Moving from UK to Thailand with Thai wife and kids - Visa questions

[Eibot]

Hello there,

 

Long time reader of Thai visa throughout the years, but a first time poster :).

 

Situation is as follows; 

I'm a Dutch national living in the UK with my Thai wife and two kids. We recently came to the conclusion that we weren't happy living here and would like to move back to Thailand (mother of the missus also nearing the end of her life). I'm an IT Freelancer and have several assignments running. One assignment is on a duration of 5 years and give me roughly 2300 pounds per month. Besides this I have other jobs that sometimes give me big lums of cash, but my salary on a monthly basis never drops lower than 2300 net.

My wife and I have been married (in Thailand) for 8 years and she is staying in the UK on a EEA resident permit. 

 

After reading into it, my understanding is that I would need to apply for a Non-Immigrant O Spouse visa here in the UK, and extend that into a marriage visa in Thailand. Is this correct?

Furthermore, there are a lot of conflicting information in regards to obtaining a Non-Immigrants O Spouse visa here in the UK. Do they need to see three months of bank statements? If so how much money does there need to be in the account? Or do they only need to see Income - money coming into my account monthly? A lot of information seems to be about Non-Immigrants O-A, which is not what I want since I'm not over 50.

 

Furthermore, since I invoice clients in The Netherlands, Do I need to pay Tax in Thailand (which I'm willing to do)?

 

I hope someone can point me to the right direction! Thank you in advance :)

[Eibot]

Also once in Thailand, too obtain a marriage extension, do I need to have 400K or can I proof monthly income aswell? I see conflicting information on this as well. Thank you again.

[ubonjoe]

What is you status in the UK. To apply for a Thai visa in London you will need proof of residency in the UK. The applications are done online now. See: https://thaievisa.go.th/Home/

The embassy website does not mention the amount of income.

"Financial evidence e.g. bank statements, proof of earnings, proof of sponsorship from a third party

Confirmation of legal residence in the UK or Ireland"

Source: http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84508-Non-Immigrant-visas.html#6

A single entry non-o visa would allow a 90 day entry that can be extended for one year based upon marriage to a Thai at the designated office for where you will be living. You will need 400k baht in a Thai bank in your name only for 2 months on the day you apply for it or proof of 40k baht income. Since you are from the Netherlands you would need to get proof of your income from the embassy in Bangkok.

Paying taxes here will be your choice since they do not strictly enforce it for transfers into the country. Income earned in previous years is not taxable.

[ubonjoe]

Off topic posts meant to deflect the topic (aka trolling) have been removed.

[ChipButty]

What would be your situation once the UK leaves the EU, new passports and all that stuff?

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

What would be your situation once the UK leaves the EU, new passports and all that stuff?

I think you need to read the OP again.

 

4 hours ago, Eibot said:

I'm a Dutch national living in the UK with my Thai wife and two kids.

 

[Eibot]

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

What is you status in the UK. To apply for a Thai visa in London you will need proof of residency in the UK. The applications are done online now. See: https://thaievisa.go.th/Home/

The embassy website does not mention the amount of income.

"Financial evidence e.g. bank statements, proof of earnings, proof of sponsorship from a third party

Confirmation of legal residence in the UK or Ireland"

Source: http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84508-Non-Immigrant-visas.html#6

A single entry non-o visa would allow a 90 day entry that can be extended for one year based upon marriage to a Thai at the designated office for where you will be living. You will need 400k baht in a Thai bank in your name only for 2 months on the day you apply for it or proof of 40k baht income. Since you are from the Netherlands you would need to get proof of your income from the embassy in Bangkok.

Paying taxes here will be your choice since they do not strictly enforce it for transfers into the country. Income earned in previous years is not taxable.

