Action needed now to save "filthy, dangerous, rip-off, vice ridden" Pattaya, says watchdog

[Leaver]

19 hours ago, CGW said:

Yes, they do - greed has taken over from common sense! exploiting tourists became an easy way to riches, Pattaya would be far better off with half the tourists it gets now, the infrastructure would then, just about be able to cope!

Sure lots of poor folks would lose their jobs, but that was never the discussion, all I stated was that Pattaya would survive & in my view be a better place once the current downturn really bites.

No argument from me that Thai greed has played a big part in what is happening to the tourism industry here. 

 

When you say Pattaya would be better off with half the amount of tourists it has now, so infrastructure could cope, I understand what you are saying, but if greed wasn't a factor, infrastructure could be upgraded to cope, instead of funds being misappropriated. 

 

Another thing is, with better infrastructure, Pattaya could handle the extra tourists, and those "poor folks" could remain employed, which is also good for the local Pattaya economy, because those "poor folks" have to pay rent, eat etc, so some of their salary goes back into the local economy also. 

 

So, you would have big numbers of tourists, and big numbers of Thai's in jobs to cater for them, so the Pattaya economy expands, rather than contracts, which is what we are seeing now. 

 

If Thailand went into a deep recession, of course Pattaya will survive, but can you define "survive?" 

 

The city will not become a barren wasteland, there will still be people coming here, but just like in American during the GFC, you will see For Sale signs everywhere, and closed doors and derelict buildings on every soi, and we are starting to see that here now. 

[Burma Bill]

Quote:-

"filthy, dangerous, rip-off, vice ridden" Pattaya"

The truth at last! So much for TAT and it's so called "world class resort".

 

[DannyCarlton]

23 minutes ago, Leaver said:

If Thailand went into a deep recession, of course Pattaya will survive, but can you define "survive?" 

If Thailand went into deep recession, the Baht would collapse and Pattaya would flourish like never before.

[CGW]

8 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I understand what you are saying, but if greed wasn't a factor, infrastructure could be upgraded to cope, instead of funds being misappropriated. 

Your dreaming of Utopia! nice thought but after all these years of greed and unregulated building & total lack of concern of interest Pattaya is never going to change! too much off a cash cow that a "few" profit from, it could have been different, but there is no going back in time, there was an opportunity for change when the military got involved a few years back, they gave their blessing to the current ruling family! doubt that chance will come around again. There is no will in the higher echelons for change!

No doubt there will be more derelict buildings in the future, be interesting to see what transpires, look at lower Sukhumvit in Bangkok, completely different place to what it was 10 years ago, what will Pattaya be like in ten years > who knows? But it may well have exhausted its current business model, its reinvented itself before, trouble is they are running out of potential customers & not cheap as it once was.

To define "survive" - it will remain a functioning city, in what form I have no idea, I never foresaw the influx of Russians in the nineties, I never foresaw the influx of Chinese and certainly never expected the Indians to be relevant to the cities prosperity, time will tell ???? 

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

If Thailand went into deep recession, the Baht would collapse and Pattaya would flourish like never before.

You are banking on the Thai baht collapsing so much that Thailand could compete with Vietnam.

 

Vietnam offers 25 baht beers in an air conditioned bar that is the equivalent of a gentleman's club in Thailand, versus 80 or 90 or 100 baht beers in a beer bar with a tin roof here.  

 

Would a collapsed baht be enough to lure the punters back? 

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

You are banking on the Thai baht collapsing so much that Thailand could compete with Vietnam.

 

Vietnam offers 25 baht beers in an air conditioned bar that is the equivalent of a gentleman's club in Thailand, versus 80 or 90 or 100 baht beers in a beer bar with a tin roof here.  

 

Would a collapsed baht be enough to lure the punters back? 

If you are talking about the entertainment scene (which we are) Pattaya has a lot more going for it than Saigon....except the price of beer. So yes, they'd come back in their droves.

[Leaver]

16 minutes ago, CGW said:

Your dreaming of Utopia! nice thought but after all these years of greed and unregulated building & total lack of concern of interest Pattaya is never going to change! too much off a cash cow that a "few" profit from, it could have been different, but there is no going back in time, there was an opportunity for change when the military got involved a few years back, they gave their blessing to the current ruling family! doubt that chance will come around again. There is no will in the higher echelons for change!

