UK election result 'blew away' argument for second Brexit vote: Labour's Starmer

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, jayboy said:

If Scotland uses the Euro there are budgetary rules which be extremely restrictive.

Explain how these restrictive budgetary rules impact on Andorra.

 

Andorra is not a member of the European Union, but enjoys a special relationship with it, such as being treated as an EU member for trade in manufactured goods (no tariffs) and as a non-EU member for agricultural products. Andorra lacked a currency of its own and used both the French franc and the Spanish peseta in banking transactions until 31 December 1999, when both currencies were replaced by the EU's single currency, the euro.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andorra#Economy

 

You can put up all the arguments under the sun, but it will never stop the history books relating how brexit destroyed the UK.

At the end of the day it will probably be Scotland and Ireland that won the brexit vote.

[RuamRudy]

12 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

If Scotland voted to leave the UK, I don't think it would be up to the people in Scotland whether they want to keep using the GBP. I believe that decision would be for the UK government to make. 

I'd like to think the UK would be reasonable and allow an independent Scotland to keep using GBP, at least for a transition period. But during that period you would have the UK dictating fiscal policy, so it would be a currency union. 

How do you suppose they might stop Scotland from using the UK pound? Will rUK currency bailiffs go into every Scottish home and confiscate any unauthorised notes? 

[jayboy]

17 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Explain how these restrictive budgetary rules impact on Andorra.

 

Andorra is not a member of the European Union, but enjoys a special relationship with it, such as being treated as an EU member for trade in manufactured goods (no tariffs) and as a non-EU member for agricultural products. Andorra lacked a currency of its own and used both the French franc and the Spanish peseta in banking transactions until 31 December 1999, when both currencies were replaced by the EU's single currency, the euro.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andorra#Economy

 

You can put up all the arguments under the sun, but it will never stop the history books relating how brexit destroyed the UK.

At the end of the day it will probably be Scotland and Ireland that won the brexit vote.

Scotland is not a tiny city state like Andorra.

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Scotland is not a tiny city state like Andorra.

Unionists need to make their minds up.

On the one hand Scotland is too small but on the other hand its too big.

Bit of a Jeremy Beadle thing going on.

[JonnyF]

26 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Scotland is not a tiny city state like Andorra.

Give it time, the nationalists have only just started to get a foothold. 

[samran]

59 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

How do you suppose they might stop Scotland from using the UK pound? Will rUK currency bailiffs go into every Scottish home and confiscate any unauthorised notes? 

The Rule Britannia mentality leads them their I guess.

 

Funny reading the objections from some of the brexiters to the continued use of sterling in Scotland.

 

These are the same people promising a unicorn for everyone: amongst other fairytale promises - a  substantive FTAs negotiated and concluded with the EU in the next 11 months and a borderless island of Ireland with customs checks done virtually by yet to be invented technology.

 

But yet when it comes to the not unheard of practice of a sovereign state using someone else’s currency, all of a sudden it is way too hard...

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Did you ever consider the possibility about a win-win situation?

Both the neighbor and me can be happy at the same time.

Not when someone tells you what to do and has a dodgy hierarchy.  process.

Remember how Boris became UK Prime Minister? How many people in the UK voted for him? And how many had the right to vote?

So much about a "dodgy hierarchy".

[evadgib]

25 minutes ago, samran said:

The Rule Britannia mentality leads them their I guess.

 

Funny reading the objections from some of the brexiters to the continued use of sterling in Scotland.

 

These are the same people promising a unicorn for everyone: amongst other fairytale promises - a  substantive FTAs negotiated and concluded with the EU in the next 11 months and a borderless island of Ireland with customs checks done virtually by yet to be invented technology.

 

But yet when it comes to the not unheard of practice of a sovereign state using someone else’s currency, all of a sudden it is way too hard...

On the other hand some couldn't care less as long as Boris delivers on 31st and St Nigel's Brexit gloat-fest is live streamed on youtube from 11pm! ????

Edited January 8, 2020 by evadgib

[Laughing Gravy]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Remember how Boris became UK Prime Minister? How many people in the UK voted for him? And how many had the right to vote?

So much about a "dodgy hierarchy".

Yes and the people voted for him in the election a few weeks ago.

 

Your defence of the EU's democratic process is embarrassing. Let the people vote who should be president and be transparent.

