.

Well hell, you were an old geezer when they first started building Western style Condos here, obviously you arent buying, bet you never thought you'd make it this far.

 

I just read an article which postulates that climate change will make Oz  uninhabitable.

[Chilon]

Sea level has not risen significantly in Sydney harbour in over 100 years.   The pacific islands are mainly gaining area, not losing it.

 

Every doomsday prediction so far has been wrong, tipping points have been reached and nothing has tipped over other than the climateers bank accounts.

 

Ignore the so called Climate Scientists most of whom are not qualified in the areas they pontificate but looking for more grant money.

[Guest]

On 1/6/2020 at 6:20 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps you do not know the real reason why Bangkok is in danger. The city is sinking, not the oceans rising.

Exactly! 

[rickudon]

Usual misinformation here .....

 

First, sea level is rising, yes about 1.6 mm per year average last century, but has been speeding up and now 3 mm per year. What it does mean is that your sea front home is probably safe for this century if it is one metre or more above the high tide mark ... as long as non-sea level rise effects don't get you!

 

Be more worried about likelihood of storm surges and tsunamis. Tectonics also need to be considered. Some land is sinking (typically river deltas, with large alluvial deposits, like New Orleans. Bangkok) some rising (like Scotland due to isostatic response to the end of the last iceage). Areas on the edges of tectonic plates also tend to be either pushed down or pushed up. New Zealand is one such area, which is why it has volcanoes and earthquakes - the big Christchurch earthquake raised the seashore by up to one metre, offsetting a few hundred years of sea level rise. Because New Zealand is tectonically active, sea level changes there are more likely due to tectonics than climate.

 

People forget that sea levels changes are only relevant to climate change when looked at globally - it is an AVERAGE.

Meanwhile we have a few nutters who think the sun goes Nova every 12,000 years - if it did the earth wouldn't even exist .....

 

Oh, and someone said volcanoes produce more CO2 than humans - totally wrong - 

 

Quote

According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world's volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide.

Thaivisa - the home of fake news ..... i hate it when facts are totally wrong, or misrepresented.

[Elmer Fudd]

I think we've gone past the point of no return with this climate change stuff. I think the world is doomed and don't let it bother me.

[Laza 45]

7 hours ago, fruitman said:

Because it came from Chiang mai, was easy to see on satellite images....

...unprecedented heavy rains ..it all came down the Chao Phraya river system.. and when it got to Bangkok it overflowed the banks of the river because of sea level rise, storm surge and king tide..  

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/8/2020 at 6:05 AM, habuspasha said:

For an answer to the question “If sea-level rise is only 2–3 millimetres per year, then why worry?” see https://niwa.co.nz/natural-hazards/hazards/sea-levels-and-sea-level-rise.

Thanks for the link. Far as I can see it's all sometime in the future and if we don't start to do something now we deserve to drown anyway. Being NZ I doubt anything will happen. No major project seems to be done as there is always someone that thinks it's a bad idea, like building hydro dams. They've been talking about another bridge in Auckland for decades and no closer to happening now than 30 years ago.

This can be enough, in combination with a severe storm-tide event, to cause seawater inundation of low-lying coastal margins, as occurred in parts of Auckland in 2011 and 2014.

If a rising tide drowned that entire city, most NZers would cheer, IMO. <deleted> JAFAs.

 

Water mass is added to the oceans from melting or break-up of land-based ice stores such as glaciers and polar ice sheets (particularly Greenland and West Antarctica).

What none of those clowns scientists ever mention is that if global temperatures rise, it will start to snow in Antarctica, which could very well balance out any land ice lost. I doubt any have done studies on that as it would detract from the "global warming is going kill us all" theory that makes them wealthy.

Of course, all the sea ice could be lost from Antarctica, Greenland and the Arctic without raising sea level at all.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, rickudon said:

Oh, and someone said volcanoes produce more CO2 than humans - totally wrong - 

What about if there was another Krakatoa? That'd put a bit more pollution into the atmosphere than usual.

How about all the forest fires in Sth America, Africa, Australia and SEA?

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Climate change or weather change? 