Hi Joe,

 

Thank you for very much for your reply. I'm (or we) are permanent residence in the UK. Have been for the past 5 years. I have seen the financial evidence, but it still seems a little vague to me. How much would they expect, and from how long back. I will try to give the embassy a ring today in regards to that. In regards to the 40k baht income, why would the Dutch embassy need to proof that. And how would they? For the past five years, I had a UK bank account where my invoices are paid into. My plan is to open a Thai bank account as soon as I land in Thailand, and receive my invoices straight into my Thai bank. The invoices are from Dutch and Belgium commercial companies. 

 

In regards to taxes, could I get in trouble if they ask where my funds are coming from, and I honestly tell them I work online in Thailand? 

 

Thanks for your help again!

[Eibot]

6 hours ago, ChipButty said:

What would be your situation once the UK leaves the EU, new passports and all that stuff?

Hi Chip,

 

For EU residence already living in the UK, nothing will change. They will have to apply for a settlement status, which is a 10 minutes free online process and they can stay and work in the UK for the rest of their lives. 

[chilly07]

You are lucky that your Embassy still provides income certification for Thai Immigration but still best to maintain a bank account outside of Thailand and control your income into that account before you transfer it to a Thai Bank (Bangkok Bank is a good bet) so you can show TI where your funds come from. As you work on the web best to keep your options open as otherwise you will need a work permit in Thailand from a part Thai owned company. If you do get a work permit you will need advice on your Tax position. There are many Agents and Advisors that will help you through this process in Thailand starting with an extension of your visa. I chose to use an Agent for my first extension but since then have done it myself based on marriage.

[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, Eibot said:

In regards to taxes, could I get in trouble if they ask where my funds are coming from, and I honestly tell them I work online in Thailand?

Taxable and you need a work permit probably. and the timing of the mismatched Tax years 6th April - 5th April and 1 Jan - 31st Dec needs some planing. 

Less than 180 days in Thailand this year? Move income in Tax Free initially! But detaching from the UK tax system?

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by UKresonant

[Eibot]

28 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

You are lucky that your Embassy still provides income certification for Thai Immigration

Hi Chilly,

 

Thank you for your response. 

 

Do you mean the Dutch Embassy? I don't understand how such a certificate works... I have nothing to do with the Dutch government, and the dutch government has nothing to do with my business. How would they be able to verify my income? Also, maintaining a bank account outside of Thailand seem to be difficult. It's impossible in the UK, nor can I open one in The Netherlands without having an adress. Luckily I have pretty good control over my invoices, and have agreed to be paid every 23rd of every month. This has been going well without issues for the past two years.  In other words, I would get an international payment every month on the 23rd into my bank account..

[natway09]

The work online & transfering the proceeds to a Thai bank (directly) may present a problem.

I do know of many though in similar situations as you explained  that use an offshore account for proceeds & move it into Thailand as needed

[jackdd]

You have a company registered in the UK?

Or which business do you plan to use for invoicing your customers?

Edited January 10, 2020 by jackdd

[cabanlit]

I'm just looking at your normal income - £2300.

 

With a wife and 2 kids and yourself, that's not a lot coming in.

 

You need to research costs better. Look at costs for you - home rental, utility bills, transport, health insurance. Costs for wife - 'pocket money', 'family support'. Then the biggest, costs for kids - education, social costs, and their health.

 

Just because they're Thai, don't expect them to use the health scheme for Thais - you won't be putting your family in front of a Thai hospital or doctor, it'll always be 'private'.

 

And, of course, trips back to Europe and assorted other holidays, perhaps around Asia.

[Eibot]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

You have a company registered in the UK?

Or which business do you plan to use for invoicing your customers?

Hi Jack,

 

I'm a sole trader here and use my own software (website) for invoicing. No LTD as I don't make more than 80k pounds per year..

[Eibot]

1 minute ago, cabanlit said:

I'm just looking at your normal income - £2300.

 

With a wife and 2 kids and yourself, that's not a lot coming in.

 

You need to research costs better. Look at costs for you - home rental, utility bills, transport, health insurance. Costs for wife - 'pocket money', 'family support'. Then the biggest, costs for kids - education, social costs, and their health.

