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Eibot

Moving from UK to Thailand with Thai wife and kids - Visa questions

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33 minutes ago, Eibot said:

I don't think you understand what a sole-trader or freelancer is. Yes, I will be receiving my money on a EU account, and will transfer this to my Thai bank account when needed. However, I don't need a business to do what I do. As a freelancer you don't need a LTD, B.V. AG or whatever it is called in your home-country. There is nothing that separates a Freelancer from a regular person, expect the fact that they are required to pay tax in the country that they reside in.

See what i wrote above:

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

As long as your business location can be considered to be in the UK you are in the grey area.

If you receive money in a bank in the UK, have an address in the UK and file your taxes there as a UK freelancer you are in this grey area, because you are considered as working in the UK even if you are physically in Thailand.

If you receive money in Thailand, and/or write your Thai address on an invoice, you are effectively running a business in Thailand, without having it registered, without having a work permit and so on.

Your immigration lawyer probably told you that the first scenario is ok, not the second one.

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5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

See what i wrote above:

If you receive money in a bank in the UK, have an address in the UK and file your taxes there as a UK freelancer you are in this grey area, because you are considered as working in the UK even if you are physically in Thailand.

If you receive money in Thailand, and/or write your Thai address on an invoice, you are effectively running a business in Thailand, without having it registered, without having a work permit and so on.

Your immigration lawyer probably told you that the first scenario is ok, not the second one.

I'm registered as a Freelancer in the Netherlands (No BV) and that is the country where my clients are. I don't have to pay tax there because I live in the UK. In the UK i'm registered as a Sole trader (No LTD), but in 12 months will not have to pay tax there since I will not live there(Checked this yesterday with HRMC). I will keep an International EU bank account where I will invoice from, and will sent the funds over from there through Transferwise to Thailand. In Thailand I (seemingly) cannot pay tax because I don't meet the requirements for a WP. 

 

Nobody wants my tax 😥

 

Since I'm both registered as freelancers in The Netherlands and UK, I guess my business is "considered" outside of Thailand? However, I'm not liable for tax because I don't live there.

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21 hours ago, Eibot said:

I'm registered as a Freelancer in the Netherlands (No BV) and that is the country where my clients are. I don't have to pay tax there because I live in the UK. In the UK i'm registered as a Sole trader (No LTD), but in 12 months will not have to pay tax there since I will not live there(Checked this yesterday with HRMC). I will keep an International EU bank account where I will invoice from, and will sent the funds over from there through Transferwise to Thailand. In Thailand I (seemingly) cannot pay tax because I don't meet the requirements for a WP. 

 

Nobody wants my tax 😥

 

Since I'm both registered as freelancers in The Netherlands and UK, I guess my business is "considered" outside of Thailand? However, I'm not liable for tax because I don't live there.

I would continue to pay tax to the uk. Carry on as if nothing had changed. 

 

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On 1/15/2020 at 10:43 AM, Eibot said:

as mentioned above, this is what the Thai immigration lawyer said that I called. If this is incorrect I want my 4500 baht back.

 

I don't think you understand what a sole-trader or freelancer is. Yes, I will be receiving my money on a EU account, and will transfer this to my Thai bank account when needed. However, I don't need a business to do what I do. As a freelancer you don't need a LTD, B.V. AG or whatever it is called in your home-country. There is nothing that separates a Freelancer from a regular person, expect the fact that they are required to pay tax in the country that they reside in. Problem in Thailand at this moment is that they don't have a solution for this (yet). 

 

Again this is not me trying to be a smart-ass, but this is the information that I directly received from a Thai Immigration lawyer. What else do you want me to do?

Can I have the contact details of that particular lawyer please ?? Because it I am curious what he will put in writing that exempts anyone from needing a work permit for “an engagement of any profession, with or without employer, but excluding business operation of a licensee under the foreign business law.”

 

You see Thai lawyers are notoriously sloppy, incorrect, and bent.. I will pay his fee if he will put this in writing.. 

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On 1/15/2020 at 11:37 AM, Eibot said:

I'm registered as a Freelancer in the Netherlands (No BV) and that is the country where my clients are. I don't have to pay tax there because I live in the UK. In the UK i'm registered as a Sole trader (No LTD), but in 12 months will not have to pay tax there since I will not live there(Checked this yesterday with HRMC). I will keep an International EU bank account where I will invoice from, and will sent the funds over from there through Transferwise to Thailand. In Thailand I (seemingly) cannot pay tax because I don't meet the requirements for a WP. 