 

I see you like to have the last word but selectively. No answer to giving all countries the vote to leave.

 

You seem happy to be ruled by Brussels. The British people voted in a majority they are not. Deal with it.

 

This is the direction the EU are going.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/chancellor-merkel-says-nations-must-give-up-sovereignty-to-the-eu/

[evadgib]

18 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Remember how Boris became UK Prime Minister? How many people in the UK voted for him? And how many had the right to vote?

So much about a "dodgy hierarchy".

Does your own country perform any better? If so please drop ol' Cummings the full details on the email address he published last week looking for good ideas...

Edited January 8, 2020 by evadgib

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Does your own country perform any better? If so please drop ol' Cummings the full details on the email address he published last week looking for good ideas...

He wants misfits and weirdos. He should visit the UK community in Pattaya from time to time. ???? 

[samran]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

On the other hand some couldn't care less as long as Boris delivers on 31st and St Nigel's Brexit gloat-fest is live streamed on youtube from 11pm! ????

All while waving blue passports and bendy bananas. 

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, samran said:

The Rule Britannia mentality leads them their I guess.

 

Funny reading the objections from some of the brexiters to the continued use of sterling in Scotland.

 

These are the same people promising a unicorn for everyone: amongst other fairytale promises - a  substantive FTAs negotiated and concluded with the EU in the next 11 months and a borderless island of Ireland with customs checks done virtually by yet to be invented technology.

 

But yet when it comes to the not unheard of practice of a sovereign state using someone else’s currency, all of a sudden it is way too hard...

Yeah it's going to be impossible to trade with the EU without a trade deal in place.

 

I mean, look at the top 2 countries that currently trade with the EU.

 

Russia/EU trade is also framed by WTO rules.

 

If the EU want to drag their feet on a trade deal, let them.

 

[samran]

56 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Yeah it's going to be impossible to trade with the EU without a trade deal in place.

 

I mean, look at the top 2 countries that currently trade with the EU.

 

Russia/EU trade is also framed by WTO rules.

 

If the EU want to drag their feet on a trade deal, let them.

 

If most of your trade was dominated by selling much needed energy then you wouldn’t need a trade deal either.

 

 

[JonnyF]

36 minutes ago, samran said:

If most of your trade was dominated by selling much needed energy then you wouldn’t need a trade deal either.

 

 

And the US?

 

 

China?

 

 

Nobody believed your car crash, cliff edge nonsense before Leave won, and we don't believe it after we've won.

 

The 31st is going to be sooooo sweet. Democracy finally prevailed. Keep up the Brit bashing though, it's amusing to see how salty the Remainers are in defeat. Shame most of your comrades have deserted you though ????.

[samran]

46 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

And the US?

 

 

China?

 

 

Nobody believed your car crash, cliff edge nonsense before Leave won, and we don't believe it after we've won.

 

The 31st is going to be sooooo sweet. Democracy finally prevailed. Keep up the Brit bashing though, it's amusing to see how salty the Remainers are in defeat. Shame most of your comrades have deserted you though ????.

Gawd, no hanging around cause it’s fun to see the delusion continue. 
 

Sounds like you prefer the echo chamber though. 

 

no one ever said you can’t trade, but trade, by definition it is limited by tariffs quotas and other non tariff barriers (eg red tape, national preferences).
 

China and the EU are negotiating an FTA, but the ‘F’ in the FTA will be in name only. It won’t be seamless. 
 

I doubt you’ll see a US EU one for a long while because access to agriculture will be sensitive. 

 

With the UK leaving the EU, British exporters are going to face whole lot of these things they’ve never faced before. So your post is spoken like someone who’s doesn’t care if someone’s livelyhood is affected by these impositions.

 

Yes I know i know, Donald is going to save you and you’ll have a brand spanking new FTA with the EU come November. So chest thump away, it’s entertaining to watch. 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by samran

[RuamRudy]

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Give it time, the nationalists have only just started to get a foothold. 

Only just? We have firmly rejected the nasty party and the other British Nationalist parties for 10 years. That's why life is Scotland has improved significantly in the last decade.

[JonnyF]

23 minutes ago, samran said:

Gawd, no hanging around cause it’s fun to see the delusion continue. 
 

Sounds like you prefer the echo chamber though. 

