Popular Post vogie Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, RuamRudy said: I know that most EU politicians recognise that Brexit is not a universally loved policy across the UK but I hope that the wider EU public understand this too. Brexit was comprehensively rejected in both Scotland and Northern Ireland. Brexit is English derived and English imposed. England should own it. Scotland will hopefully rejoin the fold soon. Why do you fail to mention Wales, is it because they too voted to leave the EU and it justs makes it easier for the SNP to have a go at the English. We voted as the United Kingdom and not 4 seperate countries. The SNP wanted to leave the UK long before the EU referendum, so in that respect the EU referendum made little or no difference to how the SNP thought, it just gave them another excuse to start blethering about freeing themselves from the wicked English. Edited January 7, 2020 by vogie 7 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, SheungWan said: Once the election was called, the defeat of Corbynism took precedence over Brexit, particularly as Boris took Hard Brexit off the table prior to the election and couple that with the Labour Party confusion over what policy they actually stood for. The Labour Party has 2 straightforward choices: either it settles accounts with Corbynism or it backs off and tries to pin the tail totally on the Brexit donkey. Starmer (BTW, my constituency MP, Holborn and St. Pancras) is trying to take the second route it appears. More fool him. It would be impossible to settle accounts with the Corbynistas until after he’s locked in the leadership - there are still too many of the rank and file which are Corbyn luuvies who need to hope that the flame burns on. Once/if he gets the leadership, then Starmer should have his own night of the long knives to put the basket weavers out of the misery. Edited January 7, 2020 by samran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JonnyF Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, lemonjelly said: The EU, as a collective has strong trade negotiation power against the likes of Russia, India, China and Brazil. Once the UK has left that collective, it will be in a much weaker position to negotiate trade deals with China etc who will take every advantage of our weakened position. The EU has around 40 trade deals covering about 70 countries. The UK has already signed 20 continuity deals covering 40 countries. And we haven't even left yet. After January 31 we can start talking to countries that the EU doesn't have trade deals with (you know, minnows like the USA and China). https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47213842 Tell us all about that EU/China trade deal ????. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JonnyF Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 35 minutes ago, RuamRudy said: Scotland will hopefully rejoin the fold soon. Yes, nothing screams Independence like swapping Westminster for Brussels. It's a shame that 55% of Scots wish to remain in the UK but then we've seen Europhiles' views on Democracy and the electorate when they lose referendums. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 40 minutes ago, JonnyF said: The EU has around 40 trade deals covering about 70 countries. The UK has already signed 20 continuity deals covering 40 countries. And we haven't even left yet. After January 31 we can start talking to countries that the EU doesn't have trade deals with (you know, minnows like the USA and China). https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47213842 Tell us all about that EU/China trade deal ????. Going off topic Fres trade deals are not always the panacea projected. In some cases they increase beaurocracy and costs as businesses have to fill out additional paperwork in order to comply with specific requirements of the FTA. ( rules of origin as an example ). A company facing these additional costs may decide to export via WTO as opposed to the FTA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, vogie said: Why do you fail to mention Wales, is it because they too voted to leave the EU and it justs makes it easier for the SNP to have a go at the English. We voted as the United Kingdom and not 4 seperate countries. The SNP wanted to leave the UK long before the EU referendum, so in that respect the EU referendum made little or no difference to how the SNP thought, it just gave them another excuse to start blethering about freeing themselves from the wicked English. I haven't done the maths but I am not sure that the Welsh vote would have made a difference either way. As always, however, I am happy to be corrected. But of course, the Welsh are often overlooked and I was guilty of that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RuamRudy Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 49 minutes ago, JonnyF said: Yes, nothing screams Independence like swapping Westminster for Brussels. It's a shame that 55% of Scots wish to remain in the UK but then we've seen Europhiles' views on Democracy and the electorate when they lose referendums. This has been sad so many times, but I am happy to point it out once more - David Cameron did not require the permission of Brussels to hold the Brexit referendum. If only the UK was as democratic as the EU, we would not be having this discussion. 