I have seen climate change in NZ since the 70s. The snow level on the southern alps rose so much that the ski field I used had to remove the lower tows as not enough snow, and a lake used every winter for skating does not freeze any more.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Maybe STOP frikken building on flood plains and on the very edge of the oceans for a start.

But no. We are smart enough to calculate a thousand variables that can affect climate change but too stupid to figure out that we shouldn't build skyscrapers on river deltas at the edge of an ocean.

Good post. Nice to hear some sense for a change.

Anyone thinks we are smart enough to actually do something sensible like the above doesn't realise how dumb humans are. If we were actually clever we wouldn't be destroying our environment, polluting the oceans and breeding ourselves into extinction.

 

PS we wouldn't be spending uncountable trillions of treasure finding better ways to kill each other, and would be spending the money on how to make everyone's lives better.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, ianezy0 said:

That is interesting. I lived in Paraparaumu and worked in Wellington for 3 years and didn’t realise the South Island was not volcanic. Very beautiful though, as is the North. Plenty of shakes in Wellington and Paraparaumu though ???? 

Note age of last eruption.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_volcanoes_in_New_Zealand

			South Island Name Elevation Location Last eruption meters feet Coordinates Akaroa Volcano - - 43°48′S 172°57′E Miocene Lyttelton Volcano 919 3010 43°36′S 172°43′E Miocene Mount Horrible (near Timaru) - - 44°23′S 171°3′E 2 million years ago [5] Dunedin Volcano 680 2218 45°49′S 170°39′E c. 10 million years ago [6]

[Lacessit]

11 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Well hell, you were an old geezer when they first started building Western style Condos here, obviously you arent buying, bet you never thought you'd make it this far.

 

I just read an article which postulates that climate change will make Oz  uninhabitable.

Yeah, we'll probably all have to evacuate to New Zealand, which would be ironic. On the bright side, at least their cricket team would become competitive.

[Nyezhov]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

On the bright side, at least their cricket team would become competitive.

And you guys could root for a good rugby team.

[Thechook]

On 1/6/2020 at 2:52 PM, ivor bigun said:

I was born at the seaside ,when i was a lad ,always remember standing on the rocks ,you could see some walls at low tide ,my grandad told me there used to be houses there ,but the sea had covered them , that was long before his time ,must have had global warming then ,but they never taxed it so they were lucky .

Well if they taxed it those houses may still be above water.

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

And you guys could root for a good rugby team.

Possibly, although it seems to be played by guys with thick necks. We'd bring Aussie Rules with us, thereby enriching the Kiwi culture.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Note age of last eruption.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_volcanoes_in_New_Zealand

			South Island Name Elevation Location Last eruption meters feet Coordinates Akaroa Volcano - - 43°48′S 172°57′E Miocene Lyttelton Volcano 919 3010 43°36′S 172°43′E Miocene Mount Horrible (near Timaru) - - 44°23′S 171°3′E 2 million years ago [5] Dunedin Volcano 680 2218 45°49′S 170°39′E c. 10 million years ago [6]

Er - seems to me there was a White Island eruption recently.

[Brunolem]

15 hours ago, allanos said:

No, you have not seen climate change! Twenty years is a far too small time period to observe it. It needs thousands of years at the very least. What you have witnessed is a changing weather pattern, perhaps, which has nothing whatsoever to do with climate change.

All the climate scientists of TVF are out to explain what I see, and what I don't see!

 

The weather changes, but not the climate, that's a new one...

 

So now, according to our in house scientists, climate and weather are two separate things, with no connection between each other...one can change while the other remains the same!

 

And in order to be sure that the climate changes, I would have to remain another million years on Earth...how convenient!

 

In other words, for lack of sufficient time, the existence of actual climate change can never be proven!

 

Meanwhile, let's drill drill drill...

 

Maybe, instead of wasting their time providing information on a free forum, our in house scientists could sell their expertise to the fossil fuel industry who, after years of denial, has come to admit the existence of manmade climate change...they pay very well and would be too happy to save loads of money thanks to some knowledgeable TVF members...think about it...