 

no one ever said you can’t trade, but trade, by definition it is limited by tariffs quotas and other non tariff barriers (eg red tape, national preferences).
 

China and the EU are negotiating an FTA, but the ‘F’ in the FTA will be in name only. It won’t be seamless. 
 

I doubt you’ll see a US EU one for a long while because access to agriculture will be sensitive. 

 

With the UK leaving the EU, British exporters are going to face whole lot of these things they’ve never faced before. So your post is spoken like someone who’s doesn’t care if someone’s livelyhood is affected by these impositions.

 

Yes I know i know, Donald is going to save you and you’ll have a brand spanking new FTA with the EU come November. So chest thump away, it’s entertaining to watch. 

 

 

So we're in agreement that the US and China do shedloads of trade with the EU with no FTA in place.

 

Jolly good.

Edited January 8, 2020 by JonnyF

[JonnyF]

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Only just? We have firmly rejected the nasty party and the other British Nationalist parties for 10 years. That's why life is Scotland has improved significantly in the last decade.

And yet you voted to Remain in the UK in 2014. 

 

Look I get that it's annoying, I'd rather you'd have voted to Leave as well but that's how Democracy works.

[samran]

21 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

So we're in agreement that the US and China do shedloads of trade with the EU with no FTA in place.

 

Jolly good.

No. It’s small compared with your EU trade, about half your exports go there. And you are about to reduce your seamless access to that main market.

 

Jolly good! 

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/11/brexit-trade-uk-eu/

[JonnyF]

7 minutes ago, samran said:

No. It’s small compared with your EU trade, about half your exports go there. And you are about to reduce your seamless access to that main market.

 

Jolly good! 

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/11/brexit-trade-uk-eu/

Ah I think I see the problem here, you have a comprehension problem. The chart I posted shows that the EU exports over 400 Billion Euros to the US. The EU exports around 300 Billion pounds (around 353 Billion Euros) to the UK.

 

So it's not small, it's actually about 50 Billion more. Simply put, the EU exports more to the US than it does to the UK, and it has no FTA with the US.

 

Oh, and the UK trade deficit with the EU is around 100 Billion Euros. So if there were a huge issue with having no FTA (there isn't) then the EU would also have an issue.

 

Why do you hate the UK so much anyway? Serious question. You seem bitter.

 

 

 

 

[samran]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Ah I think I see the problem here, you have a comprehension problem. The chart I posted shows that the EU exports over 400 Billion Euros to the US. The EU exports around 300 Billion pounds (around 353 Billion Euros) to the UK.

 

So it's not small, it's actually about 50 Billion more. Simply put, the EU exports more to the US than it does to the UK, and it has no FTA with the US.

 

Oh, and the UK trade deficit with the EU is around 100 Billion Euros. So if there were a huge issue with having no FTA (there isn't) then the EU would also have an issue.

 

Why do you hate the UK so much anyway? Serious question. You seem bitter.

 

 

 

 

That’s the problem with you chest beaters. You think any questioning is somehow ‘hating’.

 

Used to good effect by nationalists and facists and the feeble minded fall for it all the time. 
 

If they don’t like the line of questioning there are ‘traitors’ (sound familiar that one??) or they ‘hate’ your country. 
 

I mean seriously- grow up. 

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, samran said:

That’s the problem with you chest beaters. You think any questioning is somehow ‘hating’.

 

Used to good effect by nationalists and facists and the feeble minded fall for it all the time. 
 

If they don’t like the line of questioning there are ‘traitors’ (sound familiar that one??) or they ‘hate’ your country. 
 

I mean seriously- grow up. 

 

4 hours ago, samran said:

All while waving blue passports and bendy bananas. 

This is not questioning, it is childish, repetetive and quite boring, "grow up."

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, jayboy said:

Scotland is not a tiny city state like Andorra.

And the relevance of that is?

Andorra, like other non EU countries, has a monetary agreement with the EU so unless you can post a copy of that agreement you would have no idea what restrictive budgetary restrictions would be in place.

Scotland, until it became a member of the EU, would be in exactly the same position, a negotiated monetary agreement.

Many seem to forget that until after the UK leaves the EU, the EU has an obligation to the UK government not to comment on domestic matters. Once that restriction is removed the way forward for Scotland will become much clearer.