4 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JonnyF Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said: This has been sad so many times, but I am happy to point it out once more - David Cameron did not require the permission of Brussels to hold the Brexit referendum. If only the UK was as democratic as the EU, we would not be having this discussion. Actually my point was not whether it should be allowed. You already had a referendum and voted to Remain in the UK but I would not be opposed to Scotland having another referendum. My main point is... 1. Given that 55% of Scots voted for parties that would remain in the UK at last months general election, I suspect the result would be the same as last time. 2. Even if it wasn't, you would have a hard time re-joining the EU given the qualifying criteria (and of course the UK will expect a large divorce payment, only fair wouldn't you say?). 3. If you were to rejoin the EU, you would just have swapped Westminster for Brussels and would likely be less independent, not more. 4. Building the border should be fun. Maybe the EU will offer to pay? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazes Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, JonnyF said: The EU has around 40 trade deals covering about 70 countries. The UK has already signed 20 continuity deals covering 40 countries. And we haven't even left yet. After January 31 we can start talking to countries that the EU doesn't have trade deals with (you know, minnows like the USA and China). https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47213842 Tell us all about that EU/China trade deal ????. Thanks v much for this link to the BBC report on trade deals. Most helpful, and makes it clear as to why Boris is so confident all sorts of deals will be made between Jan 31 and Dec 31. Also, the link demonstrates that the deals already accomplished are with countries in Africa and S America, whose economies are likely to expand significantly over the coming decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RuamRudy Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, JonnyF said: Actually my point was not whether it should be allowed. You already had a referendum and voted to Remain in the UK but I would not be opposed to Scotland having another referendum. My main point is... 1. Given that 55% of Scots voted for parties that would remain in the UK at last months general election, I suspect the result would be the same as last time. We had a general election, not a referendum on independence. Believe it or not, there are Conservative and Labour voters who support independence. 11 minutes ago, JonnyF said: 2. Even if it wasn't, you would have a hard time re-joining the EU given the qualifying criteria (and of course the UK will expect a large divorce payment, only fair wouldn't you say?). I would expect a fair and appropriate dissolution of assets. I am unsure why you think this would involve significant fiscal transfer in either direction. 12 minutes ago, JonnyF said: 3. If you were to rejoin the EU, you would just have swapped Westminster for Brussels and would likely be less independent, not more. Can you elaborate on what we would be losing by rejoining the EU? Currently we have relatvely limited powers within the UK; an independent Scotland would, contrary to your suggestion, have full autonomy over all those issues which are currently reserved. If they can reside in Westminster, why must they be surrendered to Brussels? 16 minutes ago, JonnyF said: 4. Building the border should be fun. Maybe the EU will offer to pay? Apparently the technology already exists to create frictionless borders - isn't that what we have been told repeatedly by our Brexit leaders in regards to the NI/Irish border? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Laughing Gravy Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 5 hours ago, steve187 said: dream on, keep holding onto the dream of remaining, when will the remainders give up, the potential leader of the commies has The thing is he is Irish, so why does it bother him about the UK staying in the EU. The reason is that the EU used the N. Irish as a bargaining chip for the Irish for reunification. It isn't going to happen and it won't be long that Sein Fein will be campaigning to get out of the EU again. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stevenl Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said: The thing is he is Irish, so why does it bother him about the UK staying in the EU. The reason is that the EU used the N. Irish as a bargaining chip for the Irish for reunification. It isn't going to happen and it won't be long that Sein Fein will be campaigning to get out of the EU again. Did it ever consider to you that many of the posters who are saying 'brexit is bad for Britain' are actually saying that because they care and honestly think that it is bad for Britain? Always these nonsense reasonings 'he is only saying that because he doesn't want to lose the UK contribution' 'he wants Ireland to unify' 'it is bad for his economy'. All these made up reasons tell a lot about your own perceptions. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JonnyF Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 49 minutes ago, RuamRudy said: We had a general election, not a referendum on independence. Believe it or not, there are Conservative and Labour voters who support independence. I would expect a fair and appropriate dissolution of assets. I am unsure why you think this would involve significant fiscal transfer in either direction. Can you elaborate on what we would be losing by rejoining the EU? Currently we have relatvely limited powers within the UK; an independent Scotland would, contrary to your suggestion, have full autonomy over all those issues which are currently reserved. If they can reside in Westminster, why must they be surrendered to Brussels? Apparently the technology already exists to create frictionless borders - isn't that what we have been told repeatedly by our Brexit leaders in regards to the NI/Irish border? 1. You had a referendum in 2014. same result (55/45). Given the complications now that we will have left the EU I would expect an even bigger swing to remain. 2. May I refer you to the UK's exit from the EU. 3. Because you'd be 1 of 27 instead of 1 of 4. In the UK you have a say in who leads via the ballot box. Good luck on voting for Von Der Leyen's replacement, that will be done in Brussels behind closed doors in a French/German stitch up. You'll be a minnow (in the bottom 5 in terms of GDP) of 27 countries. Not exactly a position of power. You'll be pretty much irrelevant. 4. I believe it could be frictionless but the EU clearly disagrees. Otherwise we wouldn't need the border down the Irish Sea. So there would need to be a border. You didn't mention Scotland meeting the criteria for joining the EU. You might want to check the notional deficit in Scotland? Adopting the Euro should be fun as well. Good luck with all that, you better hope the UK/EU trade talks go well. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Laughing Gravy Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said: I am from the EU and believe me, after all that headache, many of us won't miss you. I am pretty sure Brexit will be bad for the UK. The question is when it will get bad enough that the Brexiters realize that they didn't do themselves a favor. Let's wait until 2021 after the transition period is over. Or will Boris change his mind and extend it? And lets look how fast the UK will make all those beautiful deals with all those countries around the word with which they currently still have trade agreements through the EU. Maybe that will all work out fine and the UK will prosper. But maybe not. Let's see. Enjoy the ride! Loving the ride and from the 45 years of bondage that the UK was taken into the EEC (now EU) we will be free. The feeling is mutual we wont miss the EU either. Your message is mixed. the UK leaving will be bad. Or maybe they will prosper. Maybe you just like telling everyone how great the EU and how if you are not in it how they will miss it so much. We have had that argument for 4 years now on these boards. It is tiresome. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, JonnyF said: 1. You had a referendum in 2014. same result (55/45). Given the complications now that we will have left the EU I would expect an even bigger swing to remain. Just because something might be difficult, it doesn't mean that it should be shelved if the net result is beneficial. Hopefully negotiations won't be burdened by the clueless buffoons who were 'representing' the UK's interests in the Brexit negotiations. 14 minutes ago, JonnyF said: 2. May I refer you to the UK's exit from the EU. And I refer you to my response previously. You still have failed to explain why there would be a fiscal transfer. Are you referring to an allocation of existing UK debt? Of course, that goes without saying but surely you understand how government debt works? 20 minutes ago, JonnyF said: 3. Because you'd be 1 of 27 instead of 1 of 4. In the UK you have a say in who leads via the ballot box. Good luck on voting for Von Der Leyen's replacement, that will be done in Brussels behind closed doors in a French/German stitch up. You'll be a minnow (in the bottom 5 in terms of GDP) of 27 countries. Not exactly a position of power. You'll be pretty much irrelevant. Could it be that we are too comfortable in the UK with FPTP that the notion of coalition government is seen as a sign of failure rather than an improvement over our own very undemocratic process? Can you explain how you think we would be 5th from the bottom in terms of GDP? I am intrigued by that claim. According to this, Scotland's GDP per capita is $43,740 in in 2018. By comparison, the UK's GDP per capita for the same period is $42,580. As I have been saying for years, the UK is a net drain on Scotland. 