No doubt there will be more derelict buildings in the future, be interesting to see what transpires, look at lower Sukhumvit in Bangkok, completely different place to what it was 10 years ago, what will Pattaya be like in ten years > who knows? But it may well have exhausted its current business model, its reinvented itself before, trouble is they are running out of potential customers & not cheap as it once was.

To define "survive" - it will remain a functioning city, in what form I have no idea, I never foresaw the influx of Russians in the nineties, I never foresaw the influx of Chinese and certainly never expected the Indians to be relevant to the cities prosperity, time will tell ???? 

As I have said before, this current generation of Thai's will have to explain to their grandchildren how they managed to mess it all up. 

 

Same as the Nokia phone company.  It had a huge market share, and went broke. 

[Leaver]

9 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

If you are talking about the entertainment scene (which we are) Pattaya has a lot more going for it than Saigon....except the price of beer. So yes, they'd come back in their droves.

What part of the entertainment scene are you talking about?

 

Would you consider a clean beach, and ocean water, entertainment by day? 

 

Are you suggesting that Pattaya could survive on selling sex alone? 

 

 

[DannyCarlton]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

What part of the entertainment scene are you talking about?

 

Would you consider a clean beach, and ocean water, entertainment by day? 

 

Are you suggesting that Pattaya could survive on selling sex alone? 

 

 

It flourished on that alone for the last 30 years.

[CGW]

13 minutes ago, Leaver said:

As I have said before, this current generation of Thai's will have to explain to their grandchildren how they managed to mess it all up.

Be no explaining to be done in the area where I now live, they are poor and have always been poor, sure in some areas the young and Isan mothers have earned minimum wage in the cities and have been able to send home a pittance to maintain the poverty, the "rich" who have made the serious money will just move onto the next venture. "Why are we poor" the answer will be "because we always have been" going to be no change there!

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

It flourished on that alone for the last 30 years.

But isn't that the point?

 

Sex put Pattaya on the global tourist map,  They thought no other place could take that market away from them, so they got greedy with it.  Thai landlords hiked up rents, so now beer is 80, 90 or 100 baht, for example. 

 

All the Thai's involved sat back, did nothing, and got rich. 

 

They took their eye off the ball, and failed to acknowledge potential competitors.

 

Now, the place has fallen out of favor, and not just because of the strong baht.  There's visa laws and the "farang tax" on just about everything farang consume. 

 

Nokia did the same thing, and went broke. 

[Leaver]

4 minutes ago, CGW said:

the "rich" who have made the serious money will just move onto the next venture.

And what venture may that be, in a tourism industry only attracting zero baht tourists, now, and into the future?

 

The super wealthy Thai's  don't really care, but there are reasonably wealthy Thai's that are exposed, to some degree, to their investment in the tourism industry here.  These are the ones voicing their concern now. 

[CGW]

41 minutes ago, Leaver said:

but there are reasonably wealthy Thai's that are exposed, to some degree, to their investment in the tourism industry here.  These are the ones voicing their concern now. 

When have the "super wealthy" ever given a dam anywhere in the world about anybody but themselves and their interests, the ones that will lose out! they don't care, they will suck up their assets for one cent on the dollar on loans that they made to them with money that only exists on paper, they made the rules, they own the banks & want to own everything! So far the plan is working for them, the social divide continues to grow worldwide!

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

But isn't that the point?

 

Sex put Pattaya on the global tourist map,  They thought no other place could take that market away from them, so they got greedy with it.  Thai landlords hiked up rents, so now beer is 80, 90 or 100 baht, for example. 

 

All the Thai's involved sat back, did nothing, and got rich. 

 

They took their eye off the ball, and failed to acknowledge potential competitors.

 

Now, the place has fallen out of favor, and not just because of the strong baht.  There's visa laws and the "farang tax" on just about everything farang consume. 

 

Nokia did the same thing, and went broke. 

Actually Nokia didn't go broke, they flogged off the spoiled parts to Microsoft. Same as Thailand flogging off remnants of Pattaya to Chinese.

