TM-87 rejected at Jomtien today

[smedly]

38 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Not at least 400k always,7 months and then top it up to 800k again 2 months before next extension.

seriously dude give it a rest - you are just trolling now

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

I would never use an agent unless i was really desperate. Basically you are entering into an illegal act to get your visa and then they have you by the balls. In the future they can, rightly, say your visa is invalid or demand any sum to overlook your illegality.

It depends on whether the agent is operating legally or illegally. As I had everything according to Immigration requirements for each extension, I assume they were legal.

Last year, I did the extension without the agent. Took a bit longer, but no-one mentioned going back to the agent.

Your point is valid for agents acting illegally on an applicants behalf.

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, Don Mega said:

I missed that bit, which post is it ?

Really?

i recomand you to read again quietly the post 23 from the OP on page 2 of this topic

[Don Mega]

15 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Really?

i recomand you to read again quietly the post 23 from the OP on page 2 of this topic

So what your saying is the service from the Agent should be free but as they are charging it is corruption...

 

Idiot logic at its finest right there !!

[kingofthemountain]

3 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

So what your saying is the service from the Agent should be free but as they are charging it is corruption...

 

Idiot logic at its finest right there !!

I can find the post for you, and i did it

but i can not read it for you

nor i can help you to understand what you read

so i let you with your own wrong conclusion

sorry  and have a nice day

Edited January 16, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, britishjohn said:

So if you need a work permit to manage an investment, you would also need one if you wanted to invest in shares on the Thai stock exchange. Utterly ridiculous !

Beginning to sound like I need one to sell my car!

[Don Mega]

2 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

I can find the post for you, and i did it

but i can not read it for you

nor i can help you to understand what you read

so i let you with your own wrong conclusion

sorry  and have a nice day

Just trying to understand what you are babbling on about.

 

Thanks for your time.

[kingofthemountain]

2 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Just trying to understand what you are babbling on about.

 

Thanks for your time.

you are welcome

As you are obviously the only one who does not understand me I am rather reassured

[Don Mega]

Just now, kingofthemountain said:

you are welcome

As you are obviously the only one who does not understand me I am rather reassured

Your are correct, I do not understand how the act of receiving payment for services rendered is corruption, Even more so when the cost of the service was known up front.

[kingofthemountain]

6 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Your are correct, I do not understand how the act of receiving payment for services rendered is corruption, Even more so when the cost of the service was known up front.

Then you can easily explain to me how the OP 

with this actual paperwork have a denial at his demand by the Immigration office

BUt if the OP give 20 000 at an agent, this agent can have a success with exactly the

same paperwork at the same immigration office and for the same demand?

What is what? Some magic? How it works exactly in a perfectly legal

way with no bribes at all paid to the immigratoin office by the agent?

I can't wait to be enlightened by your knowledge on this subject.

Are you by any chance an agent yourself?

[BritTim]

9 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Your are correct, I do not understand how the act of receiving payment for services rendered is corruption, Even more so when the cost of the service was known up front.

In principle, I do not believe the paying of an agent involves corruption. However, if the agent is paying Immigration to apply different rules than would be the case otherwise, then the agent is engaged in corruption. If you are aware of the agent's corruption, it could be argued that you are encouraging it, and are thus a co-conspirator.

[Don Mega]

16 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Then you can easily explain to me how the OP 

with this actual paperwork have a denial at his demand by the Immigration office

BUt if the OP give 20 000 at an agent, this agent can have a success with exactly the

same paperwork at the same immigration office and for the same demand?

What is what? Some magic? How it works exactly in a perfectly legal

way with no bribes at all paid to the immigratoin office by the agent?

I can't wait to be enlightened by your knowledge on this subject.

Are you by any chance an agent yourself?

Bribes, When did that come into it ?

[kingofthemountain]

7 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Bribes, When did that come into it ?

Well it seems you can't answer to my very simple question?

I wonder why i am not really surprised.....

Edited January 16, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[Matzzon]

On 1/15/2020 at 7:29 AM, OZinPattaya said:

Any suggestions other than me moving to Vietnam and saying goodbye to Thailand?

No.

