Action needed now to save "filthy, dangerous, rip-off, vice ridden" Pattaya, says watchdog

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes, obviously thanks.

I'm not a cheap charlie but always booked a good hotel in that area when I holidayed here. Location, location, location.

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, yogi100 said:

13 hours ago, NanLaew said:

When you've gotten down from your high and misinformed horse, go and check on Thailand's unemployment rate and get back to us, ok?

Instead of expecting others to trawl through the internet why don't you check it yourself and then you get back us, OK.

 

You've got the internet in front of you and a bright fellow such as yourself would obviously know where to find the relevant information.

 

You can copy and paste it if it's easier for you.

But I am not the member making false assertions about Thailand's official unemployment rate and how much prostitution with foreigners contributes to Isaan's GDP. Far be it from me to break sweat trying to dispel the incorrect and outdated notions of a fellow member.

 

7 hours ago, yogi100 said:

If I had a wife I'd never take her there. It'd be like taking coals to Newcastle! 

 

It's a single man's paradise. Or it was before the exchange rates got out of control. It's still affordable if you keep out of the GGBs, many of them have apparently last the plot.

... like yourself.

 

7 hours ago, mikebell said:

Sorry Nan, I agree with Bobin.  Thai males are cosseted by their mummies and grandmothers from birth.  The girls are treated as 2nd class citizens.  They are then left holding the baby literally when the Thai male moves on to fresher pastures.  The girl has to seek employment which can support a baby (or 2) + grandparents.  Having no qualifications or connections they are left with Hobson's Choice: the Vice trade or starve, thanks to a lack of social services to protect the vulnerable. (The kids.) If Thai men were forced to pay maintenance it would be a different story.

This belief would suggest that the ageing foreign lothario's increasingly loud protestations about the Pattaya bars lacking in any sort of pleasant company and being totally bereft of any demimondaines worth paying for bedtime interest as unfounded and fallacious.

 

The lack of any Thai social security net is undeniable but the many-fold increase over the past 10 or 15 years of legitimate employment opportunities in manufacturing and the burgeoning (non-sexual) service industries isn't. There are more young northeastern Thai ladies getting off buses in the huge dormitory towns that serve the industrial estates and factories behind the eastern seaboard than there are getting off at the 409 VIP bus station on Sukhumvit.

 

[bagheera65]

The thing that drive me crazy with Pattaya is that it is supposed to be a sea shore town and not only the beaches are not clean ( to stay polite ) but no one want to go to swim in the sea because the water is so polluted that it is now dangerous. It's just insane, it's like if Cannes ( the famous town on French Riviera where happen the Cannes Film Festival ) had beaches so dirty that no one would go on them and the impossibility to swim in the sea because of the pollution. It would be insane! 

Pattaya city hall could get rid easily of the issue of dirty beaches easily - just take 20/30 Thai people, each of them with a big empty trash bag, put them all in line ( from the top of the beach to the sea ) EACH day at 7 am, and tell them "now  you just walk up to the end of the beach and you pick up EVERY trash you see on the beach". And you do the same with any other beach with others people, and you'll get the job done and resolve the trash on the beach problem. And you give to them a salary enough comfortable so they'll be happy to do it. Now, for the sea water quality it's a much bigger problem that they won't resolve anytime soon, in the meantime they could install showers to refresh yourself when you're too hot ( as you can't go in the sea ) all along the beaches. Both measures are not expensive ( in terms of city budget ) and the row of people cleaning the beaches could start by TOMORROW if they wanted!

Edited January 16, 2020 by bagheera65

[DrTuner]

4 minutes ago, bagheera65 said:

The thing that drive me crazy with Pattaya is that it is supposed to be a sea shore town and not only the beaches are not clean ( to stay polite ) but no one want to go to swim in the sea because the water is so polluted that it is now dangerous.

The fact of having a road between the beach and the shops/bars/hotels already makes it pretty useless. 

[bagheera65]

Yes, Pattaya is the Sodom and Gommorah that we all know, even those who have never been there, HOWEVER there is at least ONE thing truly beautiful and not-to-be-missed at Pattaya north, and it's the Sanctuary of Truth, the incredible tribute to different Asian religions, all in teak wood with hundred of teak wood sculpted figures, always in construction since 30 years and not finished yet - just like Gaudi Cathedral in Barcelona. I always say to friends " don't go to Pattaya, but if it happen that you drive nearby, or on your way to Koh Chang, ask the taxi to make a 2 hours stop at the Sanctuary of Truth because it's stunning".