[Leaver]

13 minutes ago, CGW said:

When have the "super wealthy" ever given a dam anywhere in the world about anybody but themselves and their interests, the ones that will lose out! they don't care, they will suck up their assets for one cent on the dollar on loans that they made to them with money that only exists on paper, they made the rules, they own the banks & want to own everything! So far the plan is working for them, the social divide continues to grow worldwide!

I completely agree with your assessment. 

 

It's possible Thai banks are are overleveraged. 

 

Interesting times ahead.

[Leaver]

13 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Actually Nokia didn't go broke, they flogged off the spoiled parts to Microsoft. Same as Thailand flogging off remnants of Pattaya to Chinese.

No need to flog off anything if you are still profitable.

[DannyCarlton]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

There's visa laws and the "farang tax" on just about everything farang consume. 

Changes in visa laws don't affect 2 week tourists.

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

Changes in visa laws don't affect 2 week tourists.

Expats contribute to the local economy as well, particularly in the housing market, and support to an extended family in Issan. 

[CGW]

28 minutes ago, Leaver said:

It's possible Thai banks are are overleveraged. 

There not! they learned their lesson in 97 - surprisingly! 

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, CGW said:

There not! they learned their lesson in 97 - surprisingly! 

Can their audits be relied upon?

 

I know two Thai's working in legitimate jobs here, and one has basically handed back their house to the bank and walked away, and the other is close to defaulting on their car loan, and no, neither of them have asked me for money. 

[balo]

10 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I had not been for awhile seems they jacked up the prices recently. A cold coffee 130 b and not even freshly made. Shameful.

Looks like it , I paid 100 baht for a black coffee, now its 110 . And thats a small cup .  As you just said, shameful.  
I remember back in 2012 I paid 75 baht for the same cup.  Taxi and hotel prices stay more or less the same,  but coffee?  Just forget the big chains, they must be in control of some rich Thai owners who couldn't care less about adjusting to the market. 


    
 

[Beggar]

On 1/15/2020 at 3:25 PM, hellohello123 said:

Whats the Baht Bus Scam?

 

Still have no idea why some baht buses half full drive past and refuse to pick people up

Often they have a special ride - the passengers paid for the whole Baht bus. 

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

It flourished on that alone for the last 30 years.

I suggest not, else I might have stayed in Bangkok. Adding the Beach to the mix really improved things, and whizzing about on a bike was fun. Small town atmosphere was attractive too. 

[daveAustin]

16 hours ago, Traubert said:

Cringe..........

 

Top arch comment and totally deserving of the 'original comment of the week' award.

Thanks, I thought it was pretty on-point too... though not being a sad F spending every minute on TV slurping up the tripe, forgive me for being remiss.  

[mike787]

Pattaya is fine, nothing wrong in my opinion.  It's a great place. 

[pattayadgw]

Send in a 20+ D-10 bulldozers.... THAT WOULD BE A GOOD START!!!

[micmichd]

4 hours ago, mike787 said:

Pattaya is fine, nothing wrong in my opinion.  It's a great place. 

Yes, but something is missing: the integration of Western social health systems with the Universal Health Care system in Thailand. 

If they want Pattaya to become a hub for medicine, they should make medical care affordable. It can't be true that foreigners get repatriated to the West (where the cost for medical treatment is much higher than in Thailand) just because they don't have private health insurances (which would commonly refuse to pay in cases of pre-existing conditions anyway)  

 

Banglamung Hospital in North Pattaya is a good public hospital even by Western standards, so they could start comparative social medical analytics here. 

Edited January 18, 2020 by micmichd

[bodymassagemyfriend]

Inflation is a serious issue they ain't gonna fix.

When i came first came here you could have a new  100 sqm condo for 1-2 million bhat.

Now you get 20 sqm. With the VISA issues .

 

Pattaya now has no purpose , whatever you do you have to be the best at what you are doing. Las Vegas is best for Casinons,

if Pattaya is whoreland it has to be the best for this , if its 'family' ressort well beaches are far from beeing the best around.

As of today , Pattaya is a bit of everything so there is no actual selling point. 

[DannyCarlton]

55 minutes ago, bodymassagemyfriend said:

if Pattaya is whoreland it has to be the best for this

And isn't it? Where's the best?

[mike787]

26 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

And isn't it? Where's the best?

Answer=Walking street BEST!  Meet up with me and my mates for some beers at "Skyfall'...