UK election result 'blew away' argument for second Brexit vote: Labour's Starmer

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

I didn't say population size will stop you joining. Debt will probably do that. Population size and GDP will just make you a minor, insignificant member and therefore you have little say and certainly not the independence you claim to crave.

 

Re. the border, it's the EU that will insist on this not the UK. You know how precious they are about the single market and customs union. I never said it will be impossible, but it will have to be built and manned as other borders of the EU are. So you'll have a border on one side and the sea on all the others. Nice and isolated. And you call Brexiteers "little Englanders"? Ah the irony.

 

Ethnic cleansing? Don't be childish. The same rules will apply for Scots as other EU members. In the future you'll have to qualify to work in the UK via an Australian based points system. Sorry, that's the price for leaving. You'll be free to work in Poland and Hungary though, so it's not all bad news as long as the Scots are prepared to learn new languages and live in countries with little shared history and culture.

 

You won't be independent though. Seems a lot of hassle just to swap Westminster for Brussels but if that's what you think the Scots want then let's re-run 2014 and watch Groundhog day unfold with another Remain vote. 

Scotland has no debt. It had no debt when it joined the UK. So any amount of the UK debt we choose to take will be up to us.

 

IF we join the EU we will have open borders with all the other member states. How many open borders will you guys have after Brexit?

 

Ah so ethnic cleansing is on the agenda but you are going to allow the ones to stay who have money or influence.

 

You know fine well that the vast majority of powers still reside with Westminster.

[evadgib]

10 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am from the EU and believe me, after all that headache, many of us won't miss you.

I am pretty sure Brexit will be bad for the UK. The question is when it will get bad enough that the Brexiters realize that they didn't do themselves a favor.

Let's wait until 2021 after the transition period is over. Or will Boris change his mind and extend it? And lets look how fast the UK will make all those beautiful deals with all those countries around the word with which they currently still have trade agreements through the EU.

Maybe that will all work out fine and the UK will prosper. But maybe not. Let's see.

Enjoy the ride!

The only 'we' that really matter frankly couldn't care less & I cannot see that changing in the foreseeable future. The 'someone else's fault' brigade were well and truly neutered on 13th Dec. Any that are left (oops, I nearly said Remain!) are welcome to tuck in...

Edited January 7, 2020 by evadgib

[OneMoreFarang]

32 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The only 'we' that really matter frankly couldn't care less & I cannot see that changing in the foreseeable future. The 'someone else's fault' brigade were well and truly neutered on 13th Dec. Any that are left (oops, I nearly said Remain!) are welcome to tuck in...

Thanks. And just in case don't forget to keep some of those pies.

[evadgib]

16 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks. And just in case don't forget to keep some of those pies.

I'm knocking 'em out like clay pigeons ????

[kingdong]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am from the EU and believe me, after all that headache, many of us won't miss you.

I am pretty sure Brexit will be bad for the UK. The question is when it will get bad enough that the Brexiters realize that they didn't do themselves a favor.

Let's wait until 2021 after the transition period is over. Or will Boris change his mind and extend it? And lets look how fast the UK will make all those beautiful deals with all those countries around the word with which they currently still have trade agreements through the EU.

Maybe that will all work out fine and the UK will prosper. But maybe not. Let's see.

Enjoy the ride!

Why are you so concerned about the uk?we had a vote and it was to leave, "many of us won,t miss you"the feelings mutual.things not going too well in the los? There you go,perhaps you should consider crossing the uk off your list for when you have to leave.

[kingdong]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am from the EU and believe me, after all that headache, many of us won't miss you.

I am pretty sure Brexit will be bad for the UK. The question is when it will get bad enough that the Brexiters realize that they didn't do themselves a favor.

Let's wait until 2021 after the transition period is over. Or will Boris change his mind and extend it? And lets look how fast the UK will make all those beautiful deals with all those countries around the word with which they currently still have trade agreements through the EU.

Maybe that will all work out fine and the UK will prosper. But maybe not. Let's see.

Enjoy the ride!

Why are you so concerned about the uk?we had a vote and it was to leave, "many of us won,t miss you"the feelings mutual.things not going too well in the los? There you go,perhaps you should consider crossing the uk off your list for when you have to leave.

[jayboy]

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Currency is not the big issue that unionists like to claim it is.