[bagheera65]

1 minute ago, DrTuner said:

The fact of having a road between the beach and the shops/bars/hotels already makes it pretty useless. 

It would  be better without it, i agree, but beach roads are common in almost ANY major seashore city in the world ( even Cannes that i was quoting has exactly the same ) and it's not the problem, except if they were endless traffic jam on it which would pollute even more the air, but it is not the case. Cleanliness IS the problem.

[yogi100]

8 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

But I am not the member making false assertions about Thailand's official unemployment rate and how much prostitution with foreigners contributes to Isaan's GDP. Far be it from me to break sweat trying to dispel the incorrect and outdated notions of a fellow member.

 

... like yourself.

 

 

 

I spoke to a Thai woman today who's a hairdresser in Pattaya. She mainly gets her living doing the girls hair who work the bars. It's the worst high season she's ever known it and she's been in the same salon for nearly 20 years.

 

She also said factories are laying off people all over Thailand. They can't sell their products because the Baht is too expensive.

 

So who knows what are false assertions about Thailand's official unemployment rate and what is the true rate. I'd take the word of a lady who works at the sharp end rather than the word of some politician who claims that the economy is booming because he wants to 'save face'.

 

She's got a mobile phone and keeps in touch with her friends and family who tell her what the situation is in their parts of Thailand

[johng]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

You're the one who needs to look it up, no one from any government agency has ever specifically stated that "there is no prostitution in Pattaya".

 

Saying that they "did not see evidence of prostitution" when they walked Walking Street is not saying that "there is no prostitution in Pattaya"!

here I looked it up for you..   thanks x 3

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/pattaya/phew-no-prostitutes-in-pattayas-walking-street-police

 

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/travel/article/3016969/no-more-prostitutes-pattayas-walking-street

 

 

[micmichd]

41 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

But I am not the member making false assertions about Thailand's official unemployment rate and how much prostitution with foreigners contributes to Isaan's GDP. Far be it from me to break sweat trying to dispel the incorrect and outdated notions of a fellow member.

 

... like yourself.

 

This belief would suggest that the ageing foreign lothario's increasingly loud protestations about the Pattaya bars lacking in any sort of pleasant company and being totally bereft of any demimondaines worth paying for bedtime interest as unfounded and fallacious.

 

The lack of any Thai social security net is undeniable but the many-fold increase over the past 10 or 15 years of legitimate employment opportunities in manufacturing and the burgeoning (non-sexual) service industries isn't. There are more young northeastern Thai ladies getting off buses in the huge dormitory towns that serve the industrial estates and factories behind the eastern seaboard than there are getting off at the 409 VIP bus station on Sukhumvit.

 

Yes. Not many expats seem to be aware that the small village they know as Pattaya has now become the heart of the Eastern Economic Corridor with all kinds of jobs outside the entertainment industry. 

[Leaver]

"Action need now" - NO.  Action was needed 15 years ago.  It's too late "now." 

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

"Action need now" - NO.  Action was needed 15 years ago.  It's too late "now." 

There is no action needed now everything is as it was if not better. It's just the Baht needs weakening/GBP strenghtening. One figure that the TAT figures don't take into account is length of stay of tourists. I know several people who used to visit for 4 weeks at a time. Due to the strength of the baht and rising prices here, they now only stay for 2 weeks, some only one. A big factor in giving the appearance of less tourists.

[spidermike007]

They will continue to get more Indian tourists. But, as with the vast majority of Chinese, it will be lower class, and lower middle class tourists. Thailand just cannot attract higher end tourists anymore. The focus on quantity over quality will continue to erode the nation on countless levels. More is rarely better. It just lowers the quality of life for nearly everyone, creates more congestion, more smog, more traffic, longer lines at immigration, and makes life difficult, especially in the big cities. 

 

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists, and go for quality over quantity. 

 

The very first thing would be to repeal the anti farang wine bill, that was passed by a few very corrupt senators way back when, to protect an anemic and truly pathetic local wine industry. They are losing billions of dollars a year in revenue, that could be had from a 100% wine duty, instead of over 300%. 