 

Just because they're Thai, don't expect them to use the health scheme for Thais - you won't be putting your family in front of a Thai hospital or doctor, it'll always be 'private'.

 

And, of course, trips back to Europe and assorted other holidays, perhaps around Asia.

Hi Caban,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I'm around 65k last year, and 72k pounds per year the year before that. The only invoice that is consistent is the 2300 pounds per month. The rest comes in batches here and there. I'm planning to live in Isaan.. We have worked it out, but that doesn't seem to be an issue. we're a simple family ????

[jackdd]

8 minutes ago, Eibot said:

Hi Jack,

 

I'm a sole trader here and use my own software (website) for invoicing. No LTD as I don't make more than 80k pounds per year..

This is not possible in Thailand, so when you live in Thailand you will have to setup a company (can be outside of Thailand) if you want to stay legal. Or you would have to join a company like IGLU and route your income through them.

[Eibot]

34 minutes ago, jackdd said:

This is not possible in Thailand, so when you live in Thailand you will have to setup a company (can be outside of Thailand) if you want to stay legal. Or you would have to join a company like IGLU and route your income through them.

I appreciate the help. Will look into an offshore company. Would the Thai government ask for proof that I own that offshore company that the money is coming from?

 

 

[Eibot]

4 hours ago, UKresonant said:

Taxable and you need a work permit probably. and the timing of the mismatched Tax years 6th April - 5th April and 1 Jan - 31st Dec needs some planing. 

Less than 180 days in Thailand this year? Move income in Tax Free initially! But detaching from the UK tax system?

 

Thanks for the response. Paying the tax won't be an issue. I'm just worried about being legal. Seems a bit difficult to get a WP.

[UKresonant]

47 minutes ago, Eibot said:

Thanks for the response. Paying the tax won't be an issue. I'm just worried about being legal. Seems a bit difficult to get a WP.

The work permit system does seem very awkward, but you would think they would be tripping over themselves to give you a work permit. Your not affecting the Thai labour market and prepared to pay taxes from foreign income! But if you do manage to get one, I understand it is less precarious when combined with the permission to stay because of marriage.

Edited January 10, 2020 by UKresonant

[Bullie]

In the 11 years I lived in Thailand nobody ever asked me where our money came from. Best advice for Thailand: let sleeping dogs lie. Money was sent in installments, sometimes paid in large cash deposits into my wife's bank account, with never a question asked. When asked as to occupation: semi-retired, money coming in from rent overseas. Just put the 400,000 in an account, and leave it there if you want.

All problems solved.

For your information: My family and I moved to the Netherlands this spring because the cost of living in Thailand was getting very high, and paying for proper health insurance for the family on top of the cost of a university education in Thailand for my son was getting to be unaffordable on a 3000 Euro/month income.

After all is said and done the cost of living for my family is decidedly lower in the Netherlands than it is here. That on top of much healthier food, infinitely better schooling and child benefits made it a no brainer for us.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bullie

[Max69xl]

12 hours ago, ChipButty said:

What would be your situation once the UK leaves the EU, new passports and all that stuff?

The UK has to come up with a new passport because it's not an EU- country after Brexit. The OP has a Dutch passport, which is an EU- passport. 

[maprao]

2 hours ago, cabanlit said:

I'm just looking at your normal income - £2300.

 

With a wife and 2 kids and yourself, that's not a lot coming in

That's the UK for you. That equates to £36,000 gross before tax  £10,000 more than the UK Average salary. The UK is very expensive and ALOT ALOT of people earn less than that and manage.

 

It is not all his income. There are other lumps sums. If he can manage on that net income in the UK he will be ok in Thailand. 

[Max69xl]

3 hours ago, cabanlit said:

I'm just looking at your normal income - £2300.

 

With a wife and 2 kids and yourself, that's not a lot coming in.