Almost everyone in Scotland realises that initially would would carry on using the pound. With or without a currency union.

After that it will be up to the people of Scotland whether they want that to continue, launch our own currency or adopt the Euro as we see fit.

Every other country which has left the Empire faced the same issue and every other country got through it no problem.

Unless you know of some unique reason why Scotland could not do the same? 

You don't seem to understand what you're writing.If Scotland uses the pound it's by definition a currency union with England, with the latter by definition largely influencing - perhaps dictating - Scotland's fiscal and monetary policy.If Scotland uses the Euro there are budgetary rules which be extremely restrictive.A new currency would be an option but would present huge difficulties in sovereign borrowing (ie expensive).

[jayboy]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Scotland has no debt. It had no debt when it joined the UK. So any amount of the UK debt we choose to take will be up to us.

Away with the fairies.Scotland will have a huge debt on separation.At present Scotland is running a deficit of 7% GDP - that's about £ 13 billion.Figures can be argued about but the reality is that financial terms will have to be negotiated.For bears of little brain this means that London will have to be satisfied with the deal.

[jayboy]

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Currency is not the big issue that unionists like to claim it is.

Almost everyone in Scotland realises that initially would would carry on using the pound. With or without a currency union.

After that it will be up to the people of Scotland whether they want that to continue, launch our own currency or adopt the Euro as we see fit.

Every other country which has left the Empire faced the same issue and every other country got through it no problem.

Unless you know of some unique reason why Scotland could not do the same? 

I can assure you the currency issue is a matter of major concern among financially literate SNP supporters, of which I can see you are not one.

 

 

[samran]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I didn't say population size will stop you joining. Debt will probably do that. Population size and GDP will just make you a minor, insignificant member and therefore you have little say and certainly not the independence you claim to crave.

 

Re. the border, it's the EU that will insist on this not the UK. You know how precious they are about the single market and customs union. I never said it will be impossible, but it will have to be built and manned as other borders of the EU are. So you'll have a border on one side and the sea on all the others. Nice and isolated. And you call Brexiteers "little Englanders"? Ah the irony.

 

Ethnic cleansing? Don't be childish. The same rules will apply for Scots as other EU members. In the future you'll have to qualify to work in the UK via an Australian based points system. Sorry, that's the price for leaving. You'll be free to work in Poland and Hungary though, so it's not all bad news as long as the Scots are prepared to learn new languages and live in countries with little shared history and culture.

 

You won't be independent though. Seems a lot of hassle just to swap Westminster for Brussels but if that's what you think the Scots want then let's re-run 2014 and watch Groundhog day unfold with another Remain vote. 

Scotland wouldn’t be forced to join the Schengen visa free travel area. EU and Scottish citizens (I like the sound of that) will have work rights in each other’s counties.

 

Like Ireland, even after brexit the common travel area will remain and Irish will have unfettered work rights in the the UK. They aren’t considered as foreigners under UK law. Likewise UK citizens will have unfettered rights to live and work in the Republic of Ireland. 
 

I’d say it’s a fair bet that if Scotland does secede then Common Travel Area rules which cover the British lIes  will remain. 
 

in other words, the Scots, like the Irish, will enjoy the best of both worlds. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by samran

[CG1 Blue]

8 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I haven't done the maths but I am not sure that the Welsh vote would have made a difference either way. As always, however, I am happy to be corrected. But of course, the Welsh are often overlooked and I was guilty of that. 

Errr...but you mentioned the Scottish vote which also didn't make a difference to the overall result. Or have I misunderstood? 

[CG1 Blue]

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Currency is not the big issue that unionists like to claim it is.

Almost everyone in Scotland realises that initially would would carry on using the pound. With or without a currency union.

After that it will be up to the people of Scotland whether they want that to continue, launch our own currency or adopt the Euro as we see fit.

Every other country which has left the Empire faced the same issue and every other country got through it no problem.

Unless you know of some unique reason why Scotland could not do the same? 

If Scotland voted to leave the UK, I don't think it would be up to the people in Scotland whether they want to keep using the GBP. I believe that decision would be for the UK government to make. 

I'd like to think the UK would be reasonable and allow an independent Scotland to keep using GBP, at least for a transition period. But during that period you would have the UK dictating fiscal policy, so it would be a currency union. 