[Don Mega]

23 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Well it seems you can't answer to my very simple question?

I wonder why i am not really surprised.....

Sorry, what was your question ?

[moe666]

On 1/15/2020 at 3:55 PM, ubonjoe said:

Not the same in the case mentioned in this topic. Apparently the owner is jus renting out his condo that is certainly not the same a owning several properties as a business.

How do you know he doesn't have 20

[Chrysaora]

On 1/15/2020 at 1:29 PM, OZinPattaya said:

Any suggestions other than me moving to Vietnam and saying goodbye to Thailand?

Look at Malaysia.  Clean streets, good food, and friendly to us.

[IraqRon]

just leave asap.  why put up with this bs, just to stay in thai.

 

[britishjohn]

3 hours ago, Chrysaora said:

Look at Malaysia.  Clean streets, good food, and friendly to us.

also English speaking and no tax on foreign source income.

Penang would be my choice. Or should I say will be....

[Max69xl]

26 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

also English speaking and no tax on foreign source income.

Penang would be my choice. Or should I say will be....

Do you work or are you retired? Do you pay tax in Thailand?

[Max69xl]

3 hours ago, Chrysaora said:

Look at Malaysia.  Clean streets, good food, and friendly to us.

If you don't like thai food why come here in the first place? There are so many countries to choose from.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Max69xl

[Kevbo]

On 1/15/2020 at 11:46 AM, OZinPattaya said:

Yes, why is it every time I have a problem with an IO it is always some 30-50 year old, unattractive, sourpuss of a harpy? Where do they find these women? There must be a repository somewhere for aging Thai women who have been cheated on by western men, and immigration draws from this dubious pool almost exclusively for its officers. I thought I got luck today as a young affable looking male was working the visa conversion desk. Then my number was drawn and this young man escorted me straight into a back room where the scariest female Thai I've ever seen awaited me. 

Was that room 7 by any chance ?

 

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, moe666 said:

How do you know he doesn't have 20

If he had that many, I think he would be able to provide the correct documents for his tenants. 

[Gweiloman]

5 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

If you don't like thai food why come here in the first place? There are so many countries to choose from.

Lots of farangs on TVF that don’t eat Thai food. Easy to identify. They are the ones who say that food in Europe is as cheap as in Thailand. Because they only eat western food here. 

[britishjohn]

36 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Do you work or are you retired? Do you pay tax in Thailand?

I presume you're asking this because you want to point out that for retirees Thailand also has tax advantages. And indeed you'd be correct.

But not all countries are equal, and I believe Vietnam, which was the country mentioned, strictly speaking has a less beneficial tax system. 

 

[Orton Rd]

4 hours ago, IraqRon said:

just leave asap.  why put up with this bs, just to stay in thai.

 

Absolutely if it came down to having to pay a corrupt IO 20k or a visa agent about the same in illegal payments just for them to graciously do what they are meant to for nothing, then I would certainly be off. People have to have enough self respect not to lower themselves into the gutter with these fraudsters.

[Scouse123]

6 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Absolutely if it came down to having to pay a corrupt IO 20k or a visa agent about the same in illegal payments just for them to graciously do what they are meant to for nothing, then I would certainly be off. People have to have enough self respect not to lower themselves into the gutter with these fraudsters.

 

I think the majority using these ' agents ' can not fulfill the legal financial or medical or other requirements for extensions. That's why they use agents and then Immigration gets their pound of flesh. If you are open, above board and legal, an agent is usually not needed but you have to jump through some hoops.

 

From my understanding ( I haven't lived in Pattaya for 14 years now) Jomtien is particularly hard nosed enforcing regulations, sometimes legal but usually their own interpretations of the law to push you to an agent, especially using any means of an excuse, such as work permits for a foreigner renting out his condo, or the Thai owner of a condo won't do what is required for immigration etc etc.

 

While some worry about breaking free from these agents if they moved provinces and worried they would be in a never ending cycle of blackmail, that can only happen if they are not financially sound to be within the immigration rules.