 

Same applies to luxury tax. If it were reasonable, Thailand would be able to attract rich tourists from around the world, who want to spend $5,000 or more on luxury goods, while on vacation. Will they buy a Prada handbag here for $14,000, that costs $5,000 in Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, London, New York, Paris, Rome, Milan, Monaco, Prague, Moscow, Istanbul, or Dubai? Of course not. What will they do? They will choose any one of those spots, and others for vacation, and Thailand will never even be discussed. 

 

Rich tourists like to spend money when they travel. And they cannot do that here, as they do not like getting taken for a ride. Most wealthy people are smart with their money. Thailand could be making a fortune on a 25% luxury tax. Instead of the 100% of more, which discourages most people from buying. How many people do you see in the luxury stores here? They are almost always completely empty. Inane. Beyond inane.

 

Sorry to say, but the high spending tourists are lost for good. They WILL NOT come back to Thailand, for a dozen different reasons. And places like Pattaya will continue to go downhill.

 

Does the term "very, very worn out and filthy dishrag" come to mind? 

Edited January 16, 2020 by spidermike007

[DannyCarlton]

Just now, spidermike007 said:

The very first thing would be to repeal the anti farang wine bill

555 You don't give up, do you?

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

There is no action needed now everything is as it was if not better. It's just the Baht needs weakening/GBP strenghtening. One figure that the TAT figures don't take into account is length of stay of tourists. I know several people who used to visit for 4 weeks at a time. Due to the strength of the baht and rising prices here, they now only stay for 2 weeks, some only one. A big factor in giving the appearance of less tourists.

I disagree.  Nothing is as it was.

 

just look at all the coach buses here now.  Did you see them 5 years ago????

 

Yes, I agree, the strong baht is playing a big part in the right here and now, but the writing has been on the wall for some years, 

 

Thailand was always heading in the direction in which it was positioning itself as a more expensive tourists destination in the region, but without any improvements to infrastructure to justify considerably higher prices than neighboring countries. 

 

Geez, decades on, and taxis still don't use meters here, and the jet ski scam is still going, just to name a couple of things.  

 

Meanwhile, neighboring countries are building it bigger, better, safer, and for cheaper. 

 

I've said it before, in many ways, the Thai tourism industry is heading down the path of the Nokia phone company.  They had huge market share, didn't think they had to compete, and ultimately went broke. 

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

I disagree.  Nothing is as it was.

 

just look at all the coach buses here now.  Did you see them 5 years ago????

 

Yes, I agree, the strong baht is playing a big part in the right here and now, but the writing has been on the wall for some years, 

 

Thailand was always heading in the direction in which it was positioning itself as a more expensive tourists destination in the region, but without any improvements to infrastructure to justify considerably higher prices than neighboring countries. 

 

Geez, decades on, and taxis still don't use meters here, and the jet ski scam is still going, just to name a couple of things.  

 

Meanwhile, neighboring countries are building it bigger, better, safer, and for cheaper. 

 

I've said it before, in many ways, the Thai tourism industry is heading down the path of the Nokia phone company.  They had huge market share, didn't think they had to compete, and ultimately went broke. 

I don't know of anyone who doesen't come to Pattaya anymore because of the coaches. You could argue that more coaches means more tourists.

 

It was always higher priced than neighbouring countries and Pattaya is still the cheapest major resort in Thailand. As you said, taxis have never used meters here and the jet ski scam is but a shadow of it's former self, if not eradicated completely.

 

Neighbouring countries are building bigger better? Like Cambodia you mean? They are suffering from a lack of ferangs (berangs) even more than Thailand due to the total swamping of the tourist areas by the Chinese. Sianoukville used to be a great place to chill for a few days, completely destroyed now.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

[CGW]

1 hour ago, bagheera65 said:

Yes, Pattaya is the Sodom and Gommorah that we all know, even those who have never been there, HOWEVER there is at least ONE thing truly beautiful and not-to-be-missed at Pattaya north, and it's the Sanctuary of Truth, the incredible tribute to different Asian religions, all in teak wood with hundred of teak wood sculpted figures, always in construction since 30 years and not finished yet - just like Gaudi Cathedral in Barcelona. I always say to friends " don't go to Pattaya, but if it happen that you drive nearby, or on your way to Koh Chang, ask the taxi to make a 2 hours stop at the Sanctuary of Truth because it's stunning".