 

You need to research costs better. Look at costs for you - home rental, utility bills, transport, health insurance. Costs for wife - 'pocket money', 'family support'. Then the biggest, costs for kids - education, social costs, and their health.

 

Just because they're Thai, don't expect them to use the health scheme for Thais - you won't be putting your family in front of a Thai hospital or doctor, it'll always be 'private'.

 

And, of course, trips back to Europe and assorted other holidays, perhaps around Asia.

"With a wife and 2 kids and yourself, that's not a lot coming in."

Do you know how much money that is in Thailand compared to the salaries foreigners have working in Thailand,not to mention compared to well paid thai people. And the sum he mentioned is the minimum income/month. What planet do you come from? Check this out: 

[Eibot]

6 hours ago, Bullie said:

In the 11 years I lived in Thailand nobody ever asked me where our money came from. Best advice for Thailand: let sleeping dogs lie. Money was sent in installments, sometimes paid in large cash deposits into my wife's bank account, with never a question asked. When asked as to occupation: semi-retired, money coming in from rent overseas. Just put the 400,000 in an account, and leave it there if you want.

All problems solved.

For your information: My family and I moved to the Netherlands this spring because the cost of living in Thailand was getting very high, and paying for proper health insurance for the family on top of the cost of a university education in Thailand for my son was getting to be unaffordable on a 3000 Euro/month income.

After all is said and done the cost of living for my family is decidedly lower in the Netherlands than it is here. That on top of much healthier food, infinitely better schooling and child benefits made it a no brainer for us.

Hi Bullie,

 

Thank you very much for your advise. Good to hear that someone in a similar situation never had problems. Rent money might be a good excuse if they ever asked. Besides that, we are also planning to move back to Europe wants the kids reach Uni age. Saving in Thailand and buying a house cash in The Netherlands would be nice. Housing cost in The Netherlands are thought the roof, and getting an MVV visa is rather difficult. Maybe I follow your path later in life. Thanks for the advice.

[overherebc]

To the OP.

By far the simplest way is to put 400,000 Thai baht into the bank and leave it there. Much easier than going through the hoops on income per month/year etc.

You can transfer in your living money as and when you need it, Open a second acount for that purpose.

A single entry O should not be a problem as you are married then you convert to a one year extension using the banked 400,000. ( You can put a bit in and take a bit out over the year but just ensure it stays 400,000 plus ).

For the first year just do your IT thing on line and do it from home and don't mention it to anyone.

Your extension for a year will require 90 day reporting to your local Imm' office and most likely you will get a visit at home from Imm' so they are happy about the marraige being real. 

Use the first year to get your head around the rules and reg's on what's there re' tax and WP but don't ask officials or Imm' (big can of worms ????)

Best of luck.

Edit 

Your wife should enter Thailand on her Thai passport if she still has one.

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by overherebc

[spinner2020]

14 hours ago, Bullie said:

In the 11 years I lived in Thailand nobody ever asked me where our money came from. Best advice for Thailand: let sleeping dogs lie. Money was sent in installments, sometimes paid in large cash deposits into my wife's bank account, with never a question asked. When asked as to occupation: semi-retired, money coming in from rent overseas. Just put the 400,000 in an account, and leave it there if you want.

All problems solved.

Obviously TV members don't advocate breaking laws, but "sleeping dogs" really does describe this situation because there is no law here or elsewhere that really covers the situation. I've been here much longer than Bullie and have never been asked about anything to do with my income, work (I have never had a Thai job, by the way, or been paid in TH) or other aspects of this case. For IT nomads, the company-formation options are fine (especially since you are EU not UK), you don't ned the complexity of a TH rep office, and (again, as an EU citizen) e-banks such as N26 or Transferwise are perfect for your needs. Come in on a visa-exempt and go to (eg) Savannakhet for a non-O marriage; I've done that for more than ten years without problems.