 

If I had a temporary setback, I would probably use an agent that many others in that boat had used previously. I would then, when my circumstances improved and I had the necessary finances or cash in the bank, allow the extension to lapse, in my case , a retirement one. I would then leave and re-enter on a 30 day tourist and apply for a fresh Non-O, thus breaking the cycle of the agent or middle man.

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Scouse123

[britishjohn]

If I'm still here next year I'll consider switching to a Non O and use an agent to make sure it happens without a problem...

[Max69xl]

14 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

I think the majority using these ' agents ' can not fulfill the legal financial or medical or other requirements for extensions. That's why they use agents and then Immigration gets their pound of flesh. If you are open, above board and legal, an agent is usually not needed but you have to jump through some hoops.

 

From my understanding ( I haven't lived in Pattaya for 14 years now) Jomtien is particularly hard nosed enforcing regulations, sometimes legal but usually their own interpretations of the law to push you to an agent, especially using any means of an excuse, such as work permits for a foreigner renting out his condo, or the Thai owner of a condo won't do what is required for immigration etc etc.

 

While some worry about breaking free from these agents if they moved provinces and worried they would be in a never ending cycle of blackmail, that can only happen if they are not financially sound to be within the immigration rules.

 

If I had a temporary setback, I would probably use an agent that many others in that boat had used previously. I would then, when my circumstances improved and I had the necessary finances or cash in the bank, allow the extension to lapse, in my case , a retirement one. I would then leave and re-enter on a 30 day tourist and apply for a fresh Non-O, thus breaking the cycle of the agent or middle man.

 

 

 

"Jomtien is particularly hard nosed enforcing regulations, sometimes legal but usually their own interpretations of the law"

Where did you get that bs from? Jomtien Immigration have never been real tough about rules and regulations compared to several other offices in Thailand. The TM30 reporting for example isn't really enforced here unless you come back from abroad,but then you have 72 hours instead of the normal 24. The 90 days reports routine is like a "drive through" without the TM47. Showing the money in the bank after 90 days after the 1 year extension isn't that time consuming. It takes 30 seconds. 

There are new rules this year at several immigration offices (maybe every office) because of the new frequirements from early last year. 

Regarding foreigners being not allowed to put up a condo for rent while on a Non-O or Non-O-A extension, that's officially not allowed anywhere despite what people think. That's why foreigners use real estate agencies when they want to put up a condo for rent. Compared to CW in BKK and some offices out in the sticks I prefer Jomtien Immigration any day of the week,and I think most of the expats staying in Pattaya/Jomtien agrees. 

[Scouse123]

9 hours ago, Max69xl said:

"Jomtien is particularly hard nosed enforcing regulations, sometimes legal but usually their own interpretations of the law"

Where did you get that bs from? Jomtien Immigration have never been real tough about rules and regulations compared to several other offices in Thailand. The TM30 reporting for example isn't really enforced here unless you come back from abroad,but then you have 72 hours instead of the normal 24. The 90 days reports routine is like a "drive through" without the TM47. Showing the money in the bank after 90 days after the 1 year extension isn't that time consuming. It takes 30 seconds. 

There are new rules this year at several immigration offices (maybe every office) because of the new frequirements from early last year. 

Regarding foreigners being not allowed to put up a condo for rent while on a Non-O or Non-O-A extension, that's officially not allowed anywhere despite what people think. That's why foreigners use real estate agencies when they want to put up a condo for rent. Compared to CW in BKK and some offices out in the sticks I prefer Jomtien Immigration any day of the week,and I think most of the expats staying in Pattaya/Jomtien agrees. 

 

OK, I did point out I haven't lived there for many years in my post and was going off the reports from posters here of how they had been treated. It certainly wasn't easy going around 15-20 years ago down there, although back in those days there were less foreigners on long term stays. Strange really, those that were on legal stays were given a bit of a hard time but the border and visa runs thrived.

 

Also,these days, when there is a cash incentive, to push foreigners to the agents because of commissions to the IO, then it stands to reason in a country such as Thailand, with rampant corruption, that is the route they will take.

 

You are right on another point, some offices in the sticks are absolute pillocks, Sakon Nakhon for one! in my dealings anyway.

 

It has been quite a lot easier since Kalasin opened its own immigration offices. For how long , that is the question!

 

I