The Sanctuary of truth is ok, worth a visit (I lived beside there from 97-99) & used to look in regularly long before it was open to the public, but you are omitting many other areas of Pattaya that are good, what about the 30 world class golf courses etc, etc.

There is a lot more to Pattaya than the square mile around beach Road that so many seem to have difficulty getting away from.

[Leaver]

4 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

I don't know of anyone who doesen't come to Pattaya anymore because of the coaches.

 

It's not about the buses themselves, the buses just indicate that the majority of tourists her now are not indepedent tourists, but cheap package holiday tourists.  Basically, zero baht tourists.

 

6 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

It was always higher priced than neighbouring countries

 

And what extra infrastructure did you get for these higher prices?

 

7 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Neighbouring countries are building bigger better? Like Cambodia you mean? They are suffering from a lack of ferangs (berangs)

 

With about 70 licensed casinos, yes, they are suffering from a lack of farangs, but are not suffering from gambling revenue.  Yet, not a casino on the horizon for Thailand.  Once again, Thailand slipping behind the times.

 

 

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, CGW said:

There is a lot more to Pattaya than the square mile around beach Road that so many seem to have difficulty getting away from.

Sure, but it's this area that generates the most revenue. If it falls out of favor, then your golf courses will go broke also. 

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

With about 70 licensed casinos, yes, they are suffering from a lack of farangs, but are not suffering from gambling revenue.  Yet, not a casino on the horizon for Thailand.  Once again, Thailand slipping behind the times.

 

Thankfully. The casinos make their money from online gambling/money laundering. Very little of the money stays in Cambodia.

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Thankfully. The casinos make their money from online gambling/money laundering. Very little of the money stays in Cambodia.

The illegal casinos do the online thing.  The 70 odd licensed casinos are the real deal.  The provide a lot of employment to Khmer.

 

Sure, money goes back to China, but then again, so do the profits from Chinese businesses here, set up for Chinese customers.  Geez, they even built a fake temple here to take them to.  ????

 

As for casinos in Vietnam, well, take a look. 

 

https://thegrandhotram.com/

[Just Weird]

47 minutes ago, johng said:

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

You're the one who needs to look it up, no one from any government agency has ever specifically stated that "there is no prostitution in Pattaya".

 

Saying that they "did not see evidence of prostitution" when they walked Walking Street is not saying that "there is no prostitution in Pattaya"!

here I looked it up for you..   thanks x 3

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/pattaya/phew-no-prostitutes-in-pattayas-walking-street-police

 

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/travel/article/3016969/no-more-prostitutes-pattayas-walking-street

 

 

Bear in mind my comment in which I disagreed with the poster who said this, specifically...

"no one from any government agency has ever specifically stated that "there is no prostitution in Pattaya", you have found the wrong links.  Neither I, nor the poster I responded to, said anything about Walking Street.

 

 

"...police have done a walk-thru inspection of Pattaya’s red light district, Walking Street. They were glad to report that there was no prostitution being conducted in the area".

So they did not say that there was no prostitution in Pattaya.

 

"... conducted an inspection of the city’s Walking Street and “were glad to report there was no prostitution in the area”.

So, again, they did not say that there was no prostitution in Pattaya.

 

"Police checks on Pattaya's famed red light center of Walking Street found absolutely no evidence of prostitution.

So, yet again, they did not say that there was no prostitution in Pattaya.

 

Thanks, X 3.

 

[DannyCarlton]

6 minutes ago, Leaver said:

The illegal casinos do the online thing.  The 70 odd licensed casinos are the real deal.  The provide a lot of employment to Khmer.

 

Sure, money goes back to China, but then again, so do the profits from Chinese businesses here, set up for Chinese customers.  Geez, they even built a fake temple here to take them to.  ????

 

As for casinos in Vietnam, well, take a look. 

 

https://thegrandhotram.com/

 

[Leaver]

6 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

 

There's also a crackdown on prostitution in Thailand as well, causing a mass exodus of tourists.  ????