45 minutes ago, JonnyF said: 4. I believe it could be frictionless but the EU clearly disagrees. Otherwise we wouldn't need the border down the Irish Sea. So there would need to be a border. Let's hope you are right, but the Scottish border will be much less complicated. There are far fewer crossing points, for example, and no history of tension across it. 47 minutes ago, JonnyF said: You didn't mention Scotland meeting the criteria for joining the EU. You might want to check the notional deficit in Scotland? Adopting the Euro should be fun as well. Good luck with all that, you better hope the UK/EU trade talks go well. Notional deficit AS PART OF THE UK. That last part is important. The whole point of independence is to pursue a better path, one that works for the Scottish people and is tailored to the country's specific needs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jayboy Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, RuamRudy said: I know that most EU politicians recognise that Brexit is not a universally loved policy across the UK but I hope that the wider EU public understand this too. Brexit was comprehensively rejected in both Scotland and Northern Ireland. Brexit is English derived and English imposed. England should own it. Scotland will hopefully rejoin the fold soon. How would an independent Scotland deal with the currency issue? There seem to be some huge problems whether joining the Euro (EC rules on deficit financing), remaining in Sterling (England would determine fiscal policy) or starting a new currency (international creditworthiness). Edited January 7, 2020 by jayboy 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyf Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 5 hours ago, JonnyF said: Yawn. Are you still trying to sell that 51st state nonsense? Remainers are increasingly desperate for something to go wrong for the UK, so sad. Obviously you are of the opinion that the UK did not become a target as a result of Blair getting into bed with George Bush. I doubt the victims relatives would agree with you. Time to grow up and face the real world. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookiescot Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 29 minutes ago, jayboy said: How would an independent Scotland deal with the currency issue? There seem to be some huge problems whether joining the Euro (EC rules on deficit financing), remaining in Sterling (England would determine fiscal policy) or starting a new currency (international creditworthiness). Currency is not the big issue that unionists like to claim it is. Almost everyone in Scotland realises that initially would would carry on using the pound. With or without a currency union. After that it will be up to the people of Scotland whether they want that to continue, launch our own currency or adopt the Euro as we see fit. Every other country which has left the Empire faced the same issue and every other country got through it no problem. Unless you know of some unique reason why Scotland could not do the same? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyf Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 43 minutes ago, jayboy said: How would an independent Scotland deal with the currency issue? There seem to be some huge problems whether joining the Euro (EC rules on deficit financing), remaining in Sterling (England would determine fiscal policy) or starting a new currency (international creditworthiness). It is not a problem, a country does not have to be in the EU or Eurozone to use the Euro. It can be done by a monetary agreement with the EU. https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/euro/use-euro/euro-outside-euro-area_en 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JonnyF Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, RuamRudy said: Just because something might be difficult, it doesn't mean that it should be shelved if the net result is beneficial. Hopefully negotiations won't be burdened by the clueless buffoons who were 'representing' the UK's interests in the Brexit negotiations. And I refer you to my response previously. You still have failed to explain why there would be a fiscal transfer. Are you referring to an allocation of existing UK debt? Of course, that goes without saying but surely you understand how government debt works? Could it be that we are too comfortable in the UK with FPTP that the notion of coalition government is seen as a sign of failure rather than an improvement over our own very undemocratic process? Can you explain how you think we would be 5th from the bottom in terms of GDP? I am intrigued by that claim. According to this, Scotland's GDP per capita is $43,740 in in 2018. By comparison, the UK's GDP per capita for the same period is $42,580. As I have been saying for years, the UK is a net drain on Scotland. Let's hope you are right, but the Scottish border will be much less complicated. There are far fewer crossing points, for example, and no history of tension across it. Notional deficit AS PART OF THE UK. That last part is important. The whole point of independence is to pursue a better path, one that works for the Scottish people and is tailored to the country's specific needs. Yes, those buffoons have gone now (May and her Remainer civil servant buddies). You'd be negotiating with a government experienced in these negotiations with a huge majority. Re. the divorce payment yes it would be allocation of existing debt and any commitments made to existing UK projects. It won't be insignificant. Maybe the EU will offer to pay for you, they're known for their benevolence. Per Capita GDP won't make you any more relevant. You have a tiny population so even if your per capita is marginally higher than the UK overall, your population is about 8% of the UK. The EU will be interested in your overall GDP, and we're talking 2xx,xxx Billion