 

Nobody wants my tax 😥

 

Since I'm both registered as freelancers in The Netherlands and UK, I guess my business is "considered" outside of Thailand? However, I'm not liable for tax because I don't live there.

Thailand operates a Physical presence test on where the work is performed. 

 

I also operate a tax consultancy from UK Ireland and the Netherlands, I operate over 80 ZZP / self standing EU cross border nationals in NL alone. I offer tax consultancy services on cross border trade, engagement, and taxation. 

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12 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Thailand operates a Physical presence test on where the work is performed. 

 

I also operate a tax consultancy from UK Ireland and the Netherlands, I operate over 80 ZZP / self standing EU cross border nationals in NL alone. I offer tax consultancy services on cross border trade, engagement, and taxation. 

I always thought the Pyhysical presense test is only used by the US to determine if someone can be liable for tax in their home country (I have lived in the states for 6 years). Due to my work, I will be travelling and out of Thailand somewhere between 30 -45 days...

 

As someone who knows something about it. What would be the solution in my case?

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12 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Can I have the contact details of that particular lawyer please ?? Because it I am curious what he will put in writing that exempts anyone from needing a work permit for “an engagement of any profession, with or without employer, but excluding business operation of a licensee under the foreign business law.”

 

You see Thai lawyers are notoriously sloppy, incorrect, and bent.. I will pay his fee if he will put this in writing.. 

"he will put in writing that exempts anyone from needing a work permit". I didn't say this nor did he. How did you jump to that conclusion? Due to the nature of this discussion I will not be putting any personal information on this board. I just google, third result. 

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9 hours ago, Eibot said:

"he will put in writing that exempts anyone from needing a work permit". I didn't say this nor did he. How did you jump to that conclusion? Due to the nature of this discussion I will not be putting any personal information on this board. I just google, third result. 

The point I am making is Thai lawyers are not what you think if you compare them to a western lawyer, often they are negotiators, bribe channels, fixers, and routinely corrupt as all hell. 

If he is giving you legal advice, which you are going to base your life choices on.. Would you not expect him to provide that advice in writing in an undeniable way ? Otherwise if not worth the paper it isnt written on !! 

 

The law is crystal clear it says you need a work permit (or exemption) for ANY “engagement of any profession, with or without employer, but excluding business operation of a licensee under the foreign business law.” if a lawyer is saying otherwise hes a <deleted> poor example of the profession, if he is saying its hard to get caught, then like many Thai lawyers hes advising you to commit a criminal act, and his advice should be viewed through that lens. 

 

BTW what was the precise search term, as obviously 3rd result changes. 

 

 

 

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I will ask him for a written advise. Might not be a bad one. Although, looking at the conflicted information I receive from everyone, I doubt he might do it.

 

As for my questions; 

As someone who knows something about it. What would be the solution in my case?

 

 always thought the Pyhysical presense test is only used by the US to determine if someone can be liable for tax in their home country (I have lived in the states for 6 years). Due to my work, I will be travelling and out of Thailand somewhere between 30 -45 days...

 

I would fail the Physical Presense test, however my domicile will be probably be in Thailand.... 

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Many countries use a physical presence test for determinations in fringe / judgement cases.. 

 

My specialism is frontier workers, so someone who is working in another country from thier primary tax residence, and how to maintain or when not to maintain that link. Lots of factors determine that, who they are working for, if who they are working for has a permanent establishment in the country of posting, point of recruitment, self employed contractor or employee etc etc.. 

 

In your case, any work performed while physically in the kingdom is Thai work, by law that requires a work permit, and by law then 100% of that income (not all your annual income but the income from that work performed) is taxable etc etc.. Fact is Thailands enforcement of this is very weak (almost non existent) and the system of work permits is how the police taxation. Given Thailand has no taxation on savings remitted to the kingdom (a loophole which benefits Thailand very rich) and Thailand makes no attempts to collect taxation on pensions (another category they have the right to, but dont pursue) it is very easy to evade those taxes, the reality is they put so many barriers up, its easier to evade than to do it legally. 

 

  
 

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