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2020: Crackdown on tourists working without work permits - 50K fines and deportation awaits


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15 hours ago, ChiangMaiNomad said:

it's worth knowing that you are contributing as a member of Thai society.

That means absolutely nothing. 
 

That makes you just as important as the first timer who just arrived and is headed straight for Nana Plaza. Makes zero difference, you’re still an outsider. Always will be.

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As a happy digital professional, working remotely from TH for a few months every year*, I say: come get me!   It really would be a fun experience, something to write about in a few years, pl

Dont get caught cleaning your windows

I'm amazed that this would be a big deal, as i wouldn't suspect too many foreigners on tourist visa's working in Thailand .....  maybe a few but certainly not a hundred or even 30 .....   ? 

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12 hours ago, NB1986 said:

Okay so lets assume soneone goes on 4 week Holiday to Thailand, he is Self Employed, like Trading Forex market, Commodities, or Website developer... Someone comes to Holiday and he decides to check about his work or fix something that is wrong... Thai Imm. come and Deports plus 50.000 THB fine for someone who came to holiday but his work is still so important that even in holidays need to be done. As everything in Thailand they should more specify who exactly is Illegal worker there... But as in 2019 even 2020 didnt came with any good news... As far as i saw while i was traveling across Europe people have opened their laptops and doing stock market trading in middle of Train stations, Mcdonalds i really dont see IMMIGRATION COME pack them up and deports them. They should make clear difference in this law between someone who have Company but dont register people who are working and between people who can manage their bussiness themselve even on their Laptop. But ofcourse, Visa crackdown is not in the mood anymore lets bring new stuff, basically all foreigners are criminals, either they overstay, or working illegaly taking jobs from Thai people, poor Thai people really... Everybody is so mean to them

Your confusing many topics.. 

 

1) Europe extends the right to work for a non european company until a tax liability has been incurred. Thailand operates a physical presence test solution, where tax liability starts on day 1 that work is performed. 

2) yes the businessman on holiday violates the letter of the law. It is of course possible to obtain a 15 day work permit exemption (almost no one does, but it shows the legal route) and it is exactly this which immigration (not the enforcers of labour law) have said 'we are not concerned with this', a comment which people who reside here for much longer periods have twisted and amplified. 

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9 hours ago, balo said:

Which people? The online Australian teacher?  He lived here for years.
And we had some Chinese that were operating illegally from private houses. 

I have not seen one case of a westerner working as a remote freelancer that has led to deportation. Staying on a tourist visa , lets say up to 6 months. 
 

How can it be 'legal' when that is the crime that people are charged, and deported for.. If they are here 6 months or 2 years, they were not charged with visa issues, they were on a legal visa and entry, they were not arrested and deported for any visa violation, they were charged with 'working without a work permit'. 

The chinese recently whose crime appears to be signing up for whatsapp accounts (how is that illegal ??) were all recent arrivals, less than 6 months charged with working without a work permit. 

 

You have to have the IQ of a brick, to claim something is actually legal, as in under law not lax enforcement, when multiple cases exist of people being arrested, charged and deported for the crime of 'working without a work permit' online. 

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On 1/8/2020 at 3:09 PM, balo said:

Exactly , it got nothing to do with remote freelancers who stay here only a few weeks or maximum 3 months. on normal tourist visas. 

 

Just so we are clear then.. 

Any digital nomad staying here longer than 3 months, and working online without a work permit.. Is breaking the law ??? 

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9 hours ago, DrTuner said:

You're Thai tax resident after 183days and are then supposed to pay the income tax here, unless the double taxation treaty says otherwise. I would venture to guess many pay no taxes at all. If the taxman got Capone, they'll get a "nomad".

 

If Thais ever get their <deleted> off their chairs, that is. It's a high probability they'll do sod all to enforce anything, I'd say about 90%. Good odds if you're a gambling man. The introduction of the OECD CRS might make things nastier in the future, as some checks could be automated.

Passive income is due after you become tax resident (and only on money brought into the kingdom in the year it is earned). 

Active income, income you perform work for, is due from day 1. 

I agree 100% on enforcement, we are talking about the law, not the way you can avoid getting caught. 

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9 hours ago, balo said:

Yes, so make sure to leave Thailand at least 4 times every year.  Not a problem when you're on a 1 year multi visa, you can come and go as you like.

If I hear about one case about arrests and deportation because of this l will reconsider, but so far I feel good about myself and the way I live.
The point is you can own a business and still live most of the year in Thailand , as long as you do not burn your bridges in your home country.  

 
 

Anyone who believe that to be legally true.. Lets prove who is right or wrong. 

 

Let me gather full evidence of your work, video and proof, the work, the location, the payments, your claims you do not need a work permit.. And lets report it to the labour dept. 