 

Seriously though, I haven't been to Sihanoukville in a long time.  However, I was in Phnom Penh about 6 months ago and Nga World was very very busy, including the shops.

 

I didn't play, but observed.  Limo's constantly pulling up with Chinese receiving the red carpet treatment.  Some big chips being played on the tables. 

 

There is no argument.  Thailand DOES NOT offer gambling to tourists, and their competitors do. 

 

Even 1 Riel or 1 Vietnamese Dong of profit, is one more than Thailand is making, because they do not offer casinos for gambling as an activity for tourists.

[CGW]

35 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Sure, but it's this area that generates the most revenue. If it falls out of favor, then your golf courses will go broke also. 

Disagree with that, another vastly over looked fact with Pattaya is that it is in the centre of the Eastern Seaboard industrial zone, if Pattaya never saw another tourist the city would still survive and indeed prosper in some areas.

Pattaya has also always been a weekend retreat for Bankokians, long before mass tourism arrived, they will always continue visiting.

[DannyCarlton]

3 minutes ago, Leaver said:

There's also a crackdown on prostitution in Thailand as well, causing a mass exodus of tourists.  ????

 

Seriously though, I haven't been to Sihanoukville in a long time.  However, I was in Phnom Penh about 6 months ago and Nga World was very very busy, including the shops.

 

I didn't play, but observed.  Limo's constantly pulling up with Chinese receiving the red carpet treatment.  Some big chips being played on the tables. 

 

There is no argument.  Thailand DOES NOT offer gambling to tourists, and their competitors do. 

 

Even 1 Riel or 1 Vietnamese Dong of profit, is one more than Thailand is making, because they do not offer casinos for gambling as an activity for tourists.

Chinese owned and run cainos for Chinese tourists. Cause lots of problems and very little revenue for the host country. Hopefully, Thailand will never go down that route.

[Leaver]

7 minutes ago, CGW said:

Disagree with that, another vastly over looked fact with Pattaya is that it is in the centre of the Eastern Seaboard industrial zone, if Pattaya never saw another tourist the city would still survive and indeed prosper in some areas.

Pattaya has also always been a weekend retreat for Bankokians, long before mass tourism arrived, they will always continue visiting.

You're joking.  Right?

 

So, lose your tourists, kick out your expats, because of long term visas criteria, but Pattaya will survive because Bangkokian come to Pattaya for 1, possibly 2 nights of a week. 

 

Are you serious?

 

You do know a lot of those factories are closing, don't you?

 

Some lite reading for you.

 

https://pattayaone.news/1300-thai-factories-up-for-sale/

 

"There were 1,339 factories with 34,569 employees and a total investment of approximately Bt56.9 billion registered for sale or out of business in the first 10 months of 2019, according to the Industry Ministry."

 

Tyre factory closed in Rayong.

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/four-hundred-made-redundant-as-tyre-factory-in-eastern-thailand-shuts-down

 

 

[Leaver]

13 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Chinese owned and run cainos for Chinese tourists. Cause lots of problems and very little revenue for the host country. Hopefully, Thailand will never go down that route.

They are already down that route, just with tourism, not casinos.

 

ZERO BAHT TOURISTS. 

 

Geez, they even daily rent condo's so they can cook their own meals in a kitchen. 

[CGW]

19 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Are you serious?

Yes ???? but ignore my POV, you are obviously the more knowledgeable than I.

I lived in Pattaya starting in 97 when there were very few tourists, still survived! 

Thailand's exports have increased every year for many years and continue to do so, but you appear to be bound and determined to paint a picture of gloom and doom for all things Thai!

 

[Blue Mango]

On 1/15/2020 at 9:46 AM, Bugsy777 said:

The ladyboys can play pool with you, drink with you, funny as f***. Sure, they try and get a little more but if you're silly enough, you deserve it. Whenever it's time to move on I just politely explain that, yes they look beautiful, but I'm into girls.

Just curious - If you're into girls why would you be playing pool with ladyboys instead of with girls? 

And I disagree about LBs being beautiful. To me they just look like LBs ????

[DannyCarlton]

4 minutes ago, Blue Mango said:

Just curious - If you're into girls why would you be playing pool with ladyboys instead of with girls? 

And I disagree about LBs being beautiful. To me they just look like LBs ????

Better pool players and great fun.