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

You don't seem to understand what you're writing.If Scotland uses the pound it's by definition a currency union with England, with the latter by definition largely influencing - perhaps dictating - Scotland's fiscal and monetary policy.If Scotland uses the Euro there are budgetary rules which be extremely restrictive.A new currency would be an option but would present huge difficulties in sovereign borrowing (ie expensive).

The pound is a fiat currency and anyone can use it.

After independence the BoE and Westminster will be praying we keep using the pound otherwise 10% of its value will drop.

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

Away with the fairies.Scotland will have a huge debt on separation.At present Scotland is running a deficit of 7% GDP - that's about £ 13 billion.Figures can be argued about but the reality is that financial terms will have to be negotiated.For bears of little brain this means that London will have to be satisfied with the deal.

Did Ireland take any of the UK's debt when it left?

Australia?

New Zealand?

Canada?

The United States?

Did any of the countries which left the empire take on any of the debt?

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

I can assure you the currency issue is a matter of major concern among financially literate SNP supporters, of which I can see you are not one.

 

 

We can see who is financially literate. Its not you.

This was done to death in the last referendum and yet you still come on here spouting the same nonsense.  

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

Away with the fairies.Scotland will have a huge debt on separation.At present Scotland is running a deficit of 7% GDP - that's about £ 13 billion.Figures can be argued about but the reality is that financial terms will have to be negotiated.For bears of little brain this means that London will have to be satisfied with the deal.

Scotland has no deficit or debt.

Scotland is apportioned such things by creative bean counters in Whitehall in order to satisfy their political masters.

London (by which I suspect you mean Westminster) will have little choice.

For bears with little brains have a look at what happened to other countries which left the Empire.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

If Scotland voted to leave the UK, I don't think it would be up to the people in Scotland whether they want to keep using the GBP. I believe that decision would be for the UK government to make. 

I'd like to think the UK would be reasonable and allow an independent Scotland to keep using GBP, at least for a transition period. But during that period you would have the UK dictating fiscal policy, so it would be a currency union. 

Oh dear god. Its a fiat currency. Go google it.

[CG1 Blue]

11 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Oh dear god. Its a fiat currency. Go google it.

You're talking about Scotland using the pound without a formal currency deal? That doesn't strike me as 'independence', and I'm pretty sure the EU would frown upon that. 

[englishoak]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Scotland has no deficit or debt.

Scotland is apportioned such things by creative bean counters in Whitehall in order to satisfy their political masters.

London (by which I suspect you mean Westminster) will have little choice.

For bears with little brains have a look at what happened to other countries which left the Empire.

 

Ridiculously  

 

Why is it every thread about Brexit hijacked by the usual few plastic Jocks whining about a referendum they lost... I am sick to the back teeth with the whining tbh, face it guys if Scotland or its future really were so important to you, youd not be living somewhere else...

 

Ive come to the conclusion the only thing more enjoyable than telling remainers i told you so is reminding Scots they clearly dont want their own independence, just a sugar daddy. UK or EU tit apparently it makes little difference which Scotland is sucking off. 

 

Back on topic ive tickets to the Brexit celebration on Jan 31 in parliament SQ, its gonna be a great day in London and im going to make sure the taxi on the way in is our local Scots independence whining driver just to have some fun and get the day off to a great start.    

 

 

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, englishoak said:

 

Ridiculously  

 

Why is it every thread about Brexit hijacked by the usual few plastic Jocks whining about a referendum they lost... I am sick to the back teeth with the whining tbh, face it guys if Scotland or its future really were so important to you, youd not be living somewhere else..

 

Tell me about it. Why can’t they stick to their own Mel Gibson “Frreeeedom”  topics. 

These posters had their own referendum and lost that one too. I think they’re just trolling because they have nothing useful to add to Brexit discussion. As one of our realistic Unionists from north of the border would describe them: Subsidy junkies. Do they think they would get bigger handouts from Brussels than London?

[jayboy]

7 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Scotland has no deficit or debt.

Scotland is apportioned such things by creative bean counters in Whitehall in order to satisfy their political masters.

London (by which I suspect you mean Westminster) will have little choice.

For bears with little brains have a look at what happened to other countries which left the Empire.

This fellow is not only ignorant but also enjoys wallowing in his own nonsense.

 

For those interested the following sets out some of the key issues involved.