 

I mean, its legal right, they will agree with you, and say no you dont need a work permit to work online, and you win.... I mean, surely someone so confident of thier position will do this ?? 

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8 hours ago, dcnx said:

Many are stuck with families or a wife they can’t get out of here. Others don’t have the money. Many more are addicted to sex and/or alcohol and Thailand is ground zero for both. Some are employed. Some have a business. 
 

Lots of reasons why people don’t leave. It’s easy to see why the majority are here, simply look at any thread or news regarding a crackdown or changes to the price of alcohol or anything discussing prostitution. They are the most popular threads by far.

I think your missing the point.. How are those folks you describe 'nomads' in any way.. 

 

Idont argue that theres many 'digital tax evading residents'.. In fact thats a large part of my point, that these people are not short term casual visiting 'nomads' passing through. 

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8 hours ago, dcnx said:

Many are stuck with families or a wife they can’t get out of here. Others don’t have the money. Many more are addicted to sex and/or alcohol and Thailand is ground zero for both. Some are employed. Some have a business. 
 

Lots of reasons why people don’t leave. It’s easy to see why the majority are here, simply look at any thread or news regarding a crackdown or changes to the price of alcohol or anything discussing prostitution. They are the most popular threads by far.

 

It's very simple ; if the euro continues to plunge, my retirement will be less than 40,000 baht monthly;
it is on this sum that the Immigration offices in Khorat base themselves to grant me the annual extension of my "thai wife" visa.
There is no question that I stay here in overstay; so I will leave to go where?
Maybe in Laos where getting an annual visa is very easy;
  or in Vietnam; I think that having a son who has dual French and Vietnamese nationality, that could help .. (I don't know);
in any case I do not believe that I will return to France or to any European country.
I have lived here too long.

But if I leave, it will be with my retirement so my Thai family will find themselves penniless;
she will have a beautiful house which is starting to age and a beautiful pickup which is already 10 years old and not far from 200,000 km but not a baht for living.
thank you Prayuth and your friends for enjoying the baht more than it really is worth. :wacko:

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14 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

thank you Prayuth and your friends for enjoying the baht more than it really is worth. :wacko:

Another economics graduate I see.. 

 

Please explain by what mechanism the Thai government is pushing up the baht ?? 

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6 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Another economics graduate I see.. 

 

Please explain by what mechanism the Thai government is pushing up the baht ?? 

I am not an economist but you do not have to be a great clerk to know some of them.

And "we" can be helped by some billionaire like Soros ...
It's one of his habits, manipulating currencies to get richer.

 

A very simple way to return the baht to its fair value:
do like the National Bank of Switzerland:
negative rates

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Its simple.. Thailand has a huge part of its economy driven by tourism.. Direct foreign exchange.. Secondly it is a excessively large exporter, car parts, fish products, agri products (chicken, shrimp etc) etc etc etc.. Again direct foreign exchange. This is happening at a far higher ratio in relation to domestic consumption than in other more resilient economies. 

That foreign exchange means Thailand is running a massive current account surplus, and is sitting on huge non THB currency reserves. This in turn is making Thailand seem a safe haven in the region to park funds. 

 

If they sell those reserves for THB, they drive the THB up.. Not down. 

 

If they operate more invisible solutions (forward currency swaps, etc etc) they risk being labelled a currency manipulator by the USA and having financial sanctions applied. 

 

All these are very simple direct cause and effect basic economics 101 that anyone with an ounce of sense and observational skill should be able to see an understand.. Not Soros lizard people making us all poor levels of stupidity perhaps, but still.. 

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Easy enough to get a proper work permit/ Visa. In Pattaya the ones without work permits will not get the required assistance from there employer to get the permit/ visa. Or They simply decide to try to get around and some even dont know its required. This usually becomes a big deal when  many of them are taking Thai Jobs. Immigration laws clearly state  which jobs a foreigner cannot have.....every seen farang bar manager? chances are he has not work Visa, or the Guy running the Kebob stand On Soi Buakhao? Every walk by a Indian Tailoer shop and wonder if that bloke trying to sell you the cheap suit has a work permit?

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13 hours ago, balo said:

Yes, so make sure to leave Thailand at least 4 times every year.  Not a problem when you're on a 1 year multi visa, you can come and go as you like.

It's not consequent 183 days though, you need to stay out of Thailand for at least 173 days to not be automatically tax resident. In the case where you're not clearly tax resident anywhere, the countries where you've spent your time start to compete who gets the loot. Previously many have used this to escape taxes completely, but with the advent of automated sharing of your bank data it'll be far more difficult in the future. 

 

People are relying on the non-enforcement of laws to stay here and not pay tax. It's a pretty safe bet seeing how useless the police & co are here, but at least be honest about it. That said, we've already seen the tightening of immigration procedures, I don't see anything getting more lax as long as the usurpers are at helm.

Edited by DrTuner
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