[samran]

30 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

This is not questioning, it is childish, repetetive and quite boring, "grow up."

This debate has been as much about symbolism than anything else, cause it sure as heck hasn’t been about economic common sense. 
 

And the lack of blue passports and bendy bananas has been bought up as some of the reasons why we all should hate those dastardly continental bureaucrats. So to me they are fair game.

 

People cheered on those childish myths, so why so sensitive that I bring them up? They are some of the brexiters symbolic totems, not mine.

 

But in the interest better discourse, how about I now refer to cleavage?Specifically barmaid cleavage which the Sun proclaimed the EU was going to ban as well. 
 

So come brexit day you’ll also get your boobs back? I can post pictures if you want. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by samran

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, samran said:

This debate has been as much about symbolism than anything else, cause it sure as heck hasn’t been about economic common sense. 
 

And the lack of blue passports and bendy bananas has been bought up as some of the reasons why we all should hate those dastardly continental bureaucrats. So to me they are fair game.

 

People cheered on those childish myths, so why so sensitive that I bring them up? They are some of the brexiters symbolic totems, not mine.

 

But in the interest better discourse, how about I now refer to cleavage?Specifically barmaid cleavage which the Sun proclaimed the EU was going to ban as well. 
 

So come brexit day you’ll also get your boobs back? I can post pictures if you want. 

You are the only one bringing this nonsense up, it is not humourous (maybe to you) so one can only assume you are trying to bait other members and in all honesty you are doing a fair dinkum job. 

Maybe your antipodean humour is wasted on us less than arrogant posters.

You certainly have an axe to grind with us Brits, will you tell us what it is before the 31st of Jan......Independence day or will we have to keep on guessing, suffice to say if you don't hate us, god help us if you did.????

[jayboy]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

And the relevance of that is?

Andorra, like other non EU countries, has a monetary agreement with the EU so unless you can post a copy of that agreement you would have no idea what restrictive budgetary restrictions would be in place.

Scotland, until it became a member of the EU, would be in exactly the same position, a negotiated monetary agreement.

Many seem to forget that until after the UK leaves the EU, the EU has an obligation to the UK government not to comment on domestic matters. Once that restriction is removed the way forward for Scotland will become much clearer.

So you think the EU would treat Scotland like Andorra, a tiny very prosperous principality? Think again.

 

Scotland would be bound by EC rules and its conservative fiscal requirements.Not such a pleasant regime for a country like Scotland (at least when ruled by a spendthrift socialist administration.)

 

Scotland is a great country and has what it takes to be independent.But even the SNP leadership recognise the huge difficulties involved on the currency issue.You don't seem to see any and your reference to Andorra suggests that you haven't thought very deeply on the subject.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, jayboy said:

So you think the EU would treat Scotland like Andorra, a tiny very prosperous principality? Think again.

 

Scotland would be bound by EC rules and its conservative fiscal requirements.Not such a pleasant regime for a country like Scotland (at least when ruled by a spendthrift socialist administration.)

 

Scotland is a great country and has what it takes to be independent.But even the SNP leadership recognise the huge difficulties involved on the currency issue.You don't seem to see any and your reference to Andorra suggests that you haven't thought very deeply on the subject.

So which countries have failed after achieving independence from the empire because of currency?

If every other country could manage what prevents Scotland from doing the same?

[Jip99]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

And yet you voted to Remain in the UK in 2014. 

 

Look I get that it's annoying, I'd rather you'd have voted to Leave as well but that's how Democracy works.

 

 

What has Scotland got to do with anything ?

 

Irrelevant and off topic as this thread is about a Starmer's comments on a second Brexit referendum.

[JonnyF]

3 hours ago, samran said:

That’s the problem with you chest beaters. You think any questioning is somehow ‘hating’.

 

Used to good effect by nationalists and facists and the feeble minded fall for it all the time. 
 

If they don’t like the line of questioning there are ‘traitors’ (sound familiar that one??) or they ‘hate’ your country. 
 

I mean seriously- grow up. 

I love how you avoided the stats I posted and resorted to calling me a nationalist and a facist. Old habits die hard I guess.

 

Top points for remainer bingo, but on a more serious note could you address my points about the amount of trade the EU is doing with china and the US without a FTA?

 

Much thanks xx.