 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201213/ldselect/ldeconaf/152/15209.htm

[Rookiescot]

5 hours ago, englishoak said:

 

Ridiculously  

 

Why is it every thread about Brexit hijacked by the usual few plastic Jocks whining about a referendum they lost... I am sick to the back teeth with the whining tbh, face it guys if Scotland or its future really were so important to you, youd not be living somewhere else...

 

Ive come to the conclusion the only thing more enjoyable than telling remainers i told you so is reminding Scots they clearly dont want their own independence, just a sugar daddy. UK or EU tit apparently it makes little difference which Scotland is sucking off. 

 

Back on topic ive tickets to the Brexit celebration on Jan 31 in parliament SQ, its gonna be a great day in London and im going to make sure the taxi on the way in is our local Scots independence whining driver just to have some fun and get the day off to a great start.    

 

 

You are whining about people whining?

Enjoy your rally.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, jayboy said:

This fellow is not only ignorant but also enjoys wallowing in his own nonsense.

 

For those interested the following sets out some of the key issues involved.

 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201213/ldselect/ldeconaf/152/15209.htm

Scotland is given a block grant from Westminster. With that it has to pay for all the services in Scotland.

The so called debt and deficit is run by Westminster and apportioned to Scotland. Scotland has no control over what Westminster decides to splurge money on.

You already knew this. 

[Rookiescot]

4 hours ago, Loiner said:

Tell me about it. Why can’t they stick to their own Mel Gibson “Frreeeedom”  topics. 

These posters had their own referendum and lost that one too. I think they’re just trolling because they have nothing useful to add to Brexit discussion. As one of our realistic Unionists from north of the border would describe them: Subsidy junkies. Do they think they would get bigger handouts from Brussels than London?

Wouldnt want to be a burden.

Perhaps its best if we just go our separate ways.

[Laughing Gravy]

15 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I agree with you.

But it's like seeing your neighbor doing something stupid. First you warn him. And maybe you warn him again.

And then there is the moment when you lay back and look how long it will take before the s$#@ hits the fan. ???? 

No its like your neighbour telling you what is best for you and what they really mean is what is best for them. So as a nosey neighbour keep your nose out of it as the British public voted to leave. Deal with it and you can keep your federalised Europe.

 

Why doesn't the EU give every country a referendum if they want to stay or leave. We all know why they won't.

 

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

No its like your neighbour telling you what is best for you and what they really mean is what is best for them. So as a nosey neighbour keep your nose out of it as the British public voted to leave. Deal with it and you can keep your federalised Europe.

 

Why doesn't the EU give every country a referendum if they want to stay or leave. We all know why they won't.

 

And again that same old same old. You're wrong, people commenting are not doing it because it is best for them or best for the EU.

[OneMoreFarang]

9 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

No its like your neighbour telling you what is best for you and what they really mean is what is best for them.

Did you ever consider the possibility about a win-win situation?

Both the neighbor and me can be happy at the same time.

 

And the citizens of the UK could be part of the EU and enjoy all the benefits. I.e. free trade. It works in all directions. All EU countries have borderless trade with each other. That's what people and businesses like.

 

The EU is far away from perfect and needs to be improved in many ways. But is the alternative better? I have my doubts.

[Laughing Gravy]

12 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The EU is far away from perfect and needs to be improved in many ways. But is the alternative better? I have my doubts.

That seems to be the argument from many about the EU but they don't want to change or improve. Ask David Cameron that one.

 

13 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Did you ever consider the possibility about a win-win situation?

Both the neighbor and me can be happy at the same time.

Not when someone tells you what to do and has a dodgy hierarchy.  process.

 

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And the citizens of the UK could be part of the EU and enjoy all the benefits. I.e. free trade. It works in all directions. All EU countries have borderless trade with each other. That's what people and businesses like.

Thankfully the UK people have seen the light and after being tricked and conned into the EEC have decided we will be alright on our own. Like many other countries in the world life outsider your precious EU goes on.

 

 

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Re. the border, it's the EU that will insist on this not the UK. You know how precious they are about the single market and customs union. I never said it will be impossible, but it will have to be built and manned as other borders of the EU are. 

You mean like the border across Ireland. That will go down well.

[RuamRudy]

13 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Errr...but you mentioned the Scottish vote which also didn't make a difference to the overall result. Or have I misunderstood? 

Yes, you appear to have misunderstood.