USD for Scotland and 2.xx Trillion for the UK, not even comparable. But yes I was incorrect about bottom 5, I double checked and it's around bottom 12. Not exactly one of the EU powerhouses though, between Finland and Portugal. If the UK drew a blank getting concessions from Brussels, wee Scotland will have no chance, assuming they let you join in the first place. If not, what then? The English/Scottish border would have to be huge. A nightmare to man it. Not to mention about 13% of Scots who live in England. I'm sure they'd be thrilled at the prospect of this. Screw them though, eh. It simply doesn't make sense, which is why 55% voted against it and would do again. Do you really think handing powers to Brussels by joining the EU federalist project and the Euro will make you an independent nation? The notion you would be independent is ridiculous. Edited January 7, 2020 by JonnyF 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyf Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said: Every other country which has left the Empire faced the same issue and every other country got through it no problem. Unless you know of some unique reason why Scotland could not do the same? Exactly. A total of 63 countries have claimed independence from the UK. It would appear that some cannot stand the thought of having no one left to dominate. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rookiescot Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, JonnyF said: Yes, those buffoons have gone now (May and her Remainer civil servant buddies). You'd be negotiating with a government experienced in these negotiations with a huge majority. Re. the divorce payment yes it would be allocation of existing debt and any commitments made to existing UK projects. It won't be insignificant. Maybe the EU will offer to pay for you, they're known for their benevolence. Per Capita GDP won't make you any more relevant. You have a tiny population so even if your per capita is marginally higher than the UK overall, your population is about 8% of the UK. The EU will be interested in your overall GDP, and we're talking 2xx,xxx Billion USD for Scotland and 2.xx Trillion for the UK, not even comparable. But yes I was incorrect about bottom 5, I double checked and it's around bottom 12. Not exactly one of the EU powerhouses though, between Finland and Portugal. If the UK drew a blank getting concessions from Brussels, wee Scotland will have no chance, assuming they let you join in the first place. If not, what then? The English/Scottish border would have to be huge. A nightmare to man it. Not to mention about 13% of Scots who live in England. I'm sure they'd be thrilled at the prospect of this. Screw them though, eh. It simply doesn't make sense, which is why 55% voted against it and would do again. Do you really think handing powers to Brussels by joining the EU federalist project and the Euro will make you an independent nation? The notion you would be independent is ridiculous. Yeah we got it. You won. Now get over it. Scotland did not make any commitments to existing UK projects. Westminster did that and allocated it to Scotland because they can. Think you will wait a long time to see any money from Scotland to build infrastructure in London and nuclear power stations. Oh yeah population size. Thats the criteria for joining the EU. Thats why countries like Malta, Luxembourg and the like all got told to forget it. The border between, for example, the United States and Canada is even bigger but seems to work fine. The border between the EU and the rest of the world is even bigger but seems to work fine. Indeed the border between the UK and the rest of the world will be bigger. Do you foresee any issues arising from that? Are you proposing to kick out the Scots who live in England after independence? I need to say there is no feeling north of the border that English born residents should be ethnically cleansed south after independence. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OneMoreFarang Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 5 hours ago, vogie said: most people would have thought that a country that pays in 1 billion pounds a month to the EU project would be sorely missed Did the UK only pay lots of money to the EU? Or did they also receive lots of money from the EU? That's what many Brexiters will learn the hard way sooner or later. The EU paid for lots of things within the UK. Will Boris and his government continue with all those investments within the UK? 1 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post vogie Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said: Did the UK only pay lots of money to the EU? Or did they also receive lots of money from the EU? That's what many Brexiters will learn the hard way sooner or later. The EU paid for lots of things within the UK. Will Boris and his government continue with all those investments within the UK? I cannot argue that the UK received some of the money we paid in back as a gift, I had just forgotten how benevolent the EU is with other peoples money. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OneMoreFarang Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said: We have had that argument for 4 years now on these boards. It is tiresome. I agree with you. But it's like seeing your neighbor doing something stupid. First you warn him. And maybe you warn him again. And then there is the moment when you lay back and look how long it will take before the s$#@ hits the fan. ???? 