Edited January 11, 2020 by spinner2020

[donnacha]

I agree with the last few posters who suggest you simply keep getting paid into your UK or EU banks and withdraw money (or transfer it to your Thai bank) whenever you need it.

Whenever someone mentions that they will work online for non-Thai clients while living in Thailand, people pop up with all this bad advice about forming a Thai company or other complicated and completely unnecessary actions.

Nobody in Thailand will ever care where your money is coming from. Hundreds of thousands of foreigners are already doing this. As others have suggested, if you are ever asked, "rent" is a fine answer. About half the posters on this forum are utterly clueless but that does not stop them prescribing ridiculous solutions to simple problems.
 

The advice to stick 400K in a bank rather than bother with continually proving your income is also good. You will already have to waste enough time jumping through the marriage visa hoops. 400K is only £10K and it can double as emergency money if you ever decide to get out of Thailand.

The cost of living is no longer cheap in Thailand. Your main saving is likely to be housing, but stuff such as school fees are through the roof and generally of startlingly low quality. In relative terms, having more money makes a more crucial difference in Thailand than most countries.

As such, it might be worth your while to investigate some tax advantages of living in Thailand. On the basis that you will have your 400K in an interest bearing account, you should be able to get a Thai tax number. You can provide that to your UK or EU bank, along with your Thai address, to change your account's status to non-resident. The eliminates any annual stamp duty on your cards but also, more importantly, prepares the way to cease paying personal income tax in the UK.

You would need to research this, but I believe that any money that has been in your possession outside Thailand for at least a year is not taxable when you bring it into Thailand. I have never, however, heard of anyone being asked to prove a particular transfer is money that has been in their possession for a year.

Another benefit for your type of business is that, depending on where your company is registered, you could stop charging VAT on sales to customers based in the EU. The VAT rules have been a headache and a major competitive disadvantage for small online businesses in the EU. If you are no longer based in the EU, you can skip VAT, but bear in mind that, if you do have a company, that would need to be non-EU too.

Also, I believe, the address you use for your payment processor (whether your personal address or your company address) would also need to be outside the EU. Some, such as Stripe, do not yet allow individuals/companies from Thailand. They may well come here in the future, and are already available in Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Japan. Local equivalents such as Omise are not quite as good, but good enough.

Again, Thailand is no longer cheap, but the tax advantages can tip the balance. Some Europeans have told me that, for them, it more than justifies the cost of the Elite visa, so, that's a good sign.

 

Personally, if I had kids, I would stay in Europe, mainly because air pollution has such a disproportionate impact on growing bodies. I can understand, however, the emotional pull on your wife to be close as her mother nears the end.

The atmosphere in the UK has been disconcerting over the past few years, but my personal hunch is that reasserting their independence will turn out to be a boon to the economy and the national mood. I like the EU but what it is inevitably becoming was not a good match for the British people or the type of economy the UK has.

As with most European countries, major cities in the UK have become dangerous, but if you are able to work from home, there are many terrific places to live.

The Netherlands is also an exceptionally good country in terms of infrastructure, health, education, democracy, and, most importantly, ambitious self-confidence. Sadly, in Thailand, kids pick up the opposite of that.

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by donnacha

[marin]

16 hours ago, Bullie said:

After all is said and done the cost of living for my family is decidedly lower in the Netherlands than it is here. That on top of much healthier food, infinitely better schooling and child benefits made it a no brainer for us.

This to me is going to be your biggest problems. Many friends with kids are moving back to the UK because of schools. The education here is rote based and critical thinking skills are not taught. Are your children fluent in Thai? Reading and writing as well? Can you afford 500,000 -800000 baht  a year for an international school?  You may well be complicating your kids life with this move.  Please take the time to check out Thai education in this day and age..

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, marin said:

The education here is rote based and critical thinking skills are not taught.

Not if you can afford to pay for a private school. My daughter attends Assumption here and I think it is about as good as she could get back in my home country. Costs 50 to 60k baht a year.