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 8 hours ago, JonnyF said: You and some of the other Remainers are like those US soldiers they found 30 years after the Vietnam war had ended, still hiding out in the jungle looking for "gooks". It's over Bro, dry those eyes and sack up ???? Time will tell. I'm still optimistic that the young generation (not you!) will use their brain to realise that a small island needs support (as you see with ROI) to compete with economic blocs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyF Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 27 minutes ago, Rookiescot said: Yeah we got it. You won. Now get over it. Scotland did not make any commitments to existing UK projects. Westminster did that and allocated it to Scotland because they can. Think you will wait a long time to see any money from Scotland to build infrastructure in London and nuclear power stations. Oh yeah population size. Thats the criteria for joining the EU. Thats why countries like Malta, Luxembourg and the like all got told to forget it. The border between, for example, the United States and Canada is even bigger but seems to work fine. The border between the EU and the rest of the world is even bigger but seems to work fine. Indeed the border between the UK and the rest of the world will be bigger. Do you foresee any issues arising from that? Are you proposing to kick out the Scots who live in England after independence? I need to say there is no feeling north of the border that English born residents should be ethnically cleansed south after independence. I didn't say population size will stop you joining. Debt will probably do that. Population size and GDP will just make you a minor, insignificant member and therefore you have little say and certainly not the independence you claim to crave. Re. the border, it's the EU that will insist on this not the UK. You know how precious they are about the single market and customs union. I never said it will be impossible, but it will have to be built and manned as other borders of the EU are. So you'll have a border on one side and the sea on all the others. Nice and isolated. And you call Brexiteers "little Englanders"? Ah the irony. Ethnic cleansing? Don't be childish. The same rules will apply for Scots as other EU members. In the future you'll have to qualify to work in the UK via an Australian based points system. Sorry, that's the price for leaving. You'll be free to work in Poland and Hungary though, so it's not all bad news as long as the Scots are prepared to learn new languages and live in countries with little shared history and culture. You won't be independent though. Seems a lot of hassle just to swap Westminster for Brussels but if that's what you think the Scots want then let's re-run 2014 and watch Groundhog day unfold with another Remain vote. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JonnyF Posted January 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said: Time will tell. I'm still optimistic that the young generation (not you!) will use their brain to realise that a small island needs support (as you see with ROI) to compete with economic blocs. Small island? Maybe in geographical area but not in economic clout. The 6th largest economy in the world. You're comparing the UK to ROI which has less than 10% of the population and GDP? ???? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 36 minutes ago, JonnyF said: I didn't say population size will stop you joining. Debt will probably do that. Population size and GDP will just make you a minor, insignificant member and therefore you have little say and certainly not the independence you claim to crave. Do you know how much debt the UK currently carries? At the moment it is over £2 trillion and growing at £5k per second. I don't think that we need any lessons in fiscal management from Westminster. But do you really think that the Scottish share would be like a cash transfer from Edinburgh to London? Would international debt management practices not be applied to an independent Scotland? 46 minutes ago, JonnyF said: Re. the border, it's the EU that will insist on this not the UK. You know how precious they are about the single market and customs union. I never said it will be impossible, but it will have to be built and manned as other borders of the EU are. So you'll have a border on one side and the sea on all the others. Nice and isolated. And you call Brexiteers "little Englanders"? Ah the irony. How do they currently manage their borders? Can you give an example of what they will insist upon? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 42 minutes ago, JonnyF said: Small island? Maybe in geographical area but not in economic clout. The 6th largest economy in the world. You're comparing the UK to ROI which has less than 10% of the population and GDP? ???? Well, as you could see you live in the past with your rank 6. A year after full Brexit feel free to contact me again. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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